Does Marleau need a cup to be a hof player

[Rants Mulliniks]

These are always hard to judge. Some of what will get him consideration:

Likely Top 5 GP by end of year (Possibly 3rd if he plays next year)
Likely 28th G by end of year (Possibly 23rd if he plays next year)
Likely 53rd A by end of year (Possibly 43rd if he plays next year)
Likely 7th GWG by end of year (Possibly 4th if he plays next year)

One of those guys that's a maybe.

 

[trentmccleary]

Federko is statistically near the bottom of hall of fame standards, which you can see here: Bernie Federko Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Saying that he had 100-point seasons isn't terribly convincing when taking into account scoring rates in the 1980s. When you look at his numbers relative to league-wide context you will see that not only was he less productive than Marleau, but he was also so for a shorter amount of time.

In other words, if you think Federko is a worthy hall of famer then you have you see Marleau as a hall of famer as well. Ultimately it doesn't even matter if you do or not, because inductions of players like Federko have set the precedent and opened the door to the likes of Marleau into the hall.

Decade selected specifically to make them look best.

10 years
1979-1988 Federko = 5th in points, 2nd in assists and 10th in PPG.

2004-2014 Marleau = 16th in points, 5th in goals, 21st in PPG.

 

[trentmccleary]

640 goals is too many goals to keep out of the HOF.

When the best thing anybody could say about you during your peak is that you may be the 4th-5th best player on a good team... you're not a HOF calibre player.

 

[Goldenshark]

Marleau is the hockey player the Hall of Fame deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we’ll debate it, because he can take it, he’s not a hero, but a silent contributor, a watchful leader...a white, blue and teal knight.

 

[Sysreq]

So he is 133 games away from tying Howe for most games in league history. I think, if he can play the rest of this season, and stay healthy for 2 more, he will deserve to be in the HOF. I think having the record for most NHL games player is worthy of induction. He falls short, starts getting injured, then I would say no. God speed Patty, you only got a little ways left to go.

 

[Crow]

He needs a conn smythe.

 

[Dustin]

[QUOTE="GreatGonzo, post: 156845131, member: 121165" QUOTE]

He didn’t start getting that kind of talk until his move to Toronto, before that it was maybe mentioned but barely something to note.


Or maybe it's getting more attention now because he gets closer and closer to retirement every year. Toronto fans know Marleau is a shark.

Besides the reason we're having this conversation is because he's a tweener. No one is talking about Joe Thornton because he's a guaranteed HOFer. No one is talking about Mason Raymond because he's not. Marleau's case is different.

 

[HawkNut]

I would induct him even without a Cup.

 

[Eisen]

Does marleau need a cup to be a hof player? Is he one already? Or even with a cup is he still borderline?

As it stands

39 Years old
Has 1 year left on his contract
21 Seasons
1633 GP
548 G 29th All time
610 A
1158 Pts 53rd All time
.71 Career PPG

Playoff

184 GP
72 Goals
53 Assists
125 Pts


0 Awards
Finished top 10 in goals twice
Needs 135 More games to be #1 in games played
2 80+ pt seasons
7 30+ Goal Seasons

One of my favorite players of all time. Plays the game right imho.

Marleau might get in, and I'd be thrilled for him, but he hasn't had a HoF career, regardless of being on a Cup winner or not. I've been swayed during several past threads about his HoF chances that he is, alas, an "accumulator".

He will get in . They have been generous towards forwards.

 

[joe dirte]

640 goals is too many goals to keep out of the HOF.

LOL. 640 goals in an era that scoring them was much easier, and really, Andreychuk didn't offer much else. He was a big body that sat in front of the net, and banged in goals, nothing more.

The thing is, 640 goals by Andreychuk, given the difference in scoring between when him and Marleau played, is pretty similar (maybe even less significant). It's no surprise that all but 4 or 5 of the top 20 all time goal scorers played significant time in the same era as Andreychuk.

On top of that, Marleau was a WAY better player outside of goal scoring.

You can't use "too many goals to keep out" for Andreychuk, and not for Marleau.

And to be clear, as I've said, I don't necessarily believe either SHOULD be there. Andreychuk is just a perfect example of why people say they don't believe some of these guys SHOULD get in, by the standards that we would set, but they SHOULD get in by the standards that the Hall has typically gone by.

 

[thadd]

1000 points and 500 goals, either of those will get you into the HHOF with or without a cup.

 

[ijuka]

Why should Marleau get into HoF even if he wins a Cup? Guy's not that good.

I guess HoF went down the gutter ever since they inducted Andreychuk.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

1000 points and 500 goals, either of those will get you into the HHOF with or without a cup.

Brind'Amour begs to differ

 

[thadd]

Brind'Amour begs to differ

I didn't say 1st ballot.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I didn't say 1st ballot.

he's not in, and is losing support.

same for 548 goals Tkachuk

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Definitely should have his jersey retired by the Sharks.

Dunno if he's HHOF-worthy. I suppose if he gets the Games Played record, you pretty much have to put him in.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

he's not in, and is losing support.

same for 548 goals Tkachuk

While true, Marleau has them both beat in every category that MIGHT get him in (GP, G, A, GWG) except Brindamour has more assists.

 

[AKAChip]

There should be a “Hall of Playing Forever and Accumulating Volume Stats” for guys like Marleau. Has a nice ring to it.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

When the best thing anybody could say about you during your peak is that you may be the 4th-5th best player on a good team... you're not a HOF calibre player.

Except anyone saying that about Marleau during his peak didn't watch him or the Sharks. Between 08-14 he scored at least 30 goals in every season except the strike year. Only Thornton was a better player than him on those teams.

 

[SladeWilson23]

When the best thing anybody could say about you during your peak is that you may be the 4th-5th best player on a good team... you're not a HOF calibre player.

640 goals. No context needed. That's too many goals to leave out of the HOF. I don't care how good of a player he was.

 

[SladeWilson23]

LOL. 640 goals in an era that scoring them was much easier, and really, Andreychuk didn't offer much else. He was a big body that sat in front of the net, and banged in goals, nothing more.

Yet not everybody who played during the 80's scored 640 goals. 640 goals is still in the top 20 ALL TIME. Too many goals to leave out of the HOF. The only reason he made the HOF was because of his 640 goals, and you know what, it's good enough of a reason.

The thing is, 640 goals by Andreychuk, given the difference in scoring between when him and Marleau played, is pretty similar (maybe even less significant). It's no surprise that all but 4 or 5 of the top 20 all time goal scorers played significant time in the same era as Andreychuk.

Agreed. Marleau belongs in the HOF.

On top of that, Marleau was a WAY better player outside of goal scoring.

You can't use "too many goals to keep out" for Andreychuk, and not for Marleau.

Except I've been saying Marleau belongs in the HOF this entire time.

And to be clear, as I've said, I don't necessarily believe either SHOULD be there.

Well you're wrong based on standards that have been set. The HOF has made it quite clear you do NOT have to be an elite player to make it.

is just a perfect example of why people say they don't believe some of these guys SHOULD get in, by the standards that we would set, but they SHOULD get in by the standards that the Hall has typically gone by.

I understand. People have different standards for what a HOF'er and what isn't. My opinion is that you do NOT need to be an elite player in order to have a HOF career.

 

[SabresSharks]

He will get in . They have been generous towards forwards.

He shouldn't. He probably will. I'll be happy for him.

Just put everyone in, and call it The Hockey Hall of Retired Players.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

1000 points and 500 goals, either of those will get you into the HHOF with or without a cup.

Then Pierre Turgeon should be in a shoe in.

 

[joe dirte]

Yet not everybody who played during the 80's scored 640 goals. 640 goals is still in the top 20 ALL TIME. Too many goals to leave out of the HOF. The only reason he made the HOF was because of his 640 goals, and you know what, it's good enough of a reason.

And even fewer that played in the 200's have 550. It works both ways. As I said 550 goals in the era Marleau played most of his career in is better than 640 when Andreychuk played.

Agreed. Marleau belongs in the HOF.
Except I've been saying Marleau belongs in the HOF this entire time.

He wouldn't be in the Hall by the standards most think. Most think they're too low. Personally, I think he should be fringe, potentially out, by what the standards SHOULD be. But I agree, he belongs with the players that ARE there.

Well you're wrong based on standards that have been set. The HOF has made it quite clear you do NOT have to be an elite player to make it.

right. It's not your first sentence I take issue with. It's the second. I think you SHOULD have to be an elite player to make it.

Of course, that opens up a whole new can of worms.... what defines "elite"?

I understand. People have different standards for what a HOF'er and what isn't. My opinion is that you do NOT need to be an elite player in order to have a HOF career.

Yeah, and again, if I could set the standards, which I can't, because I don't matter, I'd set them higher.

We really don't disagree.

 

[joe dirte]

Then Pierre Turgeon should be in a shoe in.

Now THERE is a great example of a completely unspectacular player playing at the right time and for a long time.