Does Kucherov have a shot at becoming a top 5 winger of all time ?

[Pablo El Perro]

I'd have no problem putting Kucherov behind Ovi, Jagr and Howe when all is said and done.

Lafleur is a good comparable to me.

 

[Voight]

Problem with Lafleur is he only really had 7-8 seasons of being a great player and not a whole lot beyond that. Kucherov doesn’t match Lafleur’s 6 year run of being near the top of the leaderboards, but his play over the past 8 seasons hasn’t been far off, including a couple big seasons and playoff dominance. If he stays healthy continues to have a great run into his early 30s, I’d find it hard to take Lafleur

Injuries are apart of the game, but with perfect health Kuch would've. Injury woes in 2021, 2022 killed his chances.

 

[Jericho111091]

Id say he's at least behind Howe, Richard, Hull, Jagr, Ovi, and Lafleur. I suppose it's possible that he passes some of them into the top 5, but it'll take some work

 

[Zuluss]

Howe
Hull Sr.
Ovechkin
Jagr
Richard

So Kucherov has no chance to crack top5

Lafleur
Makarov

They are still well ahead and will be ahead I think

Bossy
Geoffrion
Kharlamov
Lindsay
Selanne

That seems to be the competition to round out top10 wingers of all-time. Is Kucherov's career going to eclipse Selanne's? Is Kucherov's peak better than Kharlamov's? Would you rather have Kucherov for playoffs than Bossy? I am still inclined to say no, but Kucherov can still add to his career quite meaningfully.

 

[DFC]

I'm at just below Jagr, hard to argue Jagr doesn't have the same peak but significantly better longevity. And he still has 5 Art Ross's, 3 Lindsays...

The Art Rosses were also a function of longevity for Jagr, because he mainly won them in years Mario wasn't around. Kucherov has to contend with McDavid, who's probably a notch below Lemieux, which is why Kuch can still win an Art Ross if McDavid is just slightly off.

But I agree, I would say just below Jagr right now. Although I think Kuch has a chance to get neck and neck with him, or even surpass him by a little bit, if he can keep this up into his mid-thirties.

 

[TropicOfNoReturn]

Now, that Kucherov has the NHL record for points in a season by a winger, he enters the conversation of being a top 10 or even top 5 winger of all time.

With his regular season accolades and impeccable play off performances, where do you see him by the end of his career ?

Jagr had a 149 point season. He was a winger.
Mike Bossy had a 147 point season. He was a winger, no? Before my time, but I believe he was.

Either way, while Kucherov hasn't set any record, I voted he's already top 5 all time. Maybe not quite yet....but its close.
Perhaps I'm forgetting some guys...but the first six ones that come to mind that Kucherov is in the same tier as are:

Gordie Howe
Maurice Richard
Jaromir Jagr
Mike Bossy
Alex Ovechkin
Nikita Kucherov


Edit:
Ok, I forgot Bobby Hull and Guy Lafleur. Add them to the above list, but I do feel all eight of those guys are in the same tier (with Howe likely being the top of the list)

 

[ViD]

Jagr had a 149 point season. He was a winger.
Mike Bossy had a 147 point season. He was a winger, no? Before my time, but I believe he was.

Yeah, I mixed points with assists

 

[DFC]

I’d love to see someone list ten better wingers than Kucherov. His peak is already (at least) top five but I could understand people keeping him out until his career numbers get there as well; anyone who doesn’t have him in their top ten at this point is just crazy.

It seems like he might be in the 6-8 range right now. There are guys it's just impossible to pass without longevity, IMO. Kuch is probably pacing to be in the 5/6 range.

Yeah, I mixed points with assists

I think it's reasonable to assert Kucherov is in the conversation for the best ever playmaking winger. Possibly already #1. He holds the record and his second best season is tied for the previous record. So he has the best and second best assist totals for a winger in a season.

 

[Rorschach]

Just some > Kucherov wingers IMO: (not counting any normal centers playing on wing sometimes like Mark Messier, etc. )

(in no order)
Jaromir Jagr
Allexander Ovechkin
Gordie Howe
Maurice Richard
Bobby Hull


In the discussion:

(in no order)
Mike Bossy
Jari Kurri
Guy Lafleur
Brett Hull
Teemu Selanne
Patrick Kane
Ted Lindsay

 

[Sky04]

The Art Rosses were also a function of longevity for Jagr, because he mainly won them in years Mario wasn't around. Kucherov has to contend with McDavid, who's probably a notch below Lemieux, which is why Kuch can still win an Art Ross if McDavid is just slightly off.

But I agree, I would say just below Jagr right now. Although I think Kuch has a chance to get neck and neck with him, or even surpass him by a little bit, if he can keep this up into his mid-thirties.

Sure but there hasn't been a single year he would've came 2nd to McDavid. He would've lost Art Ross's to Giroux and Pastrnak if you removed McDavid from the equation. As we've seen this year, holding 1st place isn't a cake walk. To pass Jagr you need hardware imo. A Hart definitely brings it closer has Jagr only got 1 in his career.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Wherever Jagr is, I think Kucherov will rank either just below or just above. Same tier.

I wouldn’t go that far. Jagr is arguably the best/2nd best winger of all time with Ovi.

 

[bobholly39]

No chance

Im very high on Kucherov and think he gets underrated big time, but top 5 is too high

He definitely isn't touching any of:

Howe
Hull
Richard
Jagr
Ovechkin

Then there's also Lafleur, Bossy etc

I think top 10 is possible so voted that

 

[Connor McConnor]

Disagree, I prefer Kucherov at his peak to Ovechkin. When did Ovechkin score 145 points?

Such a bad take. I hate how a lot of historical people may think like you when just looking at stats.

People who watched both play should see a big difference. If you think peak Kucherov is better than Ovi then you are basically saying he’s as good/better than Crosby which is absurd.

 

[Felidae]

They are still well ahead and will be ahead I think

Bossy
Geoffrion
Kharlamov
Lindsay
Selanne

That seems to be the competition to round out top10 wingers of all-time. Is Kucherov's career going to eclipse Selanne's? Is Kucherov's peak better than Kharlamov's? Would you rather have Kucherov for playoffs than Bossy? I am still inclined to say no, but Kucherov can still add to his career quite meaningfully.

Kucherov has peaked higher than most of these guys, and the length of his prime is nearing theirs too. He just needs to add a couple more elite seasons and he'll be on his way.

At the very least, he's already peaked higher than Selanne imo. Kucherov has already beaten McDavid once and is on track to do so again. Not to mention he came close in 2017-18 until near the end of the season.

Unlike Selanne, who was a distant 2nd to Jagr's best Art Ross, and Lemieux's weakest. Both seasons approximately around the level to 2023-24 McDavid. He was never a true Art Ross threat

Kucherov

Points: 1, 1, 3, 3, 5, 7
PPG: 1, 1, 2, 4, 4, 5, 8

Selanne

Points: 2, 2, 5, 5, 7, 8, 8
PPG: 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 8, 8

 

[Toby91ca]

Jagr had a 149 point season. He was a winger.
Mike Bossy had a 147 point season. He was a winger, no? Before my time, but I believe he was.

Either way, while Kucherov hasn't set any record, I voted he's already top 5 all time. Maybe not quite yet....but its close.
Perhaps I'm forgetting some guys...but the first six ones that come to mind that Kucherov is in the same tier as are:

Gordie Howe
Maurice Richard
Jaromir Jagr
Mike Bossy
Alex Ovechkin
Nikita Kucherov


Edit:
Ok, I forgot Bobby Hull and Guy Lafleur. Add them to the above list, but I do feel all eight of those guys are in the same tier (with Howe likely being the top of the list)

There is literally 0% chance I’m putting a guy with 870 career points in the same tier as Howe…he’s got more work to do and might get there, but no way he’s already there.

 

[Ben White]

Howe
Jagr
Lafleur
Ovechkin
Richard
Hull

He's in the top 10, but I dont see him knocking off any of the 6 listed.

I’d add Makarov and Kharlamov to that list. Kucherov slides in just within the top 10.

 

[Ben White]

Howe
Jagr
Lafleur
Richard
Makarov
Kharlamov
Ovechkin
Hull
Kucherov
Bure

 

[BraveCanadian]

Wherever Jagr is, I think Kucherov will rank either just below or just above. Same tier.

Dunno about that one.. Jagr drove play at ES to an absurd degree.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I wouldn’t go that far. Jagr is arguably the best/2nd best winger of all time with Ovi.

lol

 

[Xspyrit]

Yeah, I mixed points with assists

You can maybe put this link in the OP :

NHL Records

records.nhl.com

 

[DFC]

Sure but there hasn't been a single year he would've came 2nd to McDavid. He would've lost Art Ross's to Giroux and Pastrnak if you removed McDavid from the equation. As we've seen this year, holding 1st place isn't a cake walk. To pass Jagr you need hardware imo. A Hart definitely brings it closer has Jagr only got 1 in his career.

I was speaking more about the future. Kucherov will probably be involved in the next few Art Ross races, which is the kind of longevity he would need to really be in this conversation.

Dunno about that one.. Jagr drove play at ES to an absurd degree.

And Kucherov is on the brink of being the 4th/5th player in history to score 100 assists.

Not saying he's better than Jagr, but that's definitely Kucherov's tier.

 

[BraveCanadian]

And Kucherov is on the brink of being the 4th/5th player in history to score 100 assists.

Not saying he's better than Jagr, but that's definitely Kucherov's tier.

Yes but that fact that two players are likely going to do it after 30 years of no one doing it says it is not just the player but also the scoring environment that has changed. What is this tier that you think exists?

I think Kucherov is making a case for later top 10 to top 15 but I'm fairly confident Jagr slots in in the top 5 or so wingers.

 

[DFC]

Yes but that fact that two players are likely going to do it after 30 years of no one doing it says it is not just the player but also the scoring environment that has changed. What is this tier that you think exists?

I think Kucherov is making a case for later top 10 to top 15 but I'm fairly confident Jagr slots in in the top 5 or so wingers.

Scoring, in reality, isn't up all that much. It's actually down from last year.

I would put Jagr around 5 or 6, and Kucherov slightly below. But I think Kucherov has a chance to catch up if he can extend his prime into his mid-thirties. Kucherov is a good candidate to do that though, given how his game is based mostly on IQ.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Scoring, in reality, isn't up all that much. It's actually down from last year.

I would put Jagr around 5 or 6, and Kucherov slightly below. But I think Kucherov has a chance to catch up if he can extend his prime into his mid-thirties. Kucherov is a good candidate to do that though, given how his game is based mostly on IQ.

Average scoring is, obviously, a poor proxy for the distribution of scoring going to front liners.

 

[DFC]

Average scoring is, obviously, a poor proxy for the distribution of scoring going to front liners.

Well, it's not being distributed to Kucherov because of any league-wide thing. It's being distributed to Kucherov because the team didn't have a goalie until March.