Do you consider Matthews a 'Generational' player or talent?

[Zegs2sendhelp]

He hasn’t done anything really generational….

1 mvp, that was obviously stolen…. Honestly still feel bad for Mcdavid.

Top 10 player in the league sure, could argue top 5…. But generational is laughable

 

[abo9]

From a goalscorer point of view he is. He seems to be keeping up with Ovechkin who is his obvious measuring stick.

Durability is the only concern which has nothing to do with his talent.

We didn't speak of Ovechkin as generational until he started threatening Gretzky so it's not unreasonable to want Auston to prove more.

If he can keep his separation from peers up it should become a consideration, especially considering his closest rival leans heavily on a generational player to keep in the conversation.

He's keeping up with > 30 years old Ovechkin*

And Ovechkin was absolutely labelled generational after his first 5 seasons he had a HHOF awards collection.
His playoff resume was always his knock but he got his Cup.

And the Gretzky record chasing just cemented his place as generational.

Matthews' career start isnt even remotely close to Ovechkin's.

But I agree that in terms of goalscoring, he looks lime he might end up his generation's Stamkos or Kovalchuk

 

[Byron Bitz]

Not yet. I’d say McDavid is this generations best player. Now if he can challenge some of Ovechkins records over a long career then we could have two generational guys.

If Matthews isn’t generational, who are the other players of this generation that are similar to Matthews? I can’t think of any other 6 ft 3 centres who are scoring goals at his rate while playing great defence.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Dude will have 500 goals ,last time I checked that is HOF territory...Isnt that the definition of generational??

No, that would mean there is about 290 generational players.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

When they use the term "generational" it's supposed to be strict. It's a term used to describe the quality of a player you see rarely in a lifetime. Howe, Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux feels about right. Even including Sid (debate the separation between him and Jagr, Yzerman, Sakic, Ovechkin all you want) or McDavid (premature) feels like you're watering it down.

I don't know if that's fair. Actually it is fair... your argument is totally valid... but I don't see things that way.

To me, generational is a player that clearly separates themselves over a 10+ year period.

- Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux - simple. Generational NHLer.
- Ovechkin - is he best goal scorer ever? Probably. If not the best, right up there. Generational goal scorer/NHLer.
- Crosby - is he a top 5-10 player in the games 100 year history? Probably. IMO, that qualifies him. Generational NHLer.
- McDavid - is it possible he's the most talented, dynamic player to ever play the game? I'd say so. Of course, he needs to keep it up for at least another 5-10 years to cement his legacy. Potential Generational NHLer.
- Chara - is he the best D of his generation? No, not quite. But, he is arguably the most stand-out physical specimen who has ever played the game, and he was a top 5-10 DMan for close to a decade and a top pair DMan for close to a decade on top of that. I am of the mind that we may never see a player like him, with a career like him, again. To me, that is generational. Generational D/type of player.
- Makar - if he can be in the Norris convo for a decade, which seems entirely possible... that's a generational player. Potential generational D.
- Matthews - if he can score 800 goals while his peers top out at 400-600... that's generational to me. Potential generational goal-scorer.
- Jagr - he isn't quite Howe, that's for sure, but he is the closest we've seen to a Howe 2.0 career in terms of team success, individual success, and longevity. Generational player.

 

[Rengorlex]

Matthews' career start isnt even remotely close to Ovechkin's.

But I agree that in terms of goalscoring, he looks lime he might end up his generation's Stamkos or Kovalchuk

I think Matthews may end up the overall superior player to Ovechkin. His overall game is so much better and I don't see his game falling off at 25+ like Ovechkin's did. Kovalchuk is an insulting comparison.

https://twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/1555988462725173249

 

[BlueBaron]

Was that really the case?
Im pretty sure he was labeled generational after few first years which were his peak.

Several Cap fans have supported this.

 

[norrisnick]

I think Matthews may end up the overall superior player to Ovechkin. His overall game is so much better and I don't see his game falling off at 25+ like Ovechkin's did. Kovalchuk is an insulting comparison.

https://twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/1555988462725173249

PP not mattering is a pretty hot take.

 

[Voight]

The phrase "generational player" has lost all meaning if Matthews is considered one.

He's a top 5 player in the league, some may argue only top 10.

But if he was generational then he'd be at the very least considered a top 2 player.

The title of generational player should be reserved for very few.

It's not an insult to say Matthews isn't, because he's not one. His fans don't need to defend *everything*.

Bill Zito called Tkahcuk a generational player a month ago

Gretzky
Orr
Mario
Howe
Sid (imagine if he never lost his prime to injury)

Everyone else are exceptional franchise players.

+Ovy,

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think Matthews may end up the overall superior player to Ovechkin. His overall game is so much better and I don't see his game falling off at 25+ like Ovechkin's did. Kovalchuk is an insulting comparison.

https://twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/1555988462725173249

Lol at OVs game falling off at 25, he also played and hit like a truck.

Over 500 goals , since he turned 25.

 

[Christ]

Let us see how his career pans out before putting a label like this on a player. He is a supremely gifted goal scorer and a unique talent but injuries have been a concern and could derail him. Let us enjoy watching his career unfold before we try to decide just where he belongs in our list of all-time greats.

 

[BlueBaron]

He's keeping up with > 30 years old Ovechkin*

And Ovechkin was absolutely labelled generational after his first 5 seasons he had a HHOF awards collection.
His playoff resume was always his knock but he got his Cup.

And the Gretzky record chasing just cemented his place as generational.

Matthews' career start isnt even remotely close to Ovechkin's.

But I agree that in terms of goalscoring, he looks lime he might end up his generation's Stamkos or Kovalchuk

Well if someone can show a source that would be nice. I've had a Caps fan already support the statement.

As for not remotely close...compare their goals per 60 at this stage in Ovechkins career and get back to me.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Gretzky
Mario Lemieux
Orr

Are the only generational players the NHL has ever seen.

Ovi and Howe are great compilers due to longevity but the separation from the rest of the league isn't there. Same with Crosby and McDavid.

Generational players are just racking up Hart and Ross awards year after year.


Generational defensemen are racking up Norris trophies while being in the top 10 in scoring.

 

[abo9]

I think Matthews may end up the overall superior player to Ovechkin. His overall game is so much better and I don't see his game falling off at 25+ like Ovechkin's did. Kovalchuk is an insulting comparison.

https://twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/1555988462725173249

My bad about Kovalchuk I was trying to reach a bit, but the Steven Stamkos comparison was spot on goalscoring-wise.

I have to agree that Ovechkin's overall play fell off a cliff after 2010, Matthews could have a bigger impact for the redt of his career but Ovechkin still did considtently win Rockets afterwards, so we'll see.

pre-2010 Ovechkin was better than Matthews to date by a solid margin. There was no point in discussing it at the time, it was Crosby/Ovechkin and Malkin. Today, nobody sane lumps McDavid and Matthews together. Matthews is discussed in the tier below with Draisaitl and Kucherov and Mackinnon.

And his playoff resume obviously hurts until he has a breakout year in the playoffs.

for reference, the few generational players I have post lockout are Crosby, McDavid and Ovechkin*

*Even as a fanboy, I admit that he would probably not be included if he did not have an absurd goalscoring longevity, and wasnt chasing the record. He was p'ayimg at the right level pre-2010 but not after. Which imo is saying something about Matthews' label as a generational player: unless he replixates a few completely dominant seasons, he'd need to chase the record to be in the conversation and he's not exactly on track for that.

So, imo, he doesnt belong in the Crosby/McDavid/Ovechkin tier and its a "no" for generational label.

 

[BlueBaron]

Lol at OVs game falling off at 25, he also played and hit like a truck.

Over 500 goals , since he turned 25.

Lol at mocking people without knowing the facts.

10-11 79 games 32 goals
11-12 78 games 38 goals

He then rebounded to have 3 50sh goal seasons before 3 years in the 30s.

He's had some ups and downs. It's just a 30+ goal down is hard to get upset over.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

He's a generational scorer but the other arguments of player is harder to say because McDavid casts a bigger shadow right now

 

[Golden_Jet]

Lol at mocking people without knowing the facts.

10-11 79 games 32 goals
11-12 78 games 38 goals

He then rebounded to have 3 50sh goal seasons before 3 years in the 30s.

He's had some ups and downs. It's just a 30+ goal down is hard to get upset over.

Lol at not knowing the facts, I posted them, 500 plus goals since 10/11,
That is a fact.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[norrisnick]

Gretzky
Mario Lemieux
Orr

Are the only generational players the NHL has ever seen.

Ovi and Howe are great compilers due to longevity but the separation from the rest of the league isn't there. Same with Crosby and McDavid.

Generational players are just racking up Hart and Ross awards year after year.


Generational defensemen are racking up Norris trophies while being in the top 10 in scoring.

If Howe isn't generational then Lemieux isn't. People look at Howe playing into his 50s and don't realize that in his prime he dominated the league to a degree that only Wayne and Mario have since.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Definitely not. He'd have to be on par with McDavid but he's not, by a significant gap, and that's bc McDavid actually is generational.

 

[bobholly39]

If Howe isn't generational then Lemieux isn't. People look at Howe playing into his 50s and don't realize that in his prime he dominated the league to a degree that only Wayne and Mario have since.

To me better talent is more important than career/accomplishments for being seen as generational.

So Lemieux over Howe for generational if you only pick one of the two (i have both), even if you rank Howe ahead all time.

As a parallel - if i could only pick one player in Habs history as genearational, im leaning Lafleur. Even though, I have all of Beliveau, Richard, Roy and others ranked above him all time, i think for pure talent Lafleur may be #1.

 

[Stephen]

I would say if you’re taking a hard line on what a generational player is supposed to be, then it’s probably going to be a no.

McDavid will most likely end up the generations best player. Still a good 4/5 prime years left from this group, so it’s not written in stone, but right now it’s him.

I tend to agree with the hard line approach.

I don't know if that's fair. Actually it is fair... your argument is totally valid... but I don't see things that way.

To me, generational is a player that clearly separates themselves over a 10+ year period.

- Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux - simple. Generational NHLer.
- Ovechkin - is he best goal scorer ever? Probably. If not the best, right up there. Generational goal scorer/NHLer.
- Crosby - is he a top 5-10 player in the games 100 year history? Probably. IMO, that qualifies him. Generational NHLer.
- McDavid - is it possible he's the most talented, dynamic player to ever play the game? I'd say so. Of course, he needs to keep it up for at least another 5-10 years to cement his legacy. Potential Generational NHLer.
- Chara - is he the best D of his generation? No, not quite. But, he is arguably the most stand-out physical specimen who has ever played the game, and he was a top 5-10 DMan for close to a decade and a top pair DMan for close to a decade on top of that. I am of the mind that we may never see a player like him, with a career like him, again. To me, that is generational. Generational D/type of player.
- Makar - if he can be in the Norris convo for a decade, which seems entirely possible... that's a generational player. Potential generational D.
- Matthews - if he can score 800 goals while his peers top out at 400-600... that's generational to me. Potential generational goal-scorer.
- Jagr - he isn't quite Howe, that's for sure, but he is the closest we've seen to a Howe 2.0 career in terms of team success, individual success, and longevity. Generational player.

I'd give his expanded definition a big thumbs down. Once you expand the "generational" branding to subcategories it just opens things up to "generational two way center" or "generational stay at home defenseman" or "generational power forward goal scorer" etc. and it never ends. Personally, I can enjoy these players without the generational stamp.

Re: Matthews, I'm happy to watch the accomplishments pile up and then survey the career farther down the road. He's hit a new level since the 2021 season and happy to see this continue and see where it ends up.

 

[abo9]

Well if someone can show a source that would be nice. I've had a Caps fan already support the statement.

As for not remotely close...compare their goals per 60 at this stage in Ovechkins career and get back to me.

Source for what?

Auston Matthews first 6 seasons:

Trophy placements:
- Calder: 1
- Harts : 11, 10, 2, 1
- Pearson: 1
- Rocket: 2, 17, 17, 3*, 1, 1
- Art Ross: 20, 58, 42, 9, 5, 6
- Selke: 38, 16, 27, 10
- All star teams: 4, 2, 1

Total stats: 407 GO, 259 goals, 457 points
82gp pace: 52 goals and 92 pts

----------------------------------------

Alex Ovechkin first 6 seasons:
Trophy placements:
- Calder: 1
- Harts : 6, 22, 1, 1, 2, 14
- Pearson: 1, 1, 1
- Rocket: 3, 4, 1, 1, 3*, 18
- Art Ross: 3, 13, 1, 2, 3, 7
- Selke: 30, 50, 28
- All star team: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2

Total stats: 475 GP 301 goals 614 points
82 games pace: 52 goals and 106 pts

----------------------------------------

Alex Ovechkin during Matthews career (31yrs +):
Trophy placements:
- Calder: NA
- Harts : 12, 9, 7, 13, 10
- Pearson:
- Rocket: 16, 1, 1, 1, 18, 4
- Art Ross: 23, 11, 15, 18, 64, 16
- Selke:
- All star team: 3, 3, 1, 3, 9, 4
- Conn Smythe: 1

Total stats: 435 games, 255 goals, 446 pts
82 games pace: 48 goals and 84 pts


----------------------------------------

Give me a young Ovechkin before young Matthews any day of the week.

Give me past two season Matthews before past 2 seasons Ovechkin any day of the week.

 

[Xspyrit]

He will end up top-3 in goals scoring history so yeah, that's probably generational. And it's not because there is already a generational player that there can't be a few ones... Different positions, different roles, etc

 

[norrisnick]

To me better talent is more important than career/accomplishments for being seen as generational.

So Lemieux over Howe for generational if you only pick one of the two (i have both), even if you rank Howe ahead all time.

As a parallel - if i could only pick one player in Habs history as genearational, im leaning Lafleur. Even though, I have all of Beliveau, Richard, Roy and others ranked above him all time, i think for pure talent Lafleur may be #1.

Talent is useless if you don't get anything done with it.

Kovalev isn't above Jagr and Lemieux isn't above Howe.

 

[Peasy]

No.

If he can somehow challenge Ovie for total goals by the end of their careers then possibly.

But for now its just McDavid.