Do CHL to AHL Eligibility Rules Need a Change?

[Crede777]

Yes, I agree.... The best player in a 5th tier league is also a star in that league. But how does that help the NHL?

Also, I could be wrong here, but I thought that many if not most of the best junior players are coming to the NHL via the CHL... Maybe forcing the CHL to copy less successful leagues is not the answer.
Even top European draftees often choose CHL over euro leagues, and there is a simple reason for that.

It helps the NHL because younger players getting more playing time helps their development and gives NHL scouts more information to evaluate. Plus, the ability to directly manage a drafted player during the regular season is beneficial for the team too. Quality of competition is good, but it doesn't compare to the sheer importance of playing time and attention from coaches.

To the extent that players will choose the CHL over Euro leagues, that is due to the fact that Euro leagues give more playing time to veterans over the young players. Which only reinforces the argument for why removing some drafted players from the CHL would improve the development of players who are not yet draft eligible.

 

[nturn06]

It helps the NHL because younger players getting more playing time helps their development and gives NHL scouts more information to evaluate. Plus, the ability to directly manage a drafted player during the regular season is beneficial for the team too. Quality of competition is good, but it doesn't compare to the sheer importance of playing time and attention from coaches.

To the extent that players will choose the CHL over Euro leagues, that is due to the fact that Euro leagues give more playing time to veterans over the young players. Which only reinforces the argument for why removing some drafted players from the CHL would improve the development of players who are not yet draft eligible.

So younger players should play in CHL and not the AHL, because they will be getting more playing time and thathelps their development, right?

I am sorry, but no matter how you are looking at this: if the entire premise of the thread is that very good young players should be moving to AHL because playing against tougher opposition helps their development, you cannot argue at the same time that watering down the league helps players development.

Yes, I get it: having fewer star players will give more ice time to good and decent players. But more ice time against weaker opposition is not always better.

More importantly, with Forwards, D-men and Goalies developing on different scales, I do believe that these proposed changes will hurt a lot the development of (defensive) D-men and goalies. They will not be ready to move to AHL and they will never really learn to play defense playing against second tier players.

People underestimate how much playing against (much) better players can help the development of a good prospect... Which I find ironic since the entire premise of this thread is that some (very few) players need to play against better opponents, for their development.

 

[nbwingsfan]

A problem can be if the prospect is huge, and finds it way too easy to score in junior and form bad habits

Tom Wilson was brought to the NHL for this reason. He ideally would have gone to the AHL

Tom Wilson and his 23G in 48 games in junior found it “too easy to score”?

 

[Kingfan1967]

One player per team per year 2 max , if an exemptional player makes the NHL at 18/19 it stills counts as though he's one of the AHL eligible players , NHL Teams pay minor league teams for players sent to the AHL ,

 

[WarriorofTime]

Also, I could be wrong here, but I thought that many if not most of the best junior players are coming to the NHL via the CHL... Maybe forcing the CHL to copy less successful leagues is not the answer.

LOL, the arrogance. For a long time, Major Juniors was the ONLY path (more or less) to the NHL. Now it's one of a whole bunch of possible paths, its two advantages are that it is the legacy path and that it's the default Canadian path, which is the most hockey rabid producing nation in the world.

 

[Pez68]

While it is true that the CHL is the top "feeder" league for the NHL as far as drafted players is concerned, I would love to see the breakdown when it comes to top six forwards and top four defensemen. It sure seems to me like most NHL "core" guys are drafted out of the USHL, college, and European pro leagues. Plenty of superstars have come out of the OHL, but those guys are few and far between, obviously.

 

[Flukeshot]

There's plenty of players too good for Juniors... they're called the ones who make the NHL as teenagers.

The ones "too good for Juniors" and "not good enough for the NHL" are obviously much much rarer. The effects it would have on their development to not play in the AHL sooner are marginal at best, if not completely irrelevant.


Why do you want to pinch the ECHL out? Who does that benefit? It's a great place for NHL franchises to stick Goaltenders they still want while staying under the contract limit.

I don't mean to cut out the ECHL entirely, I just meant that it's importance might drop a step if Major Jr became more aligned to the NHL including being the home for all draft picks of the team.

And I use Major Jr as a term rather than CHL as I'd expect many or most teams could be in the US.

It's about creating a layer between what the CHL and AHL are today but focused on prospect development.

 

[jigglysquishy]

While it is true that the CHL is the top "feeder" league for the NHL as far as drafted players is concerned, I would love to see the breakdown when it comes to top six forwards and top four defensemen. It sure seems to me like most NHL "core" guys are drafted out of the USHL, college, and European pro leagues. Plenty of superstars have come out of the OHL, but those guys are few and far between, obviously.

5 of the top 10 scorers last year were drafted out of the CHL.

Edit: was actually 6, I didn't know JT Miller played in the CHL

 

[Chan790]

Yes. Simply make the rule the same for everyone. If it kills the CHL, that's not my problem.

I don't think youth sports leagues should be able to hold players good enough to play professionally hostage. It wasn't right when the NCAA did it either.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

While it is true that the CHL is the top "feeder" league for the NHL as far as drafted players is concerned, I would love to see the breakdown when it comes to top six forwards and top four defensemen. It sure seems to me like most NHL "core" guys are drafted out of the USHL, college, and European pro leagues. Plenty of superstars have come out of the OHL, but those guys are few and far between, obviously.

418 CHL graduates named to NHL rosters for 2021-22 regular season | Canadian Hockey League

A total of 418 Canadian Hockey League graduates have been named to final rosters ahead of the 2021-22 National Hockey League regular season.

chl.ca

Here is a breakdown of each team CHL graduates, from the 2021 season.

 

[Pez68]

I don't mean to cut out the ECHL entirely, I just meant that it's importance might drop a step if Major Jr became more aligned to the NHL including being the home for all draft picks of the team.

And I use Major Jr as a term rather than CHL as I'd expect many or most teams could be in the US.

It's about creating a layer between what the CHL and AHL are today but focused on prospect development.

The ECHL is garbage. It produces almost zero NHL talent. Being assigned to the E, as a player, is the final notification that you will never have a career in hockey.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

The ECHL is garbage. It produces almost zero NHL talent. Being assigned to the E, as a player, is the final notification that you will never have a career in hockey.

Generally true...except for goalies. A good number of NHL goalies have spent time in the ECHL.

 

[Voight]

LOL, the arrogance. For a long time, Major Juniors was the ONLY path (more or less) to the NHL. Now it's one of a whole bunch of possible paths, its two advantages are that it is the legacy path and that it's the default Canadian path, which is the most hockey rabid producing nation in the world.

CHL is still the best path to the NHL.

Ideal situation would be if NCAA teams changed their rules so CHL guys could transfer in.

Seriously. NCAA calls them professionals yet they get paid $150/week at best. I get they are still getting paid by their teams, but its not like these kids can get part time jobs during the season.

 

[BlueBaron]

Lol. Funny thread. Raging against the best development league for an agreement they have with the NHL .

Let's change everything because an HF poster is mad his prospect isn't on his farm team....

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Anyone who is drafted by an NHL team, is too good for juniors. It's the entire reason they were drafted to begin with. They just don't belong in that league. The fact that these players can either play in the NHL, or go back to shitty junior hockey, is a f***ing joke. There needs to be other options.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. Look at the Sea Dogs last season who won the memorial cup. Dufour dominated yes. What about Francais, Porier, Vilveneau, MacDoanld, and Kuznetzkov. Francis wasn’t even an above average overager and turned over the puck like 5 times a game. Vilveneau never stood out but was solid. Porier was really solid but the season prior he was a huge defensive liability so that extra year really helped develop that area. Kuznetzkov did not look like a 2nd round pick at all did not stand out what so ever. MacDonald was literally on the 4th line. Besides Dufour the 2nd and 3rd best players were probably Lawrence and Sevgini who are not drafted. Dauost who came down from the AHL was far from Dominate. Easily one of the best players on the team but did not stand out on a shiftly basis. He definitely belonged in the league.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Maybe the perception that even very high draft picks are too good for junior (or college or whatever) needs to change?

 

[WarriorofTime]

The ECHL is garbage. It produces almost zero NHL talent. Being assigned to the E, as a player, is the final notification that you will never have a career in hockey.

what do you define as "career"? Plenty of "careers" outside of just the NHL.

CHL is still the best path to the NHL.

The NHL has no reason to care about the concerns about a vassal league, and the CHL will be fine either way. They could change Juniors to 14-18 and have every player afterwards graduate to professional, with the best players in their draft eligible years, and the effect of the league would be the same. The play would be worse, but it's all relative.

 

[Sky04]

While it is true that the CHL is the top "feeder" league for the NHL as far as drafted players is concerned, I would love to see the breakdown when it comes to top six forwards and top four defensemen. It sure seems to me like most NHL "core" guys are drafted out of the USHL, college, and European pro leagues. Plenty of superstars have come out of the OHL, but those guys are few and far between, obviously.

CHL players make up the majority of every core, feel free to point out a team that isn't, it's definitely harder to find one that isn't.

And that's impressive considering you're comparing 3 leagues that operate in Canada only vs the USA and all of Europe......

 

[WarriorofTime]

And that's impressive considering you're comparing 3 leagues that operate in Canada only vs the USA and all of Europe......

It's just the historical legacy path, and the default Canadian path. So that in turn gets a good amount of Americans and Europeans that need to adjust to North American ice as well. There is nothing inherently great about it that suggests it couldn't be easily replaced at a whim if they got p*ssy about the "deal" with the NHL.

The NHL would not suffer any ill repercussions if it ever decided to change the current way of things for one reason or another. The CHL would bend the knee of course because it doesn't want to lose its spot as the most common amateur path to the NHL. It is entirely one-sided leverage that stays in place because it is convenient for the NHL.

 

[Peasy]

Gotta love the irony in people saying it only effects a few players so change it!

If it effects such few players, then why does it need to be changed?

I'd love to see some evidence that supports a prospect going back to this "god awful" junior league being actually detrimental to their development.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Gotta love the irony in people saying it only effects a few players so change it!

If it effects such few players, then why does it need to be changed?

I'd love to see some evidence that supports a prospect going back to this "god awful" junior league being actually detrimental to their development.

Evidence is impossible, because we'll never know what the other "path" would have resulted in. My guess is that it is very marginal to non-existent on longterm development for non-NHL caliber players to play against players their own age another year, just like it wouldn't hurt a guy like McDavid that is already NHL caliber at 17 to play another year in Juniors before going first overall.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

CHL would never agree. Simple as that. They would lose a shit load of more players every year, why would they want that?

I think people really overexaggerate this issue. Teams end up doing more harm than good by holding their prospects hostage imo. Just send them back. If theyre not ready for the NHL then they can still learn stuff in junior.

Agreed. Generally speaking, if they're too good to learn anything at all from CHL hockey they're good enough to not drown in the NHL.

 

[Playmaker09]

Yes. Simply make the rule the same for everyone. If it kills the CHL, that's not my problem.

I don't think youth sports leagues should be able to hold players good enough to play professionally hostage. It wasn't right when the NCAA did it either.

Exactly. Why should adults be held hostage by the CHL when they could be making an actual living wage in the AHL or Europe?

Many of these players will never make the NHL and an athlete's career can end in an instant.

 

[Crede777]

So younger players should play in CHL and not the AHL, because they will be getting more playing time and thathelps their development, right?

I am sorry, but no matter how you are looking at this: if the entire premise of the thread is that very good young players should be moving to AHL because playing against tougher opposition helps their development, you cannot argue at the same time that watering down the league helps players development.

Yes, I get it: having fewer star players will give more ice time to good and decent players. But more ice time against weaker opposition is not always better.

More importantly, with Forwards, D-men and Goalies developing on different scales, I do believe that these proposed changes will hurt a lot the development of (defensive) D-men and goalies. They will not be ready to move to AHL and they will never really learn to play defense playing against second tier players.

People underestimate how much playing against (much) better players can help the development of a good prospect... Which I find ironic since the entire premise of this thread is that some (very few) players need to play against better opponents, for their development.

The point is that it should be up to the NHL team post-draft to decide. If they feel that playing in the CHL with more ice time is better, a drafted player can be sent back. If they feel playing in the AHL is better, then they will be kept. The CHL shouldn't be consulted any more than an NCAA team or a USHL team would be.

I'm not saying every drafted player should go to the AHL, I am saying the NHL team should have sole discretion.

I have stated why I do not believe this will result in a collapse of the CHL. However, if I am wrong and the only reason why the CHL can continue is due to an agreement with the NHL which disproportionately favors it - along with other issues such as avoiding scrutiny for player treatment and player payment - then the CHL in its current form isn't long for this world anyways.

 

[Flukeshot]

The point is that it should be up to the NHL team post-draft to decide. If they feel that playing in the CHL with more ice time is better, a drafted player can be sent back. If they feel playing in the AHL is better, then they will be kept. The CHL shouldn't be consulted any more than an NCAA team or a USHL team would be.

I'm not saying every drafted player should go to the AHL, I am saying the NHL team should have sole discretion.

I have stated why I do not believe this will result in a collapse of the CHL. However, if I am wrong and the only reason why the CHL can continue is due to an agreement with the NHL which disproportionately favors it - along with other issues such as avoiding scrutiny for player treatment and player payment - then the CHL in its current form isn't long for this world anyways.

I would mostly agree to this with the caveat that the player needs to be under contract. The player needs to be getting paid by the NHL club if they are going to influence/control their development. Even if that means increasing the 50 contract per team cap.