Do you consider Matthews a 'Generational' player or talent?

[Rengorlex]

When they use the term "generational" it's supposed to be strict. It's a term used to describe the quality of a player you see rarely in a lifetime. Howe, Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux feels about right. Even including Sid (debate the separation between him and Jagr, Yzerman, Sakic, Ovechkin all you want) or McDavid (premature) feels like you're watering it down.

All hockey players are trained so much better now that it's unlikely we'll ever see that kind of separation again. It's been 40 years since Mario was drafted and all those players came (from Canada) in the 40 years preceeding that. We should be due for more, but it seems everybody knows that it's not going to happen.

 

[byrath]

I absolutely hate that generational ever entered the sports lexicon. It's just a muddy descriptor that leads to overuse which completely dilutes its meaning.

Like priority. If everything is a priority, nothing is.

I'd argue there hasn't been a generational forward since Lemieux before I concede there to be half a dozen since Lemieux.

Definitely, it would be so much clearer to ask something like 'Can Matthews be a top 10 all-time player'. Then we could discuss hockey instead of semantics.

 

[AvroArrow]

Not only is he generational, he’s generational for generational players. He’s set so many records, other generational players can’t touch him: First generational player to never threaten to lead the league in scoring. First generational player to never win a playoff round in his first 6 years. First generational player to be routinely outscored by non generational players.

6th overall in points

3rd overall in points per game, barely behind McDavid and Kuch

#1 goal scorer back to back years

First player to score 60 goals in a season in the last 10 years. On pace to score 60+ goals for 2 consecutive seasons

"never threaten the league in scoring" buddy, he was on pace for 119 points this year, McDavid led the league with 123 in 82 games

Sodium levels at an all time high

 

[TheGoldenJet]

No.

 

[topshelf15]

He is the best shooting center in the league,so yes

 

[MAB1]

He's a generational goal scorer, borderline as an overall player. Out of all players in NHL history who have played at least the same amount of games as Matthews, there's only two with a better goals per game average (Bossy and Lemieux). Matthews is ahead of Ovechkin, Gretzky, Rocket Richard himself, etc. And not to mention he's no slouch defensively.

I think when his career is all said and done he'll be thought of similarly to Malkin. Borderline generational, not the single defining player of his era (Crosby, McDavid).

 

[Canes]

I am a huge fan but no, he'd need to keep scoring 50+ goals regularly til the end of his career.

 

[topshelf15]

Dude will have 500 goals ,last time I checked that is HOF territory...Isnt that the definition of generational??

 

[bobholly39]

No way.

Guys like Crosby/McDavid are generational. Matthews is great but obviously not on that level.

I dont consider any of Messier/Sakic/Yzerman generational to give a few comparisons - and I highly doubt Matthews come close to any of them for career

 

[BlueBaron]

Dude will have 500 goals ,last time I checked that is HOF territory...Isnt that the definition of generational??

I'd say it's the definition of elite. However dude is on pace for 500 in his 12th year which is hyper elite. Several players are added each year so they can't all be generational.

 

[bobholly39]

I admit it's unlikely Matthews enjoys Ovies health but he could have a few more 60 goal seasons to help a bit. I predict he'll be 3rd in goals behind Wayne.

1. I dont think he's generational. See my post above explaining why.


But for career goals - we'll see. In my opinion:

95% (could have said 99) he tops 600 goals. Only injuries could stop him, as I think he's well on his way.

~50% chance he tops 700. Impossible to predict how he ages, as he's still young. So, 50/50.

~5-10% chance he tops 800 goals (that would essentially make him 3rd as you predict).

For career starts as a goalscorer he's great but its literally impossible to predict longevity. Just look at Ovechkin:

- first everyone thought he'd have multiple more 60 goal seasons after 2010....instead he drops off a cliff with 2 really underwhelming seasons
- then, halfway in 2013 season, everyone assumed Ovechkin was "done", but he roars back with a crazy goal streak, wins the hart, and i dont even know off hand how many more rockets and 50 goals seasons he added after.

Matthews next year is at the age Ovechkin was when he had his really crappy run in 2011 and 2012. So it's really hard to predict.

 

[BlueBaron]

6th overall in points

3rd overall in points per game, barely behind McDavid and Kuch

#1 goal scorer back to back years

First player to score 60 goals in a season in the last 10 years. On pace to score 60+ goals for 2 consecutive seasons

"never threaten the league in scoring" buddy, he was on pace for 119 points this year, McDavid led the league with 123 in 82 games

Sodium levels at an all time high

This needs to be pinned.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I would say if you’re taking a hard line on what a generational player is supposed to be, then it’s probably going to be a no.

McDavid will most likely end up the generations best player. Still a good 4/5 prime years left from this group, so it’s not written in stone, but right now it’s him.

 

[Kaladin]

I don’t even consider him the second best player of this era. So no.

 

[norrisnick]

I think there should be a thread debating and defining what generational actually means, and then once a consensus is established it should be stickied at the top of every single thread. Or better yet, it should be in a pop up whenever someone opens the site so everyone sees it and understands and maybe....just maybe....the word can come to mean something again.

I think generational should be auto-blocked by the site.

 

[crazy8888]

There should be a third option for time will tell. So far he only had one season that puts him in this tier.

 

[abo9]

Short answer: No, he just hasnt done enough yet and is more of a Stamkos kind of guy right now.

Long answer:

I'm pretty loose on the definition but imo what separates the generational label from superstar/elite is the ability to completely overtake the entire NHL. A generational player also would perform at that level for several years and the only players in the same realm year-in and year-out would be other generational players (ala Crosby vs Ovechkin rivality of past 17 years).

The most recent generational players imo have been Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid. I don't recall any defenseman Drafted since 2005 (Erik Karlsson was the closest but fell shirt). Matthews has had two seasons, but I dont think one season is enough to jump in Generational company. He's more of a Stamkos caliber superstar imo - close but just not there.

Biggest knocks right now are the lack of repeat, and the lack of playoff success.

Lack of repeat: He's had two excellent seasons, with the past one being big on awards. Can he win another Hart/Pearson and even perhaps steal an Art Ross from McDavid? Imo he's just not consistently competing with McDavid for being the best player in the NHL. He's competing with guys like Draisaitl, Mackinon and Kucherov for 2nd best player. And none are touching McDavid.

Lack of playoff success: As a big Ovechkin fanboy, I am a bit lenient here - Ovechkin is not the greatest playoff performer relative to his RS success, but still had shown something by that time in his career.

Matthews goes from scoring at a 52 goals per 82 games rate in the regular season to 35 in the playoffs while being sub ppg. And he hasn't looked like a game changer in any of the playoff series that he's played. That's a knock on being considered generational imo. You gotta be there when it counts.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

It’s hard because McDavid is in his generation. If you describe generational player as a once a generation, generation defining player, then he is not. I do consider him a generational goal scorer though. Cale Makar is a generational defenseman.

 

[Holymakinaw]

In terms of his sheer impact on the ice and dominance vs his peers, I think he's on the fence. But given how unique and valuble his skillset is, very reliable center who pots an shitlton of goals 5on5, think that pushes him into generational for me.

Flame away...or agree?

No, not even close.

 

[keglu]

From a goalscorer point of view he is. He seems to be keeping up with Ovechkin who is his obvious measuring stick.

Durability is the only concern which has nothing to do with his talent.

We didn't speak of Ovechkin as generational until he started threatening Gretzky so it's not unreasonable to want Auston to prove more.

If he can keep his separation from peers up it should become a consideration, especially considering his closest rival leans heavily on a generational player to keep in the conversation.

Was that really the case?
Im pretty sure he was labeled generational after few first years which were his peak.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

I don’t understand why people are so into these meaningless semantic arguments…

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Dude will have 500 goals ,last time I checked that is HOF territory...Isnt that the definition of generational??

No.

Generational means a once in a lifetime type player.

Think Orr, Howe, Gretzky, Mario

 

[topshelf15]

No.

Generational means a once in a lifetime type player.

Think Orr, Howe, Gretzky, Mario

It can but Matthews likely is the best goal scoring center of this generation,and that isnt nothing

 

[JackSlater]

I'd need to see a better start and a more clear level of dominance by this age. The only thing that gives me pause is that he grew up in such a different hockey environment than guys like McDavid, Ovechkin, or Crosby so he might be due a bit more time. So I guess I'll give him two years or so but he needs to show that he can be a step above everyone else, with an allowance made for McDavid, a few times.

 

[Suntouchable13]

No. Generational players actually do something special in game 7s. Not just put up fancy numbers in the regular season. All generational players have done special things in the post-season. Matthews has not done shit in the playoffs.