Do CHL to AHL Eligibility Rules Need a Change?

[Flukeshot]

The NHL could solve this by buying the CHL.

Man even as a Canadian I've previously thought that at least "Integrating" the CHL into the NHL umbrella would be ideal for this situation. Mostly my mind set is getting people paid for what they do ASAP.

It has the potential to really pinch the ECHL and push them out of the umbrella but if the hierarchy was NHL->AHL->Major Jr than you'd have free flow of contracted players between the 3 levels. The current structure with the ECHL doesn't need to go away but it tends to be infrequently beneficial for the NHL.

It would be really cool to see all drafted players by an NHL team be playing together on a Major Jr team. It would elevate the quality of Major Jr. Economics would determine which markets survive and you'd then see Jr B step up in quality too.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Man even as a Canadian I've previously thought that at least "Integrating" the CHL into the NHL umbrella would be ideal for this situation. Mostly my mind set is getting people paid for what they do ASAP.

It has the potential to really pinch the ECHL and push them out of the umbrella but if the hierarchy was NHL->AHL->Major Jr than you'd have free flow of contracted players between the 3 levels. The current structure with the ECHL doesn't need to go away but it tends to be infrequently beneficial for the NHL.

It would be really cool to see all drafted players by an NHL team be playing together on a Major Jr team. It would elevate the quality of Major Jr. Economics would determine which markets survive and you'd then see Jr B step up in quality too.

except Major Junior doesn't exist or gone successfully in the US..... BASED OFF what the Q tried to do in Plattsburgh and Lewiston.... it wasn't self sustainable

 

[Crede777]

Honestly, once a player is drafted the NHL team should have full control over their development and where they play.

At this point, the CHL / NHL development only really benefits the CHL and is likely in place due to relationships CHL owners have with the league.

If the agreement were abolished, then yes fewer drafted players would return to the CHL. However, this means that players who are not draft age would receive more ice time and focus from coaches. This improves the development of those underage players.

If the loss of drafted players results in financial insecurity for the CHL teams (and I'm skeptical that it would since you're still seeing your hometown CHL team, just more of the young guys), then other leagues such as the NCAA, USHL, and European leagues would easily be able to pick up the development slack. It isn't like American and European born players are suffering any development delays because they're not getting that CHL money trickle down early on.

This also would benefit the AHL and ECHL as it would infuse more young players and potentially add to the draw. It would likely push out some veterans but they would likely go to Europe. The main draw isn't the increased competition for newly drafted players, it's the fact that the NHL team can closely monitor and direct the player's coaching and exercise during the regular season.

 

[3074326]

CHL would never agree. Simple as that. They would lose a shit load of more players every year, why would they want that?

I think people really overexaggerate this issue. Teams end up doing more harm than good by holding their prospects hostage imo. Just send them back. If theyre not ready for the NHL then they can still learn stuff in junior.

This impacts such a small amount of players. The list of players who are not good enough for the NHL/dominating juniors is pretty small. I think you’re overexaggerating the issue, personally.

There should be a rule that allows specific exceptions. It doesn’t have to be more than that.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Man even as a Canadian I've previously thought that at least "Integrating" the CHL into the NHL umbrella would be ideal for this situation. Mostly my mind set is getting people paid for what they do ASAP.

It has the potential to really pinch the ECHL and push them out of the umbrella but if the hierarchy was NHL->AHL->Major Jr than you'd have free flow of contracted players between the 3 levels. The current structure with the ECHL doesn't need to go away but it tends to be infrequently beneficial for the NHL.

It would be really cool to see all drafted players by an NHL team be playing together on a Major Jr team. It would elevate the quality of Major Jr. Economics would determine which markets survive and you'd then see Jr B step up in quality too.

I think the ideal solution would be something along the lines of “integrating” without ownership, where the NHL pays a hefty fee for access to CHL talent.

If they crossed the line into actual ownership, I suspect it would end up in an anti-trust suit. Which would be interesting given the international aspect.

 

[StreetHawk]

This impacts such a small amount of players. The list of players who are not good enough for the NHL/dominating juniors is pretty small. I think you’re overexaggerating the issue, personally.

There should be a rule that allows specific exceptions. It doesn’t have to be more than that.

Let’s not forget that when the nhl returned and the chl was still shutdown the nhl needed a taxi squad thus they had 5 guys who would be in the A on the taxi so these chlers who got time in the A in 2020 were playing against a lower level of typical AHL competition.

 

[Pip]

I think it’s only a potential issue in a very small number of cases. Most prospects are definitely not “too good for Junior” like fans tend to think.

 

[Peasy]

This impacts such a small amount of players. The list of players who are not good enough for the NHL/dominating juniors is pretty small. I think you’re overexaggerating the issue, personally.

There should be a rule that allows specific exceptions. It doesn’t have to be more than that.

Those players are still a draw. If McTavish is comin to town im more likely to go to that game.

 

[Oryxo]

Keeping the CHL as strong as possible benefits the NHL too since it's better for the development of every player in the league to keep the quality of competition as high as possible, including those who haven't even been draft-eligible yet. This could easily lead to more and more players ending up being too good for the league as it becomes weaker.

Anyway, you can probably count on 1 hand (and you wouldn't need every finger) the players that were truly "too good for junior" in the last decade.

 

[Peat]

Ideal situation would be if NCAA teams changed their rules so CHL guys could transfer in.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

Why not just push the draft up a year?

Never understood why they draft these guys so young. Borderline gambling, some of the guys aren't even done growing yet.

Stay in junior another year or go to Europe.

18 is perfect. That's the great thing about hockey and baseball, is that you're picking guys for who they might be 5 years down the road.

Ideal situation would be if NCAA teams changed their rules so CHL guys could transfer in.

That wouldn't benefit CHL players at all going to a league that doesn't develop as many players as the good as the CHL.

 

[ijuka]

Yeah. For first round picks, let the player choose between CHL and AHL.

How many players are there that are too good for CHL and not good enough for NHL? Has to only be a couple players a year. So CHL might in total lose like 4-6 players, across dozens of teams. That doesn't reduce the quality of the league, but it could improve these players' careers a great deal.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

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[Djp]

Because he passed his 9 game ELC limit. Does that only affect his contract or is he not allowed to be sent down to the CHL after those 9 games as well?

if they pass the 9 games they burn year 1. The players contract does not slide which also affects waiver rules and waiver exemption. You don’t want to do this.

f*** the CHL dinosaurs and what they "want".

It's pretty well known that the level of competition can have a great influence on an athlete's development. More and more studies even show that there are optimal ratios of success/failure to maximize learning and development.

It's science.

The CHL is a perfectly adequate league and some players will benefit from being there at 19 and 20 and become great NHL players. For others, though, the CHL may be too easy and the NHL may be to steep of an upgrade. They need to learn at a pro level, but not with the elite.

There are ways to think outside the box and help the CHL without sacrificing the interests of its players. For too long, the CHL has been stubborn and refused to evolve in too many ways.

the science of development is an 8n exact science.

you have some players who exceed at the CHL, but does not at the A. Another player stays in CHL for 2 yrs, does 4 yrs in AHL thrn makes the nhl.

The NFL and NBA have draft restrictions that preclude 18 year-olds.

NFL - 3 years removed from HS graduation
NBA - 1 year removed from HS graduation + must be at least 19 by the end of the calendar year of the draft.

it’s bern talked about raising the age for draft to 19 yrs old and the nhl team would have more player control like 1st and 2nd can go to the AHL.

Man even as a Canadian I've previously thought that at least "Integrating" the CHL into the NHL umbrella would be ideal for this situation. Mostly my mind set is getting people paid for what they do ASAP.

It has the potential to really pinch the ECHL and push them out of the umbrella but if the hierarchy was NHL->AHL->Major Jr than you'd have free flow of contracted players between the 3 levels. The current structure with the ECHL doesn't need to go away but it tends to be infrequently beneficial for the NHL.

It would be really cool to see all drafted players by an NHL team be playing together on a Major Jr team. It would elevate the quality of Major Jr. Economics would determine which markets survive and you'd then see Jr B step up in quality too.

the issue is ECHL are too old for CHL.

Ideal situation would be if NCAA teams changed their rules so CHL guys could transfer in.

Given players getting paid in college, this eligibility rules could change or arrangements made where players in the CHL can maintain ncaa eligibility by restructuring some things Such as players playing in the CHL not yet draft eligible can go to ncaas.

players eligible in 23 play CHL, get drafted, then go ncaa like how USHL players do. The affects of this would be killing the Canadian U18 league that maintains ncaa eligibility.


theother isdue I posed a question about…..

be ause of Covid and the cancelled CHL season of20/21 there are a few players who in 23/23 or 23/24 season would have done 4 yrs in CHL so nhl clubs coukd send them to AHL at 19. Because of the cancelled season 23/23 or 23/24 would be their 4th season thus it appears they have to go back to the CHL.

 

[Djp]

18 is perfect. That's the great thing about hockey and baseball, is that you're picking guys for who they might be 5 years down the road.


That wouldn't benefit CHL players at all going to a league that doesn't develop as many players as the good as the CHL.

difference…

in baseball at 18… player chooses college the team wasted their pick and they re-enter the draft 3 yrs later. Also college scholarships in baseball are very limited for full scholarships. Most are only 50% scholarship. Thr nhl team retains rights

you could change nhl draft rules around Ncaa players where nhl teams could draft junior year nhl players or if players started college or commit to college and drop out of the draft they re eat to a 21 yr old draft age from 18.

ncaa has produced many players who played 1-2 yrs then turned pro. Don’t confuse that with UDFA NCAA market where teams are usually signed after their 3rd or 4th yr of college.

 

[chaser17]

Junior hockey needs these players to sell tickets and survive as a development league for the NHL.

 

[Hull Fan]

The obvious case study right now is Logan Stankoven. He's the reigning WHL player of the year. Kamloops' best player by far and has absolutely nothing left to prove in the WHL. If Dallas didn't have a full roster, cap concerns and Wyatt Johnston he'd be in the NHL. Now going back to Kamloops cause they're in the Memorial Cup isn't the worst situation ever but if Dallas had a choice he'd be in Cedar Park along side his older teammate Bourque.

 

[nturn06]

Honestly, once a player is drafted the NHL team should have full control over their development and where they play.

At this point, the CHL / NHL development only really benefits the CHL and is likely in place due to relationships CHL owners have with the league.

If the agreement were abolished, then yes fewer drafted players would return to the CHL. However, this means that players who are not draft age would receive more ice time and focus from coaches. This improves the development of those underage players.

If the loss of drafted players results in financial insecurity for the CHL teams (and I'm skeptical that it would since you're still seeing your hometown CHL team, just more of the young guys), then other leagues such as the NCAA, USHL, and European leagues would easily be able to pick up the development slack. It isn't like American and European born players are suffering any development delays because they're not getting that CHL money trickle down early on.

This also would benefit the AHL and ECHL as it would infuse more young players and potentially add to the draw. It would likely push out some veterans but they would likely go to Europe. The main draw isn't the increased competition for newly drafted players, it's the fact that the NHL team can closely monitor and direct the player's coaching and exercise during the regular season.

Less stars in CHL means less ticket sales and hence less money.... I do not see how less money somehow translates to better development.

As for the bolded part, you left out the part where these players would play against weaker opposition and with weaker teammates. Very often, for very good players, the best development comes from playing against tough opposition.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

If junior players wanted to force the issue, they could opt to go to europe.

 

[nturn06]

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Very well articulated argument, I see your point.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The CHL has absolutely no leverage here, delusional to think they do. What they have going for them is that it's convenient for NHL teams to be able to toll the contract and keep a player on ELC when they aren't in the NHL yet and the NHL Owners will gladly trade a marginal effect on a 19 year old's development not being as good by virtue of playing in a Kid's League of players their age vs. the AHL in turn for owning the player's contract rights longer.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Junior hockey needs these players to sell tickets and survive as a development league for the NHL.

This would effect like 5 players per year across all three Major Junior Leagues.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Anyway, you can probably count on 1 hand (and you wouldn't need every finger) the players that were truly "too good for junior" in the last decade.

There's plenty of players too good for Juniors... they're called the ones who make the NHL as teenagers.

The ones "too good for Juniors" and "not good enough for the NHL" are obviously much much rarer. The effects it would have on their development to not play in the AHL sooner are marginal at best, if not completely irrelevant.

Man even as a Canadian I've previously thought that at least "Integrating" the CHL into the NHL umbrella would be ideal for this situation. Mostly my mind set is getting people paid for what they do ASAP.

It has the potential to really pinch the ECHL and push them out of the umbrella but if the hierarchy was NHL->AHL->Major Jr than you'd have free flow of contracted players between the 3 levels. The current structure with the ECHL doesn't need to go away but it tends to be infrequently beneficial for the NHL.

It would be really cool to see all drafted players by an NHL team be playing together on a Major Jr team. It would elevate the quality of Major Jr. Economics would determine which markets survive and you'd then see Jr B step up in quality too.

Why do you want to pinch the ECHL out? Who does that benefit? It's a great place for NHL franchises to stick Goaltenders they still want while staying under the contract limit.

 

[Crede777]

Less stars in CHL means less ticket sales and hence less money.... I do not see how less money somehow translates to better development.

As for the bolded part, you left out the part where these players would play against weaker opposition and with weaker teammates. Very often, for very good players, the best development comes from playing against tough opposition.

It's all relative. There will be stars, they just will be younger ones on average. Instead of a D+1 player getting 20 minutes TOI and 100 points, the TOI and points will go to a younger player.

If every other league a draft eligible player plays in (NCAA, USNTDP, EU leagues, etc.) can exist just fine with their players having the AHL option, so too can the CHL.

This wouldn't force players or teams to play drafted players in the AHL, but would extend that option should they decide it is what is best for that player's development. Plenty of teams and players decide to go back to the CHL or college in their D+1 years.

 

[nturn06]

It's all relative. There will be stars, they just will be younger ones on average. Instead of a D+1 player getting 20 minutes TOI and 100 points, the TOI and points will go to a younger player.

If every other league a draft-eligible player plays in (NCAA, USNTDP, EU leagues, etc.) can exist just fine with their players having the AHL option, so too can the CHL.

This wouldn't force players or teams to play drafted players in the AHL, but would extend that option should they decide it is what is best for that player's development. Plenty of teams and players decide to go back to the CHL or college in their D+1 years.

Yes, I agree.... The best player in a 5th tier league is also a star in that league. But how does that help the NHL?

Also, I could be wrong here, but I thought that many if not most of the best junior players are coming to the NHL via the CHL... Maybe forcing the CHL to copy less successful leagues is not the answer.
Even top European draftees often choose CHL over euro leagues, and there is a simple reason for that.