Line Combos: Do the Leafs have too many offensive defencemen?

[ConnorTO]

as i recall

d scoring was a rare last year

 

[robdicks]

I'd prefer to have an offensive d-man than a defensive one. Defense can be taught. Phaneuf is a two-way, Liles is solid in his own end, Gardiner isn't bad either. Rielly isn't good there yet, but he wouldn't be on the team if we started tomorrow anyways.

 

[Jerkini]

The problem is that our goaltending sucks. We had 30-35 games of genuine stud goaltending in Reimer's rookie season, and this team's fortune changed overnight. Unfortunately, it looks like a book was written on him and he has struggled considerably ever since. There's nothing wrong with our defence. It's our goaltending. It's definitely the worst in the NHL.

 

[4evaBlue]

I believe one of Rielly or Gardiner may be on their way out in a package deal before too long. Once they establish solid trade value for themselves.

I have no issues with Liles' contract. I believe he will be back to his old self (no pun intended) when the season starts up. He's a good mentor for our youngsters, and is from all appearances a great lockerroom presence.

 

[Jerkini]

I have no issues with Liles' contract. I believe he will be back to his old self (no pun intended) when the season starts up. He's a good mentor for our youngsters, and is from all appearances a great lockerroom presence.

I think he'll be very tradable midway through that contract.

 

[4evaBlue]

I think he'll be very tradable midway through that contract.

I have no doubt of that, the question is, how much could he bring as a return. If Burke's hunt for that elusive #1C doesn't go well with all the mess the new CBA will likely create, I feel we may have to part with more valuable pieces/prospects in a package deal.

 

[Jerkini]

I have no doubt of that, the question is, how much could he bring as a return. If Burke's hunt for that elusive #1C doesn't go well with all the mess the new CBA will likely create, I feel we may have to part with more valuable pieces/prospects in a package deal.

I meant he'll be tradable for a prospect + pick, similar to the Kaberle deal but not quite that high a price . Package deal for a #1C? In our dreams

 

[achtungbaby]

Liles is a placeholder until Rielly reaches that level

Really? So Burke knew in January that he was going to be selecting Rielly at the 2012 draft? This whole "stop-gap" thing has gone a little too far.

 

[pooleboy]

I'd rather have mobile D than a immobile D.

 

[pooleboy]

The problem is that our goaltending sucks. We had 30-35 games of genuine stud goaltending in Reimer's rookie season, and this team's fortune changed overnight. Unfortunately, it looks like a book was written on him and he has struggled considerably ever since. There's nothing wrong with our defence. It's our goaltending. It's definitely the worst in the NHL.

Agree with this.

However our goalies aren't worst in the nhl there bottom 5 for sure

 

[pooleboy]

I have no doubt of that, the question is, how much could he bring as a return. If Burke's hunt for that elusive #1C doesn't go well with all the mess the new CBA will likely create, I feel we may have to part with more valuable pieces/prospects
in a package deal.

Its funny how some fans think how easy it is to acquire a goalie and a center. I think we have been granted with a wonerful gm that has brought in some good pieces for scraps and think it should be the same every trade. Even aa had to give up some value for dickey

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Yes we have too many.

We are way too soft.

Liles should be moved because Gardiner is ready enough to play, Holzer needs NHL experience, and Gunn is not going anywhere.

 

[TOGuy14]

The most ideal trade would be if we could flip a guy like LIles for someone like Hammer, but Chicago already has Leddy.

I would also target guys like Nikita Nikitin, Rotislav Klesla, or even a guy like Tim Gleason.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Also we have enough depth coming from the Marlies to replace those who are injured.

 

[Morbo]

With Gardiner and Rielly in the lineup, Liles makes good trade bait.

 

[achtungbaby]

With Gardiner and Rielly in the lineup, Liles makes good trade bait.

Maybe we can get a 2nd round pick for him from a team making a playoff drive.

 

[Drew311]

You never know, maybe Burke is planning on moving one of Gardiner or Rielly in a package for a #1 centre?

Leafs seem to be very high on Liles and they can use a veteran leader on the back end. Komisarek can't even tie his own skates, and will most likely be gone next year. It's high risk to have all of Gardiner, Rielly, Holzer and Franson on the same squad.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

You never know, maybe Burke is planning on moving one of Gardiner or Rielly in a package for a #1 centre?

Why do I have a feeling that Leaf fans would be angry for a move like that. I would hope they wouldn't be resistant.

 

[Commander Clueless]

So Toronto traded for him for a 2nd round pick when he was far cheaper and not concussed.

What forces a team to trade a 2nd for him with such an expensive contract, a concussion, and only 2nd pairing ability on a really bad team? Keep in mind his best years are probably behind him with age and concussion to keep in mind.

At the least you are saying that Liles could be traded. Who knows, he could be.

That leaves Phaneuf, Rielly, and Gardiner.

I don't think Gardiner or his agent would appreciate third pairing minutes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Liles' cap hit was actually higher when the Leafs traded for him, was it not?


To me, Phaneuf isn't an offensive defenseman in the same sense that Liles, Gardiner and Rielly are. Neither is Franson. Phaneuf is more two way than the others.

Still I agree, Liles Gardiner and Rielly on the same time is a recipe for disaster. We need more effective defensive types as well.

Liles, while a very good player, is likely on his way out when Rielly makes the team. We could afford to trade Liles or other offensive prospects for more solid defensive guys.

 

[bobermay]

The Liles hate is astonishing. He's a really solid player.

To be honest, I really don't want to rush Reilly. Heck, send him to the Juniors for another year. It won't hurt his development, especially since if Moose Jaw isn't good next year, they will trade him to a contender. Its like the Peitrangelo treatment. I believe it helped Peitrangelo a TON not rushing him the way St. Louis did. Could do wonders from Reilly as well.

 

[Bomber0104]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Liles' cap hit was actually higher when the Leafs traded for him, was it not?

I'm not looking at cap hit so much as the full dollar value of the contract.

Liles is more expensive now than he was last year.

To me, Phaneuf isn't an offensive defenseman in the same sense that Liles, Gardiner and Rielly are. Neither is Franson. Phaneuf is more two way than the others.

Well Phaneuf is known to be erratic defensively and that's why he's always had a defensive defenceman play with him the NHL whether it be Robyn Regher or Keith Aulie or Carl Gunnarsson. Most coaches seem to like to insulate Phaneuf's sloppy defensive play with a stay at home player (which Gardiner, Rielly, and Liles are simply not).

Still I agree, Liles Gardiner and Rielly on the same time is a recipe for disaster. We need more effective defensive types as well.

Seems to suggest at least one of these players can't be on this team in 1 to 2 years time (when Rielly should break in the lineup).

Liles, while a very good player, is likely on his way out when Rielly makes the team. We could afford to trade Liles or other offensive prospects for more solid defensive guys.

Maybe Rielly gets the third pairing minutes. What if he is actually as good as the hype though? What if he forces the issue to get more minutes because he is that good?

He shouldn't be playing with Phaneuf or Gardiner.

Would Gardiner and his agent be pleased with third pairing minutes?

 

[Drew311]

Well Phaneuf is known to be erratic defensively and that's why he's always had a defensive defenceman play with him the NHL whether it be Robyn Regher or Keith Aulie or Carl Gunnarsson. Most coaches seem to like to insulate Phaneuf's sloppy defensive play with a stay at home player (which Gardiner, Rielly, and Liles are simply not).

I think the reason why Phaneuf has been historically paired with stay at home defensemen is because he has been given the freedom to rush the puck and jump into the play in the offensive zone. Coaches know this is when Phaneuf is at his best, and he needs a partner that is willing to stay back and be ready for the possible odd man rush which could occur from Phaneuf being so aggressive. Everyone expects Phaneuf to be some stud two-way defenseman who should never make a mistake in the defensive zone. This will never be the case. He's either going to be an offensive puck rushing threat or be transformed into a strong stay at home defenseman. Personally, I hope Carlyle doesn't try to turn him into the latter.

 

[Bomber0104]

Phaneuf - Gunnarsson
Gardiner - Ranger
Rielly - Holzer

 

[Mystifo]

As Dreamkur said, Liles is on an expensive, long-term contract.

Not all that tradeable really, in my opinion, especially with questions concerning the concussion he received.

James Wisniewski Cap Hit: $5,500,000 for 6 years 27 pts

Christian Ehrhoff Cap Hit: $4,000,000 for 10 years 32 pts

Matt Carle Cap Hit: $5,500,000 for 6 years 38 pts

JML Cap Hit: $3,875,000 for 5 years 27 pts


Compared to other with a similar skill set I think JML took a pay cut on that contract for what he brings. (Also bare in mind JML suffered a concussion and missed significant time and when he did come back was a shadow of his former self.)

 

[p.l.f.]

i would trade liles in a heartbeat for a tough stay at home D