Do we now have a new MUSKOKA 5,?

[AvroArrow]

I have trouble ranking those 3 moves in terms of stupidity.

With the Sauer/Finger mixup I swear Fletch thought we were getting Backes in the Steen deal.

McCabe and Kubina, just dumb. McCabe had 1 bad injury marred season, and this city turned him into an immovable cap dump that had to be moved RIGHT NOW. We added a pick to get a worse defenseman, he returns to form and puts up 3 solid seasons, being named Captain and traded for positive value. Kubina wasn't even underperforming, Burke just wanted a more physical defense so traded a good top pairing dman for a 3rd pair, to free up the cap space for a bad top pairing dman that ended up getting bought out.

Jeff Finger that man hit the lotto

I remember McCabe scoring the OT winner on us when he was with Florida, my dad lost his shit that night

Komisarek was supposed to be our next captain, that was a disaster of a signing.

 

[mikeyz]

You dont have a clue what u are talking about like the op

Show me where I am wrong.

 

[geo25]

You wanted a reaction, you still just want a reaction. Do you have nothing better to do than try and make people miserable. There's multiple threads on this issue but you just had to make a new one with an inflammatory title?

How else will things change? I'm tired of losing teams with an endless barrage of excuses. Inept management and a no show no care President full of hollow words. WTF you want? I'm pissed...

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

How else will things change? I'm tired of losing teams with an endless barrage of excuses. Inept management and a no show no care President full of hollow words. WTF you want? I'm pissed...

It's board to discuss hockey, not your personal therapy section. We've multiple posts about this very topic. I get being frustrated with the team, but comparing them to Muskoka 5 wasn't accurate and there's multiple threads already discussing the challenges of the core, and the cap implications.

 

[Racer88]

Muskoka 5: A group of good/great players that the fanbase and media turned on because of management's inability to get a goalie, leading new management feeling compelled to heavy handedly bully them out of town in a foolish attempt to avoid a rebuild, leading to the leafs having no leverage and getting hosed on every single transaction.

Usually the GM’s inability to get a goalie is because of the overpayments given to those players in question

 

[4thline]

Usually the GM’s inability to get a goalie is because of the overpayments given to those players in question

Swing and a miss. Belfour got old, Raycroft was a one hit wonder.

 

[Racer88]

Swing and a miss. Belfour got old, Raycroft was a one hit wonder.

I guess I misread what you were talking about. I thought you were talking about our new Muskoka five.
My bad

 

[DraftSchmaft]

I admit the name I chose is somewhat misleading and in retrospect should have titled it different. The Muskoka 5 all had no trade clauses and didn't want to leave. "My" Muskoka 5 are Matthews, Reilly, Marner, Nylander & Tavares. This core group hasn't, nor do I think they will ever win us a cup. This core like the previous one deserves to be broken up, dismantled and replaced with a different breed of player. They all have or soon have NTC. If any tinkering should be done it's before those kick in. This group is umpredictable, lethargic, overpaid (not Matthews) and have no leadership abilities. I think one or more should be traded. I don't think Reilly deserved the term and raise he got and I think Matthews should be Captain. But most of all, I believe our entire Mgmt group from the President on down should be changed. keefe...?
I just dont see us winning anything...(let alone the cup) with this core.....
Hope this better defines what I am trying to get at....sorry for any misunderstanding.

Should be obvious you didn't mean a literal comparison and more the sentiment.

I'm actually surprised at the backlash you are getting given 85% don't believe in the core. At the core, pun intended, this thread is just another break up the core thread.

 

[Niagara Bill]

All the battling here is fun to read but frankly if fans cannot see that 60% of the cap spent on 5 players who have demonstrated they cannot win is a plan for continued mediocrity.

 

[geo25]

It's board to discuss hockey, not your personal therapy section. We've multiple posts about this very topic. I get being frustrated with the team, but comparing them to Muskoka 5 wasn't accurate and there's multiple threads already discussing the challenges of the core, and the cap implications.

I am discussing hockey & everything it comes with. You take out the personal involvement and you will stop having fans. Then you don't have to message me or anyone else.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

With Reilly's new contract, 60% of the cap is allocated to 5 players - who have yet to win a Cup....let alone a round. while this 5 may be more talented, they have far less heart, grit & determination (not to mention they cost more) than the Original 5. Question, is history repeating itself? Will we ever when with these 5 prima donnas? Is it possible to when with that much $ is allocatted to only 5 players or.....as I suspect, will this core get management fired and force us to reboot.
What are your thoughts?

Only 2 of 5 have cottages in Muskoka .. da issues are more about TOO much CAP hit in 5 guys rather than da 5 guys .. like I said 2Cs 2Ds and a G in 5 guys .. we got 2Cs 2 Ws and 1 D .. it will never work

 

[Tak7]

The Muskoka 5 were all past their primes, or nearing the end of their peaks.

That's a big difference to where we are now, where only Tavares fits that description - Marner, Matthews, Nylander, and potentially even Rielly, still have plenty of growth and upside to them.

 

[geo25]

All the battling here is fun to read but frankly if fans cannot see that 60% of the cap spent on 5 players who have demonstrated they cannot win is a plan for continued mediocrity.

I think most on here agree but what can we do?

 

[geo25]

The Muskoka 5 were all past their primes, or nearing the end of their peaks.

That's a big difference to where we are now, where only Tavares fits that description - Marner, Matthews, Nylander, and potentially even Rielly, still have plenty of growth and upside to them.

We hope...just like stats vs real life

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I think most on here agree but what can we do?

Whine about it incessantly seems like a popular choice.

 

[geo25]

Only 2 of 5 have cottages in Muskoka .. da issues are more about TOO much CAP hit in 5 guys rather than da 5 guys .. like I said 2Cs 2Ds and a G in 5 guys .. we got 2Cs 2 Ws and 1 D .. it will never work

I agree & still await your reply on Shanny's/GM visit & Dubas 10 game prove it scenario!!

 

[HamiltonNHL]

McDavid would be a 6 million dollar player.

McDavid is 3AAV better than the entire league.
Final answer.

 

[Notsince67]

Show me where I am wrong.

If you are slamming away at those so called muskoka 5 players, I cant imagine you were ever a fan of this team for more than a handful of years because the bulk of the modern era was utter dogshit.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I agree & still await your reply on Shanny's/GM visit & Dubas 10 game prove it scenario!!

↑

Pray tell, where did your hear this? I believe he is way over his head & more concerned with being the players friends than their Boss... so I hope your statement is true. Wuth Reilly we now have 60% of the pie on 5 players! Unreal....​

No idear what was said .. but when a prez makes an unexpected trip somewhere to visit his GM and does not do it on a phone call which is much easier then you have to ask yourself why? .. now it appears as if it may have been to discuss and/or approve da Rielly signing and what leeway Dubie had to finalize negotiations .. maybe he wanted those discussions in private for whatever reason .. given how things played out that would be my bet right now in hindsight

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Muskoka 5: A group of good/great players that the fanbase and media turned on because of management's inability to get a goalie, leading new management feeling compelled to heavy handedly bully them out of town in a foolish attempt to avoid a rebuild, leading to the leafs having no leverage and getting hosed on every single transaction.

100% false.

The name originated when they were past their prime and it was obvious to admit defeat and rebuild. Re-stock the cupboard quick selling these guys. Prior to that these were all fan favorites. The hate came when it was justified Leafs need to move on.

They all declined to waive and we got no assets at the deadline. They got jabbed with the name Muskoka 5.


Anything else said about it is make believe. There are some massive fan favorites in that group with the exception of Kubina.

 

[4thline]

100% false.

The name originated when they were past their prime and it was obvious to admit defeat and rebuild. Re-stock the cupboard quick selling these guys. Prior to that these were all fan favorites. The hate came when it was justified Leafs need to move on.

They all declined to waive and we got no assets at the deadline. They got jabbed with the name Muskoka 5.


Anything else said about it is make believe. There are some massive fan favorites in that group with the exception of Kubina.

Media and fan driven narrative. McCabe had a down season with injury, and Tucker was on the way out. But overall those 5 players were performed quite well., and the group was let down by goaltending year after year.
Would have been nice to get assets for Sundin, and especially nice to avoid the Tucker buyout in hindsight.

But Kubina and McCabe not waiving was a lifeline from our own stupidity, both had term left, both were good hockey players. The combo of the hate directed their way and management feeling the need to act on it was a comedy of errors.

How Fletch/Burke handled them after they didn't waive at that deadline did far more damage than their decision not to waive.

 

[geo25]

↑

Pray tell, where did your hear this? I believe he is way over his head & more concerned with being the players friends than their Boss... so I hope your statement is true. Wuth Reilly we now have 60% of the pie on 5 players! Unreal....​

No idear what was said .. but when a prez makes an unexpected trip somewhere to visit his GM and does not do it on a phone call which is much easier then you have to ask yourself why? .. now it appears as if it may have been to discuss and/or approve da Rielly signing and what leeway Dubie had to finalize negotiations .. maybe he wanted those discussions in private for whatever reason .. given how things played out that would be my bet right now in hindsight

Thanks!

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Media and fan driven narrative. McCabe had a down season with injury, and Tucker was on the way out. But overall those 5 players were performed quite well., and the group was let down by goaltending year after year.
Would have been nice to get assets for Sundin, and especially nice to avoid the Tucker buyout in hindsight.

But Kubina and McCabe not waiving was a lifeline from our own stupidity, both had term left, both were good hockey players. The combo of the hate directed their way and management feeling the need to act on it was a comedy of errors.

But what's the point keeping McCabe and Kubina around for a rebuild? Remember this is 2008 we are talking about here. It was just natural circle of life that it was time to pull the plug and re-stock. Regardless of the "why" or "how", we were cooked by 2008....it was time to sell.

They blocked the re-stock and got teased with the nickname Muskoka 5 for it. People had a good reason to be upset. We needed picks and prospects and were starving for young talent. There was no stanley cup coming for this team, time expired.

Otherwise, these guys were loved here until the final dark days. To this day I'm sure people are over it now and still like them. If it was anything more deep than that natural cycle of starting fresh the hate would have extended to today. Does any one here actually hate Tucker? McCabe? SUNDIN??? Nope.

 

[4thline]

But what's the point keeping McCabe and Kubina around for a rebuild? Remember this is 2008 we are talking about here. It was just natural circle of life that it was time to pull the plug and re-stock. Regardless of the "why" or "how", we were cooked by 2008....it was time to sell.

They blocked the re-stock and got teased with the nickname Muskoka 5 for it. People had a good reason to be upset. We needed picks and prospects and were starving for young talent. There was no stanley cup coming for this team, time expired.

Otherwise, these guys were loved here until the final dark days. To this day I'm sure people are over it now and still like them. If it was anything more deep than that natural cycle of starting fresh the hate would have extended to today. Does any one here actually hate Tucker? McCabe? SUNDIN??? Nope.

They blocked the re-stock *in that moment.* Management get's judged on how they react to the situation. So they blocked trades on deadline 2008. Sucked on that day. But it happened. The fanbase and team's reaction to that did far more damage than the groups decision on that day.

Remember, this is the Fletcher/Burke days we're talking about. There was no rebuild, just an attempt to clean house to enable a prideful attempt to turn the team around on the fly. We would have been better off for that with McCabe/Kubina than with Exelby/Van Ryn. There was ZERO rebuild benefit to those two trades plus the Tucker buyout. Fan and ownership impatience vilified and devalued those guys rather than taking the long road and selling them off over a true rebuild. But that would have required patience and multi-year buy in.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

They blocked the re-stock *in that moment.* Management get's judged on how they react to the situation. So they blocked trades on deadline 2008. Sucked on that day. But it happened. The fanbase and team's reaction to that did far more damage than the groups decision on that day.

Remember, this is the Fletcher/Burke days we're talking about. There was no rebuild, just an attempt to clean house to enable a prideful attempt to turn the team around on the fly. We would have been better off for that with McCabe/Kubina than with Exelby/Van Ryn. There was ZERO rebuild benefit to those two trades plus the Tucker buyout. Fan and ownership impatience vilified and devalued those guys rather than taking the long road and selling them off over a true rebuild. But that would have required patience and multi-year buy in.

Very good points. I agree 100% with these. The "in that moment" was handled very immaturely and stupidly by management. That however I feel is a whole essay on it's own and more deep than the Muskoka 5 nick name. We were not a respected organization around that time. Viewed as a circus. The first thing they did (in my opinion) in the modern era was work on our image before they even started caring about wins.