Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

[ITM]

None of these moves are made in a vacuum. Our young GM got schooled from the beginning, and that started a snowball.

I had laid out a plan during last season to sign the big three at once. That would have been my top priority after JT was done. Our young GM thought posting pics with the Calder was more important. Then he made some outlandish claims in the media and next thing you know he's in over his head. My hope is he gets better at his job and quickly.

I know a guy. Rumour has it, he was upset that Marvel cast Tom Hiddleston as Loki and not him. He sincerely believes he would've made a more convincing Loki.

In all seriousness, we can be displeased with details of an outcome, but it's unreasonable to engage in this level of crticism because the details of a favorable outcome weren't met.

"We can and we will sign them" is two down, one to go. The third has apparently expressly stated he's not interested in an offer sheet and of the three, the only Torontonian.

I believe - for the record - that Dubas celebrated the Calder Cup, before July 1st didn't he? No foul there so far as I can see, in fact, I loved his reaction to the championship...He's still wearing Marlies gear for goodness sake.

Being over his head? I don't think there's a seasoned GM, including LL that could say that the Toronto Maple Leafs portfolio is something they're qualified to do. I think Scotty Bowman's the one man who could say, "I got this" and we'd be foolish not to correct anyone who felt differently.

If the premise is, Dubas's youth and inexperience must yield negative results given others available then it's kinda begging the question. It's also incidental.

I think he was brought in at the right time. I think he's been groomed well. The transition couldn't have been better. And he - despite the convenience in the argument - isn't working alone. He's a piece of the managerial puzzle that unequivocally understand cap constraints and possibilities.

Lost in all of this is Lawrence Gilman and Brandon Pridham. What responsibility do you believe they merit in Nylander's signing, Matthews' signing and Tavares' signing?

What it conveys to me - much like the reality of acquiring certain desired positional players - is that there are elements in most negotiations that are beyond control and as important, beyond a management team's desire to break if it means losing the exceptional piece.

 

[cookie]

Could It be the five year contract was influenced in part by Mathews and his recurring shoulder injury? Not too big a fan of the signing, btw.

 

[17 Clark]

He's a Brock graduate? Nvm this all makes sense now. Expect nothing less from a Brock grad.

Other Matthews is still hurt or he’s playing with a little chip his shoulder because he was not paid the most on the team now he is sorry it seems like our GM Likes To Placate millenniums

 

[rumman]

I can just picture Mark Hunter sitting with his feet up on his desk in London with a cold beer in his hands and wry smile on his face.

 

[Polaris1010]

Actually, I do not think Dubas is a capable NHL general manager.

He is learning on the job.

The drawback obviously is that if or when he figures out the ropes, this team is already old.

At least the organization has Babcock, the only guy who knows what he is doing.

Shanahan should be retired by upper management.

 

[ITM]

I can just picture Mark Hunter sitting with his feet up on his desk in London with a cold beer in his hands and wry smile on his face.

Everyone makes mistakes.

Carter Hart might be his biggest.

 

[17 Clark]

Actually, I do not think Dubas is a capable NHL general manager.

He is learning on the job.

The drawback obviously is that if or when he figures out the ropes, this team is already old.

At least the organization has Babcock, the only guy who knows what he is doing.

Shanahan should be retired by upper management.

I totally agree next up mitch and Mr. millennium will pay him whatever he wants thing is he deserves it a lot more than Matthew

 

[robertmac43]

This is year 5 for Shanny. 5 years without a playoff win really should be enough to get him fired

You expected a play off win in the first 3? I think Shanny is really only 0-1 in Playoff series this team really could have won.

 

[WTFMAN99]

We can and we will (overpay).

I’m not sure I’d trust Dubas to run a toll booth at this point.

 

[613Leafer]

2/2 on overpaying our RFAs. I generally like Dubas, but he's now gotten the short end of the stick in both his major RFA contract negotiations so far. 2nd highest caphit in the league on only a 5 year deal with a NMC at the first opportunity.

We just gave him McDavid/Crosby/Malkin money despite never playing at that level. He's never finished top 10 in points, nor has he even projected to do so if you ignore his injuries. On a 5 year deal, ~9.5M would have been fair. This was a solid overpay.

 

[ElbowLander]

I totally agree next up mitch and Mr. millennium will pay him whatever he wants thing is he deserves it a lot more than Matthew

No he doesnt

 

[zeke]

hmm.

the guys who call matthews a "69pt player" don't trust dubas.

weird.

 

[kb]

hmm.

the guys who call matthews a "69pt player" don't trust dubas.

weird.

Mostly the same ones who call Marner a 100 point player?

 

[forecheck]

He has lost 2 negotiations now...

Nylander - Loss
Mathews - Loss = an eventual over payment for Marner

 

[Contenderorpretender]

I'm probably ly in the minority. But, after watching Dubas speak yesterday. I actually am more confident with this management group. I dont care what other GM's think of these contracts. I dont care what other fans think. I only want this team to win. And I personally believe that this team has the talent to accomplish that.

 

[17 Clark]

Mostly the same ones who call Marner a 100 point player?

Matthews has proved nothing to deserve that money not saying he is not a good player but he is no Crosby And I think overall that Mariners got more points at this point in his Career rookie gum Will get taken to the cleaners again

 

[Its not your fault]

At least all our bad contracts have there best years ahead of them.

 

[kb]

Matthews has proved nothing to deserve that money not saying he is not a good player but he is no Crosby And I think overall that Mariners got more points at this point in his Career rookie gum Will get taken to the cleaners again

His Calder trophy and points per game suggest he is a much better player. Plus he is playing with wingers that average half a point per game. Mitch plays with a top 10 player in the league.

 

[diceman934]

His Calder trophy and points per game suggest he is a much better player. Plus he is playing with wingers that average half a point per game. Mitch plays with a top 10 player in the league.

So when Mitch produced at over 90 point pace last year after Christmas and in the playoffs then what. By the way he is leading JT in points it is Marner who is influencing him and not the other way around. I do not see anyone complain that they are stuck with Hyman like you and others did all season last year. Mitch has been our best player for over a year now and if our PP gets it stuff together he will explode points wise down the stretch.

 

[bentharbs]

If salaries were tied directly to other salaries without compensating for cap inflation, no one would be making more than $8.7m.

This.

Some people around these parts love to think they are smart, yet continue to use past contracts as barometers for current ones.

 

[gamer1035]

Also, it's obvious dubas bent over even harder than the Nylander deal because the holdout was likely on the back of his mind. What an idiot.

Looks like our window is gone. We can't keep everyone together if everyone is overpaid and taking shorter term ufa deals.

 

[Bomber0104]

This.

Some people around these parts love to think they are smart, yet continue to use past contracts as barometers for current ones.

What's a better way to come up with player values then genius? Spinning the Wheel of Fortune?

No, what seems to be happening is that Dubas is letting commission-earning agents decide for him what their clients are worth....and he rolls over and accepts their demands.

There's no other way to explain how Matthews could get a way better contract than the best player in the world (McDavid).

 

[Trapper]

If you are paying 3 forwards double digits, I don’t believe you can pay any other forwards over 4 million dollars at max.

JT - 11
Matthews - 11.6
Marner - 10 (let’s say)

That’s 32 million for 3 guys.

You still need 10 forwards. At an average of 2 million a piece that’s another 20 million. You need some quality depth, Kadri/Kapanen level and it’s not 800K per.

Are you keeping Muzzin? Gardiner is gone. What’s your D? Muzzin probably takes Marleau’s contract.

In 2 years Andersen will be at least 8 and then Rielly. If you don’t like Zaitsev that’s fine, but you still need a quality RHD of at least 4 + million. You still need 4 D after that. Can’t run with 5 ELC D.

In 3 years:
Matthews -11.6
Tavares - 11
Marner - 10
Rielly - 8
Andersen - 8
Muzzin - 6
Legit RHD - 4

7 players at around 60 million
16 remaining at 2 (average on give or take ELC + guys like Kadri/Kappy/Johnsson making 3-4 mil) = 32 million

 

[bentharbs]

What's a better way to come up with player values then genius? Spinning the Wheel of Fortune?

No, what seems to be happening is that Dubas is letting commission-earning agents decide for him what their clients are worth....and he rolls over and accepts their demands.

There's no other way to explain how Matthews could get a way better contract than the best player in the world (McDavid).

Understanding that $1 in 2016 is not $1 in 2018 - even more (yet perhaps more debatable) is that 16% in 2018 is not 16% in 2018. Things change. There is no perfect way to understand player values other than understanding market conditions, which is exactly what Dubas is paid to do. Time will always tell whether a deal is worth it, but I can assure you that Dubas is better suited to determine that than anyone on this website.

 

[Mess]

During the summer I predicted Tavares new contract will be used as a magnet/ salary escalator by player agents to raise Leafs internal pay scale and to toss out NHL comparables to determine the new contracts for the 3 Amigos.

Matthews @ $12 mil
Tavares @ $11 mil
Marner @ $ 10 mil
Nylander @ $7.5 mil

Those numbers were not well received at the time, and to be fair my numbers were based on 8 year deals with Leafs buying maximum UFA away in those prices incl;uded.

Dubas is handing out those #'s and only getting 1 year of UFA status from players, while leaving 2-3 UFA on the cutting room floor, thanks to seasoned player agents getting the best of him.

As a self proclaimed realist, those Dubas contracts being handed out are even more pessimistic than I feared.. I thought my numbers on 8 year deals were worst case scenario.