Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

[ottomaddox]

Where is Shanny through all this? Shouldn't he be here taking your questions/concerns?

 

[thewave]

I know a guy. Rumour has it, he was upset that Marvel cast Tom Hiddleston as Loki and not him. He sincerely believes he would've made a more convincing Loki.

In all seriousness, we can be displeased with details of an outcome, but it's unreasonable to engage in this level of crticism because the details of a favorable outcome weren't met.

"We can and we will sign them" is two down, one to go. The third has apparently expressly stated he's not interested in an offer sheet and of the three, the only Torontonian.

I believe - for the record - that Dubas celebrated the Calder Cup, before July 1st didn't he? No foul there so far as I can see, in fact, I loved his reaction to the championship...He's still wearing Marlies gear for goodness sake.

Being over his head? I don't think there's a seasoned GM, including LL that could say that the Toronto Maple Leafs portfolio is something they're qualified to do. I think Scotty Bowman's the one man who could say, "I got this" and we'd be foolish not to correct anyone who felt differently.

If the premise is, Dubas's youth and inexperience must yield negative results given others available then it's kinda begging the question. It's also incidental.

I think he was brought in at the right time. I think he's been groomed well. The transition couldn't have been better. And he - despite the convenience in the argument - isn't working alone. He's a piece of the managerial puzzle that unequivocally understand cap constraints and possibilities.

Lost in all of this is Lawrence Gilman and Brandon Pridham. What responsibility do you believe they merit in Nylander's signing, Matthews' signing and Tavares' signing?

What it conveys to me - much like the reality of acquiring certain desired positional players - is that there are elements in most negotiations that are beyond control and as important, beyond a management team's desire to break if it means losing the exceptional piece.

This is text book damage control and nothing less.

The contract is a travesty and is indeed the best in the NHL (fortunate windfall for Matthews). The Nylander deal is clearly an overpay as well which now puts us in a bind. The only saving grace to these two horrible deals is the structure of them for trade. That is all.

 

[thewave]

Where is Shanny through all this? Shouldn't he be here taking your questions/concerns?

He is letting Dubas fall on his sword alone. I assure you, just like when he went West for the Nylander signing day.

 

[Northern Dancer]

During the summer I predicted Tavares new contract will be used as a magnet/ salary escalator by player agents to raise Leafs internal pay scale and to toss out NHL comparables to determine the new contracts for the 3 Amigos.

Matthews @ $12 mil
Tavares @ $11 mil
Marner @ $ 10 mil
Nylander @ $7.5 mil

Those numbers were not well received at the time, and to be fair my numbers were based on 8 year deals with Leafs buying maximum UFA away in those prices incl;uded.

Dubas is handing out those #'s and only getting 1 year of UFA status from players, while leaving 2-3 UFA on the cutting room floor, thanks to seasoned player agents get the best of him.

As a self proclaimed realist, those Dubas contracts being handed out are even more pessimistic than I feared.. I thought my numbers on 8 year deals were worst case scenario.

Good old Mess, always able to put a negative spin on a good news day.

 

[GoonieFace]

Why do people get so bent out of shape about stuff they have no control of.

The Leafs have paid professionals to manage the cap. They know what they can pay guys to field a successful team.

The players have all the leverage in these negotiations. Getting angry at Dubas and saying he doesn’t know how to do his job is ridiculous.

Bottom line, we have Matthews and Tavares and soon Marner for the next 5 years. We have a good supporting cast as well. This is a good team with a legit chance to win.

Next time you think about whining and bashing the Leafs management, go cheer for the Oilers, Rangers, Senators or a handfulnof other teams.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

Has anyone actually done the math?

The whole team as it is will fit... Minus Gardiner and Brown. If we manage to trade Zaitsev and get a more sensible solution on RHD, even better. Dubas said we can and we will and he almost has despite the consensus around here being absolute failure. Not to mention the cap is about to take some significant jumps with the US TV deal, gambling agreements and Seattle expansion. Marleau is also off the books in 2020-21.

 

[SprDaVE]

Has anyone actually done the math?

The whole team as it is will fit... Minus Gardiner and Brown. If we manage to trade Zaitsev and get a more sensible solution on RHD, even better. Dubas said we can and we will and he almost has despite the consensus around here being absolute failure. Not to mention the cap is about to take some significant jumps with the US TV deal, gambling agreements and Seattle expansion. Marleau is also off the books in 2020-21.

It will. The only problem is that there won't be any significant additions, which we don't really need going into next season.

With a bit of luck, Liljegren displays a lot of development that gives us a damn good, and cheap, top 4 RHD defenseman.

 

[thewave]

I look at the contracts, I look at polls, I look again and I look at the polls. Do you people really believe that Dubas has brought good value to this team with these two contracts? Neither Nylander or Matthews gave us deals at all, they aren't even close to being team friendly or "good".

 

[supermann_98]

Actually, I do not think Dubas is a capable NHL general manager.

He is learning on the job.

The drawback obviously is that if or when he figures out the ropes, this team is already old.

At least the organization has Babcock, the only guy who knows what he is doing.

Shanahan should be retired by upper management.

He IS upper management

 

[ottomaddox]

I heard some of Dubas' presser yesterday. He used terminology like "elite" when describing Matthews' ability. I worry that Dubas and his assistants play EA and dwell in the world of fantasy/hockey forums.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

It will. The only problem is that there won't be any significant additions, which we don't really need going into next season.

With a bit of luck, Liljegren displays a lot of development that gives us a damn good, and cheap, top 4 RHD defenseman.

That's the kind of thing we will need to rely on a bit as all contenders do...

Mirtle has a pretty interesting article this morning on the mid term contracts the Leafs are handing out and the changing landscape of the NHL with younger players being paid for their prime years rather than the aging vet getting the big UFA contract. Unfortunately this is beginning when we have three big deals up... you can't really blame Dubas for that. I'm not sure what some on here expect him to do.

What could be interesting is when we're 4 years into these deals. Matthews will be 25/26 and we will need to see if we want to back up a brinks truck for him to go till 34 years old or if we trade one of these three for younger assets. This flexibility could benefit us in the end... we don't really know.

 

[SprDaVE]

That's the kind of thing we will need to rely on a bit as all contenders do...

Mirtle has a pretty interesting article this morning on the mid term contracts the Leafs are handing out and the changing landscape of the NHL with younger players being paid for their prime years rather than the aging vet getting the big UFA contract. Unfortunately this is beginning when we have three big deals up... you can't really blame Dubas for that. I'm not sure what some on here expect him to do.

What could be interesting is when we're 4 years into these deals. Matthews will be 25/26 and we will need to see if we want to back up a brinks truck for him to go till 34 years old or if we trade one of these three for younger assets. This flexibility could benefit us in the end... we don't really know.

People will blame Dubas because they don't like him and preferred Hunter or Lamoriello. No matter what he does will be the wrong thing --- It's been happening literally since day 1.

We'll see what happens. I've been close to the projected numbers for every cap hit so far. I'm sure Marner won't be too far. It will fit but going into next season. This is where Dubas will need to use those numbers and find efficiencies to fill some gaps.

 

[Joey Hoser]

He is letting Dubas fall on his sword alone. I assure you, just like when he went West for the Nylander signing day.

The president is letting our GM make bad moves so he can "fall on his sword"? How the f*** do you think that makes sense? If Shanahan agrees with you that this is bad, then why did he let it happen and do nothing about it? Now he's acting to spite Dubas? What the hell do you think is going on in this organization?

 

[rumman]

Everyone makes mistakes.

Carter Hart might be his biggest.

sadly the Flyers' fast tracking this kid will probably ruin him in the long term. He's looked really good thus far, but there's a reason Hextall refused to bring the kid up.

 

[thewave]

The president is letting our GM make bad moves so he can "fall on his sword"? How the **** do you think that makes sense? If Shanahan agrees with you that this is bad, then why did he let it happen and do nothing about it? Now he's acting to spite Dubas? What the hell do you think is going on in this organization?

He is staying out of it like any smart human being. He is letting Dubas GM, if he fails he still has a second chance. If BS is all over the situation he is involved in the debacle and it is, it's a debacle. You'll see.

 

[Joey Hoser]

He is staying out of it like any smart human being.

Smart people don't let the organization they are the president of make decisions they think are bad and detrimental to that organization.

 

[thewave]

Smart people don't let the organization they are the president of make decisions they think are bad and detrimental to that organization.

The President is silent. The President is therefore not proud of the deals. If he were, he would say... We locked them up and we got a great deal for the team, one that allows us to compete for years. He can't though. He can't.

 

[Mess]

Good old Mess, always able to put a negative spin on a good news day.

I think you sig says it all .. Being a Leaf fan is good for the soul. It makes coping with real life that much easier.

 

[Joey Hoser]

The President is silent. The President is therefore not proud of the deals. If he were, he would say... We locked them up and we got a great deal for the team, one that allows us to compete for years. He can't though. He can't.

Yeah sure bud, if you want to think our president doesn't care and just let's the organization destroy itself in order to spite his own GM, go ahead.

 

[rumman]

I'm probably ly in the minority. But, after watching Dubas speak yesterday. I actually am more confident with this management group. I dont care what other GM's think of these contracts. I dont care what other fans think. I only want this team to win. And I personally believe that this team has the talent to accomplish that.

there's no doubt Dumbas is a great PR guy, and a wonderful spin doctor, however I'm not drinking the Kool Aid anymore. I think he's been overly generous to date and this will come back to bite the Leafs long term. Lets hope they can win a cup before this all implodes and we're all wondering how such a rosy future was frittered away by the boy wonder.

 

[The Podium]

If we estimate an 83 mill cap hit then this deal comes in around 14% of total cap. 85 mill would be around 13.5%.

McDavid = 16.67 (8 years)
Eichel = 13.33 (8 years)
Ovi = 16.82 (13 years)
Malkin = 15.34
Crosby = 17.3
Stamkos = 11.66
Toews = 11.09
Kane = 11.09

Not a steal by any means, but I am assuming that these were the comparables used by both camps. Matthews should have been closer to the Stamkos, Toews and Kane group which would have put him somewhere around 9.5-10 x 5 years.

 

[rumman]

Also, it's obvious dubas bent over even harder than the Nylander deal because the holdout was likely on the back of his mind. What an idiot.

Looks like our window is gone. We can't keep everyone together if everyone is overpaid and taking shorter term ufa deals.

Dumbas' latest Amazon buy............

 

[Hockey Crazy]

He is staying out of it like any smart human being. He is letting Dubas GM, if he fails he still has a second chance. If BS is all over the situation he is involved in the debacle and it is, it's a debacle. You'll see.

Sorry man but this is nonsensical.... Such a random hot take.

 

[rumman]

Where is Shanny through all this? Shouldn't he be here taking your questions/concerns?

ultimately this is his mess, I've lost faith in him and his Shanaplan.

 

[rumman]

I heard some of Dubas' presser yesterday. He used terminology like "elite" when describing Matthews' ability. I worry that Dubas and his assistants play EA and dwell in the world of fantasy/hockey forums.

after yesterday Dumbas needs a time out.