Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

[Discoverer]

Puts it into perspective a bit, still feel Matthews is overpaid on a shorter contract then I would have liked, but, we will have a strong cup team for the next 3-5 years.

I tend to feel the same way; for that term, I thought the dollar value would be a bit lower. I'm not a huge fan of it, but it's ok.

I just don't understand how so many people think the team is screwed going forward.

 

[Menzinger]

Excellent post. Allocating the majority of your cap space into your best players is how you win cups. People of HF are just dimwits who would rather Roman Josi at 4M than Crosby at 8.7M.

Our two worst contracts were signed by Lou, for those keeping score. Why are they the worst? Because they're not very good players.

Not to mention we’re seeing a league wide shift in how contracts are distributed and teams manage their cap.

Soon EVERY TEAM will be “top heavy” where a few core guys take up the bulk of a team’s cap space.

People here are thinking this is only going to apply to the Leafs, when it’s anything but that.

 

[DanM]

Whenever I hear a player say "I want to be an X for a long time" you realize how much they are full of horseshit lol They may want to play on your team for a long time, but it's as long as you give them every god damn thing they want, and they do not have to bend in anyway to help anybody else, or the team.

I know it's the polite sports answer, it's just so insincere.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Bergeron was 28? when he signed his deal, which was over 5 years ago, what are we even talking about here

I wish 5 years from now Matthews deal could be considered a steal, instead of being a UFA.

 

[DanM]

I wish 5 years from now Matthews deal could be considered a steal, instead of being a UFA.

It maybe considered a steal.

I think Rantanen will be the highest paid player in hockey after this season. I could see a 8x13-14 in his future.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Not to mention we’re seeing a league wide shift in how contracts are distributed and teams manage their cap.

Soon EVERY TEAM will be “top heavy” where a few core guys take up the bulk of a team’s cap space.

People here are thinking this is only going to apply to the Leafs, when it’s anything but that.

We'll see what happens when Aho, Point, Rants, Laine, etc sign for under $10m/8 year contracts while Marner will get $11m/5 years.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

It maybe considered a steal.

I think Rantanen will be the highest paid player in hockey after this season. I could see a 8x13-14 in his future.

How can it be a steal when the following year Matthews will command a max contract as a ufa?

 

[Menzinger]

We'll see what happens when Aho, Point, Rants, Laine, etc sign for under $10m/8 year contracts while Marner will get $11m/5 years.

We’ll see, but I doubt your prediction is accurate.

Shorter term deals for RFAs will be more common (as they used to be before the McDavid/Eichel/LD outlier deals), and the money will stay high.

 

[IPS]

Whenever I hear a player say "I want to be an X for a long time" you realize how much they are full of horse**** lol They may want to play on your team for a long time, but it's as long as you give them every god damn thing they want, and they do not have to bend in anyway to help anybody else, or the team.

I know it's the polite sports answer, it's just so insincere.

I really do wish players would just stfu with the conjecture. God does it get annoying.

Matthews bullshit about "I understand there's a cap and we want to find something that works for both sides blah blah blah" hey kid, we get it, you're trying to milk the team for everything they're worth. And it's ok, it's expected. Stop blowing smoke up everybody's ass with your attempts of virtuousness, it looks f***ing pathetic.

 

[DanM]

How can it be a steal when the following year Matthews will command a max contract as a ufa?

I am trying to be positive, but just maybe we win a cup by then, and he really likes it lol gives us a break.

 

[DanM]

I really do wish players would just **** with the conjecture. God does it get annoying.

Matthews bull**** about "I understand there's a cap and we want to find something that works for both sides blah blah blah" hey kid, we get it, you're trying to milk the team for everything they're worth. And it's ok, it's expected. Stop blowing smoke up everybody's ass with your attempts of virtuousness, it looks ****ing pathetic.

Exactly

I get that in public they have to say certain things, but it would be a breath of fresh air.

When I first heard he was going shorter term, because of the cap implications, I figured he also meant an AVV break, but literally he just meant "the % of what I want will not change, you will just not have 8 years of the highest number of this %" lol

 

[IPS]

Exactly

I get that in public they have to say certain things, but it would be a breath of fresh air.

How about just a simple "next question please" or "I've been instructed not to speak on that" when anything contract-related comes up? I don't know but it annoys me so f***ing much that they try to present this image of "wanting to help the team out" when behind the scenes they got their agents squeezing as hard as possible to ring out every possible $ out of the team.

 

[DarkKnight]

Here's the real kicker. Kyle himself said we will need cheap players coming in to keep this program working. I'd submit apart from the two kids on D, a goalie and a forward, the cupboards aren't exactly full. The Leafs are pretty thin moving forward, our farm system is weak. I don't see many cheap players coming in a couple years and beyond.

 

[DanM]

How about just a simple "next question please" or "I've been instructed not to speak on that" when anything contract-related comes up? I don't know but it annoys me so ****ing much that they try to present this image of "wanting to help the team out" when behind the scenes they got their agents squeezing as hard as possible to ring out every possible $ out of the team.

Yep

Than you get jackass posters saying "wow, you are telling me you wouldn't want every cent in your job"

Like of course I would, but I make peanuts (in comparison) , and my raise would be a few thousand a year, and my raise would not hinder my companies ability to have success. My company wouldn't be like "we are taking this years profits and giving you a 500k raise, even though it may hurt our ability to be competitive on a global market"

Or they talk about marketshare. Well my CEO makes 12m a year, but his employees are the ones they use to make that money, to pay him. Do you think we get a fair share of revenue? lol

They are not the same things at all, I hate when people try to make that stupid real life comparison.

After a certain amount of millions, the players would not be hurt by accepting a 10.5m deal, as opposed to a 11.6m deal. At a certain point your quality of life will not change, it's their egos and agents that push so damn hard.

 

[beebuzz]

I'm not sure I either trust/don't trust his negotiations. He has managed to keep the team competitive in the short term at the very least, which is better than Leafs fans have been able to say in a while. However, he hasn't exactly "wowed" me with his abilities either. I think seeing how this summer goes will be a lot more telling.

 

[Shayne Corsi]

I think Dubas miscalculated re: the timing and order of the contracts; and that--at least publicly--he seems a bit naive about the relationship between these players "wanting to be here" and the dollar figure they still expect. Not catastrophically bad, but definitely the weakest part of his (otherwise pretty stellar) tenure. I just hope that, after the dust settles, we can keep Kappy.

 

[ITM]

This is text book damage control and nothing less.

The contract is a travesty and is indeed the best in the NHL (fortunate windfall for Matthews). The Nylander deal is clearly an overpay as well which now puts us in a bind. The only saving grace to these two horrible deals is the structure of them for trade. That is all.

Well, if Matthews signed for $10M and Marner followed, and Nylander signed for $6M, the aggregate is, obviously $26M. As it stands, presuming Marner follows Matthews at at $11.6M, the aggregate is approximately $30.2M. That $4.2M per season is another quality asset, no doubt about it.

It's also Zaistev's contract. Less than Marleau's contract. A combination of Hainsey and Brown's contracts. It's the retention of Horton's contract . It's Gardiner's contract...Point is, that while the totals aren't ideal, they're manageable.

Interestingly, after the 2019-2020 season when Marleau and Horton come off the books, the total is $11.550M, with Freddie Andersen and Travis Dermott to renegotiate.

Rosen is all but set to graduate to the Leafs next season making less than a million. Moore similarly...Bracco's leading the AHL in assists, and makes less than a million.

Impression management isn't necessary if you examine the very real, middle of the road moves that can be made to offset the cost of securing the core and in turn provide the appropriate space necessary to sign appropriate bottom six, bottom pairing, back-up pieces.

Our club is fine.

 

[ITM]

sadly the Flyers' fast tracking this kid will probably ruin him in the long term. He's looked really good thus far, but there's a reason Hextall refused to bring the kid up.

Thought had crossed my mind as well. Steve Mason being the first comparison.

Still, playing armchair GM during drafts is a convenient thing. I wanted Hart (or Clague) when Korshkov was selected. Maybe Hunter will have the last laugh there.

I certainly hope so for our sakes.

 

[Kiwi]

I still don't love the deal
I thought we got hosed on term and AAV if I'm being honest

But if management plays there cards right we can still build a sustainable winner with this contract on the books

We just don't have any margin for error so things like the Marleau and Zaitsev deals are big no-no's moving forward

 

[HOF Paul Henderson]

Where is Shanny through all this? Shouldn't he be here taking your questions/concerns?

He’s likely on his yacht in the Bermuda Triangle, with GSP and Conor McGregor, planning his next big moves.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Im not too sure Dubas does any negotiations to be honest.

-Matthews initial ask is $14m/8.... A little high, but that's where negotiations start.
-Dubas should have countered with $11.5m/8.... A little low, but that's his job.
-They meet somewhere in the middle 12.5m/8... This is where he belongs.

Looks much better then $11.6m/5 that ended up happening though, Dubas dropped the ball here.

McDavid got 16.68% on an 8 year deal. 15% seems proper for Matthews for an 8 year term, and on an 83M cap it works out to 12.45M. Bump it to 12.5M flat x 8 for a slight overpay. This makes the $11.6m/5 deal look like a travesty.

Did Dubas do any negotiating? Or did he just bend over and say take as much as you want?

 

[Cotton]

Yep

Than you get jackass posters saying "wow, you are telling me you wouldn't want every cent in your job"

Like of course I would, but I make peanuts (in comparison) , and my raise would be a few thousand a year, and my raise would not hinder my companies ability to have success. My company wouldn't be like "we are taking this years profits and giving you a 500k raise, even though it may hurt our ability to be competitive on a global market"

Or they talk about marketshare. Well my CEO makes 12m a year, but his employees are the ones they use to make that money, to pay him. Do you think we get a fair share of revenue? lol

They are not the same things at all, I hate when people try to make that stupid real life comparison.

After a certain amount of millions, the players would not be hurt by accepting a 10.5m deal, as opposed to a 11.6m deal. At a certain point your quality of life will not change, it's their egos and agents that push so damn hard.

And the player association puts pressure on them to do it also.

 

[DanM]

And the player association puts pressure on them to do it also.

NHLPA needs to smarten the hell up. You maybe looking out for the players, but if you keep pushing, maybe you have no league to play in, and the players can go be janitors, because they don't have the education to do anything but shoot a puck.

P.S. I am just ranting, and I don't mean to insult janitors lol

 

[leafs in five]

I wish 5 years from now Matthews deal could be considered a steal, instead of being a UFA.

alright

 

[supermann_98]

We'll see what happens when Aho, Point, Rants, Laine, etc sign for under $10m/8 year contracts while Marner will get $11m/5 years.

This is the thing that will make Dubas look bad. All those guys will sign for less than Mitch and all those guys are comparable players if not better.

Along with that tire fire out in Edmonton, we seem to be the only team not able to get our young guys to take a hometown discount.

We all hear from their mouths how it’s an honour to put on this jersey blah, blah, blah ... but then they hold a gun to the team’s head when it comes to putting pen to paper