Do you believe in Dubas?

[sparxx87]

Other teams didn't plan ahead to a $100M cap and give 4 forwards $40M. It was a good plan but covid killed it.

So relying on money you don’t have and aren’t guaranteed is a good plan?

I know what you don’t do for a living.

 

[DarkKnight]

Oh man, Lou was coming up constantly today on talk radio. A lot of Dubas guys on air are changing their tune pretty quick it seems. Interesting to hear.

 

[yubbers]

The problem with Dubas was the covid cap freeze. The plan was a good one if it weren't for covid as the team was built to peak with a $90-100M cap. We've lost at least a few years of the core because of covid.

LOL. Yeah...no other teams had to deal with it. Just the Leafs.

 

[yubbers]

Other teams didn't plan ahead to a $100M cap and give 4 forwards $40M. It was a good plan but covid killed it.

Ok. So Covid doesn't happen. Where's the cap and who does that let us get?

 

[Stamkos4life]

How are there almost 50 "leaf fans" that still trust dubas?

Back in 2018 when dubas took over as gm, if I told you guys that after 3 years we would:

- still have no series wins
-lose to our own 40 yo emergency back up
-have a terrible cap structure
-lose to the pens ahl team
-have the players tune out not one but two coaches

Would you still have wanted him hired as gm?

This is what has happened under dubas. We don't need to guess or get a fortune teller. The games have been played. The results are in.

Dubas is trash.

 

[666]

So relying on money you don’t have and aren’t guaranteed is a good plan?

I know what you don’t do for a living.

Actually expecting the stock market and other investments to increase is a very good plan.
The league had a new TV deal and a new team paying huge fees coming up. It was smart to account for that. If you predicted covid then I'm impressed.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Other teams didn't plan ahead to a $100M cap and give 4 forwards $40M. It was a good plan but covid killed it.

I can't believe the other gms knew the pandemic was coming but refused to tell dubas!

Your excuses is very weak.

 

[666]

As it turns out, it wasn't a good plan

A lot of people didn't predict covid.

 

[WTFMAN99]

His biggest issue by far has been his misread and stubborness on Mitch Marner. I'll defend the Matthews contract to the death as being justified based on market forces, but Marner's just wasn't. He got to the OS period. We knew what offers were out there. He's not Matthews. He's not Gilmour. On a team with Matthews/Tavares/Nylander he's a luxury. Either put the kid in his place or let him go. Three straight off-seasons where trading Marner was if not the right move, then a very justified one. But he's tripled down now.

The Sandin stubborness is approaching that level, albeit not on the same scale of impact.

.

Eichel - 10M 8 years

McDavid - 12.5M 8 years

Matthews - 11.6M (sure yes!!) - 5 years...what the f***? I'm along for the ride until the term is brought up. he got 8 year money but only signed for 5 years. It should have been 8-9M for 5 years if he didn't want to sign for 8. There was no concession made.

 

[DarkKnight]

Someone said Shanny should fire Dubas now and assume the role as well, it’s not like other haven’t. Could look for a guy in off season or actually see what he’s got himself. This experiment has failed and this GM can’t retool this group properly, he’s too invested, it’s an admission of his own failure.

 

[666]

I can't believe the other gms knew the pandemic was coming but refused to tell dubas!

Your excuses is very weak.

Some of the other GM's couldn't even spend up to the cap and the others didn't have the opportunity to sign Tavares for no assets. We did the right things. A few years of cap crunch but we had the core locked in. Then as the cap started hitting $90M+ around this year we would be peaking.

 

[sparxx87]

Actually expecting the stock market and other investments to increase is a very good plan.
The league had a new TV deal and a new team paying huge fees coming up. It was smart to account for that. If you predicted covid then I'm impressed.

This isn’t the stock market, though. These are humans. They’re unpredictable. A knee injury in practice doesn’t sewer your stock.

I didn’t predict it, but people much smarter than me did. Obama had assembled a pandemic response unit which the following administration tore down and redistributed funds.

It wasn’t unforeseen at all.

 

[sparxx87]

Some of the other GM's couldn't even spend up to the cap and the others didn't have the opportunity to sign Tavares for no assets. We did the right things. A few years of cap crunch but we had the core locked in. Then as the cap started hitting $90M+ around this year we would be peaking.

Ah yes. Dubas did all the right things and this is just bad luck.

Bizarre how naive some can be.

… and this is your idea of Tavares peaking? Salary cap or no salary cap, he looks like he’s added another pound of mix to those concrete skates he wears.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Some of the other GM's couldn't even spend up to the cap and the others didn't have the opportunity to sign Tavares for no assets. We did the right things. A few years of cap crunch but we had the core locked in. Then as the cap started hitting $90M+ around this year we would be peaking.

Imagine seeing the results and still thinking dubas made the right moves.

The NHL is a results oriented business. You don't get brownie points for trying.

We know for a fact that dubas' plan has failed. That's on him. Not Lou, not babs, not Freddy, not marner and not the flat cap.

At some point people need to realize the gm is the one responsible for the team. If we win the cup dubas will get praised. But since he has been an abject failure it is only fair that people blame him.

 

[4thline]

Eichel - 10M 8 years

McDavid - 12.5M 8 years

Matthews - 11.6M (sure yes!!) - 5 years...what the f***? I'm along for the ride until the term is brought up. he got 8 year money but only signed for 5 years. It should have been 8-9M for 5 years if he didn't want to sign for 8. There was no concession made.

McDavid's contract was not what he was worth. It's that simple. Matthews knew that and as such didn't believe it altered his worth. We weren't willing to test if the market agreed.

 

[All Mod Cons]

You don't understand. We weren't supposed to contend the last few years or probably even this year. This team is structured for the cap to be $15 - $20M higher. That's some significant upgrades in places where we need it. Other teams didn't give half of the cap to 4 guys or pay a 2C $11M. Dubas was thinking ahead and covid ruined his well laid plans. Now we can't afford to upgrade some major pieces and then when the cap will start to get up there again our stars will need to be re-signed and we'll be screwed again.

Oh
My
God

 

[666]

Ah yes. Dubas did all the right things and this is just bad luck.

Bizarre how naive some can be.

It appears that you just don't get it. It's not naive to have not predicted covid. Yes, covid was REALLY bad luck. The absolutely worst possible thing happened to the Leafs, the cap froze due to a pandemic. And even with that happening we still have the assets. Everyone is tradeable even Tavares. That's an option but it has its risks. Another option is wait for the cap to rise again although it will probably be too late.

 

[Ports]

Shanny will let Dubas make the big trade, if it pays off, that’s good. But if it doesn’t, which most likely would happen, Dubas takes the fall and Shanny hire a new GM and a fresh start.
I don’t think Shanny will hire a GM now just to break up the core. Let’s face it, he has to okay any big trades by Dubas, it won’t be Dubas making the trade alone.

Shanahan hired Dubas and likely okayed all his moves. He has to go too. Hire the most experienced, smart President and go from there.

 

[Stamkos4life]

McDavid's contract was not what he was worth. It's that simple. Matthews knew that and as such didn't believe it altered his worth. We weren't willing to test if the market agreed.

How front loaded are mcdavids and eichels contracts?

How much did each get in signing bonuses?

How much more exposure do athletes get in Toronto leading to more sponsorships?

I find it interesting that both mcdavid and ausotn are represented by the same agency.

Yet one went for max term and a reasonable aav while the other went max aav and as short term as possible.

Did the agents drop the ball for mcdavid or is auston just not a team player?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

As it turns out, it wasn't a good plan

Maybe someone can enlighten me on this question: Had the cap gone up as expected...would the guys due for contracts not want more than they are asking for now in a flat cap? If so, are you not in the same boat no matter what when it comes to signing depth? Would Ritchie have asked for 3.5m and gotten it? Would Kase and Kampf be a million or so more?

That is the part of the 4 forwards taking up so much of the cap that I can't quite quantify. You look at this year and the Prime D-men market...people are losing their shit over the Jones and Nurse deals...but how much higher would they be without a flat cap?

 

[PromisedLand]

One thing I don’t get about Dubas is why he brought back Michael Hutchinson for two years after he was brutal in Toronto and was practically run out of town. I get that he’s a third goalie. But of all the pro goalies out there why go back to the well on a guy the fanbase already has PTSD over? Two years ago this guy was front and center in the team hitting the skids and running into a crisis in confidence.

This isn’t a legacy cementing move, just one of those weird annoying tone deaf moves like he’s trying to prove something.

"cap space"

nobody else available that would take pocket change to be a goalie and is of superior quality

 

[showtime8]

I have a lot of respect for Kyle to stick to his guns in the face of huge criticism. I would never be able to do that especially in a market like Toronto. But at some point that's going to be his downfall.

I've always thought that a GM traditionally has 2 major moves that he can make to try and keep his job and/or bide his time. 1 is to fire the coach which he's already done because he didn't like the way his organization was going. The 2nd is a majorish trade. He hasn't used that yet & I'm not sure how much leeway Shanahan is going to give him. He's torched 1st round picks on injured and ineffective players.

I've definitely felt apathetic to this franchise before, but with the amount of build up over the last 5 years and the amount of failure, I think I'm trending towards the Peter Horachek Leafs days.

 

[sparxx87]

It appears that you just don't get it. It's not naive to have not predicted covid. Yes, covid was REALLY bad luck. The absolutely worst possible thing happened to the Leafs, the cap froze due to a pandemic. And even with that happening we still have the assets. Everyone is tradeable even Tavares. That's an option but it has its risks. Another option is wait for the cap to rise again although it will probably be too late.

It burned the Leafs because they gambled they could overpay and wait it out. The cap structure was always a mistake, it just burned them faster than most expected.

I get it now like I got it then. This was always going to turn out bad. COVID or no COVID.

 

[666]

Imagine seeing the results and still thinking dubas made the right moves.

Yes, he made the right moves AT THE TIME when "everyone" was expecting a $100M cap "soon".

Now, he's screwed and does a reasonable job with UFAs as that's all he's got. The only alternative would be drastic but he still has some pretty good assets and very few bad assets.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Eichel - 10M 8 years

McDavid - 12.5M 8 years

Matthews - 11.6M (sure yes!!) - 5 years...what the f***? I'm along for the ride until the term is brought up. he got 8 year money but only signed for 5 years. It should have been 8-9M for 5 years if he didn't want to sign for 8. There was no concession made.

Evidently the team gave Matthews a blank cheque essentially. That is what happens when your GM tries to treat his subbortants as friends rather than employees.