Does Marleau need a cup to be a hof player

[KevinRedkey]

Marleau is this generations's Dave Andreychuk.

 

[MyBudJT]

when claiming 2 players had equal impact on the game, PPG does matter.

and yes, PPG indirectly matters for the HOF as well. Guess what, the great players have great PPG. And if they dont they excel in either being a playoff performer or defensively to account for the gap (see Bergeron).

0.71 ppg with Z-E-R-O individual awards, accomplishments or stand out seasons <> a HOF player.


Here's a little piece of advice for you in life...when you are the only one that thinks a point of view is right, that means you're wrong.

It doesn't though. The fact Marleau has played so many games is what makes his career so special. Also, the fact he's remained in the NHL has hurt his PPG numbers, so you're essentially penalizing Marleau for reaching a feat that so few have done. Doesn't sit right with me.

I'm not the only one that thinks this, by the way. Thanks for showing us all the type of character you have though. Stay classy.

 

[Ivan13]

Marleau is this generations's Dave Andreychuk.

And it's a travesty Andreychuck is in the HOF.

 

[MyBudJT]

No, it doesn’t explicitly state that PPG isn’t part of the criteria. But neither is games played, or total points. Might as well throw those arguments out of the window, because it’s not explicitly in the criteria.

He contributed more in the playoffs because he had more games in the playoffs. You’re leaving this out because it ruins your argument.

Marleau was renowned for no showing in the playoffs and having a choker label.

So why are we penalizing Marleau's contributions to the game of hockey because he played more hockey games? The fact he's played so many games is what makes his career and contributions to hockey so special.

 

[CanadienShark]

If Marleau didn't have hockey ability, he wouldn't have reached 1600+ NHL games...

You for real? Did you actually misinterpret what I said that badly? Or are you just being willfully obtuse?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

So why are we penalizing Marleau's contributions to the game of hockey because he played more hockey games? The fact he's played so many games is what makes his career and contributions to hockey so special.

You’re not getting it at all. It’s because even though he’s played an impressive amount of games, the totals be it whatever criteria you want to choose, aren’t hall of fame impressive.

 

[MyBudJT]

You for real? Did you actually misinterpret what I said that badly? Or are you just being willfully obtuse?

Stay classy dude.

You stated:

So his health is the only argument, not his ability as a hockey player.

The fact he's played 1600+ games played in the greatest game in the world shows he has an ability that very few others have shown in the game of hockey. I stand by my statement... if Marleau didn't have hockey ability, he wouldn't have played 1600+ NHL games.

How am I being wilfully obtuse?

You’re not getting it at all. It’s because even though he’s played an impressive amount of games, the totals be it whatever criteria you want to choose, aren’t hall of fame impressive.

How are they not HHOF worthy?

How many players are not in the HHOF that have played more games OR have scored more goals than Marleau?

 

[mapleleafs34]

Wow I didn't realize he only needed 134 more GP's to have played the most in NHL history.

 

[CanadienShark]

Stay classy dude.

You stated:


The fact he's played 1600+ games played in the greatest game in the world shows he has an ability that very few others have shown in the game of hockey. I stand by my statement... if Marleau didn't have hockey ability, he wouldn't have played 1600+ NHL games.

How am I being wilfully obtuse?



How are they not HHOF worthy?

How many players are not in the HHOF that have played more games OR have scored more goals than Marleau?

You're being willfully obtuse if you interpret my words in such a way. That or you terribly misinterpret a pretty clear statement. Again though, you're twisting my words. Being healthy isn't an indication of his ability as a hockey player, which I was obviously referring to. Respond to all of what I say, don't pick and choose snippets; that's how meaning gets lost. Not to mention how I've praised his hockey ability. Ignoring that IS being willfully obtuse.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Wow I didn't realize he only needed 134 more GP's to have played the most in NHL history.

And only 175 to be the all-time leader in combined (Regular Season & Playoff) games played. 182 to be the first player ever to hit 2000 games played in the NHL (combined).

 

[MyBudJT]

You're being willfully obtuse if you interpret my words in such a way. That or you terribly misinterpret a pretty clear statement. Again though, you're twisting my words. Being healthy isn't an indication of his ability as a hockey player, which I was obviously referring to. Respond to all of what I say, don't pick and choose snippets; that's how meaning gets lost.

I'm not twisting any words... I interpretted health as games played. Sorry if thats not what you meant.

Sure, luck has something to do with Marleau having a healthy career... but a lot of it has to do with Marleaus genetics and hard work to being as healthy as he could. It doesn't deminish Marleau's acheivment by any means....

Edit: How many players that have played 21+ NHL seasons are not in the HHOF?

 

[CanadienShark]

I'm not twisting any words... I interpretted health as games played. Sorry if thats not what you meant.

Sure, luck has something to do with Marleau having a healthy career... but a lot of it has to do with Marleaus genetics and hard work to being as healthy as he could. It doesn't deminish Marleau's acheivment by any means....

Edit: How many players that have played 21+ NHL seasons are not in the HHOF?

No... You tried to argue that I said Marleau doesn't have hockey ability. That is twisting my words. Health isn't hockey ability. Re-read everything I've said about him here and try to rationalize it. He's a fantastic, versatile player. That is something I've argued, not disputed. You seem to think that his health alone warrants a spot. I don't. There are better players who aren't in.

 

[MyBudJT]

No... You tried to argue that I said Marleau doesn't have hockey ability. That is twisting my words. Health isn't hockey ability. Re-read everything I've said about him here and try to rationalize it. He's a fantastic, versatile player. That is something I've argued, not disputed. You seem to think that his health alone warrants a spot. I don't. There are better players who aren't in.

Health isn't hockey ability, I'd agree with that. 1600+ NHL games played shows hockey ability...

 

[Pi]

No disrespect to him or Sharks fans but I don't think he's a HOF player? He's had longevity so he's collected 500+ goals. He's in the hall of very good players who may get in like 10-20 years from now?

 

[AfroThunder396]

He is not a HHoF'er regardless and a Cup (team award) should not influence whether you (an individual) get in the HHoF or not.

 

[CanadienShark]

Health isn't hockey ability, I'd agree with that. 1600+ NHL games played shows hockey ability...

Yes. Quite factually, he has hockey ability. My argument is that he lacks the hockey ability to warrant entry into the Hall. That was clear from the get go. You just misinterpreted what I said. Never once did I dispute that he has hockey ability. I argued quite the opposite. It goes back to you twisting my words.

 

[MyBudJT]

Yes. Quite factually, he has hockey ability. My argument is that he lacks the hockey ability to warrant entry into the Hall. That was clear from the get go. You just misinterpreted what I said. Never once did I dispute that he has hockey ability. I argued quite the opposite. It goes back to you twisting my words.

How can you say that when he'll have scored 550+ goals, 100+ GWGs, and 1150+ points in a low scoring era?

 

[CanadienShark]

How can you say that when he'll have scored 550+ goals, 100+ GWGs, and 1150+ points in a low scoring era?

Because that's only due to his longevity. He's never once been remotely close to a top player in any season. As others have said before, he's a compiler. He's played a LOT of games, so naturally a "very" good player like him will accumulate points.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Probably not but winning one makes him a lock

 

[MyBudJT]

Because that's only due to his longevity. He's never once been remotely close to a top player in any season. As others have said before, he's a compiler. He's played a LOT of games, so naturally a "very" good player like him will accumulate points.

Its the hockey hall of fame, not the hockey hall of single seasons... This is just made up criteria that you (and other HFers) have made.

 

[CanadienShark]

Its the hockey hall of fame, not the hockey hall of single seasons... This is just made up criteria that you (and other HFers) have made.

Never once did I say that. Stop twisting my words. He's never stood out among his peers. He's a very good player that has stuck around a long time. Great. There are far better players out there.

 

[MyBudJT]

Never once did I say that. Stop twisting my words. He's never stood out among his peers. He's a very good player that has stuck around a long time. Great. There are far better players out there.

Yet most of his peers have never scored 500+ goals, 1150+ points and have played 1600+ games...

 

[CanadienShark]

Yet most of his peers have never scored 500+ goals, 1150+ points and have played 1600+ games...

Because they never had his health. Better players don't always play as long. How can you not understand this? Let's end this. You think he's worthy. Great.

 

[Seras]

at least a Cup.

poster child for what a compiler is. anyone can rack up gaudy totals sitting next to Thornton for a decade.

0x 50+ G
1x 40+ G
0x 90+ points
2x 80+ points

0x Top 10 points
2x Top 10 goals (4, 6)

Never higher than AS-4
No individual awards
The only time he was a finalist for anything is a 3rd place Byng finish

It's so easy all you have to do is show up and grab a sick, anyone can do that

 

[Pi]

Because they never had his health. How can you not understand this? Let's end this. You think he's worthy. Great.

Exactly. I don't see how a cup changes his HOF worthiness when IMO he's not even close right now.

The only way it would change is if he had a ridiculous playoff run at his age and won the Conn Smythe. The way he's playing right now, the chances of that happening are close to zero.

He's a really good player but I don't think he has a case to be made as far as the HHOF is concerned.

His PPG is .70 and that translates to a 58 point season every 82 games. Not sure how that is hall of fame material.