Confirmed with Link: DJ Smith fired, Jacques Martin in as interim, Alfie as assistant

[Dionysus]

If there are guys on the team that aren't playing the way JM wants because "he is just the supply teacher" and figuring that they can just wait him out until a permanent hire is made, then I believe they are in for a shock and may not be around for a new head coach.

Exactly. I'm sure it is clear that the players are being evaluated on how they implement the details JM and Alfie are teaching.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

At this point I'm just curious: to those who think having JM here now is a problem vis a vis giving the next coach more time with thr players this season.... What can you say is the difference between what JM is teaching and preaching and what thr next coach would?

JM is realigning NHL fundamentals with this team. Do you think those are going to be different under the next coach?

Interestingly, the poster that seemingly has a problem with JM never seemed to take issue with the 3 stooges era.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If there are guys on the team that aren't playing the way JM wants because "he is just the supply teacher" and figuring that they can just wait him out until a permanent hire is made, then I believe they are in for a shock and may not be around for a new head coach.

I think the shift is happening and the group has a we are all in this together approach and the couple of vets Giroux and Tarasenko have helped with that.

Fans will point to "supply teacher" as a possible problem but I don't think its an issue with the players. Some fans and media maybe

This group has been very tight and by all accounts still is .. I think they know they are in it together and the only way to come out it is together.

I think there are enough of them that regard Jacques and Alfie with a lot of respect to drag others in and I am very sure a player isn't going dispute what is being asked of them as a way to improve their play and the team play.

 

[Beech]

Naw, we have a two time cup winner and legendary Sens coach in to guide the team. He has stepped down from on high to teach sound fundamental team play for the interim. None of the kids are ignoring him.

Then you have Alfie, who not only is the most important Ottawa athlete of all time, but is a HHOF player who is also on the bench teach the players how to engage in a 200 foot game.

Neither guy fits the bill of “Substitute teacher” in the way you mean it. In truth, a class that had a sub come in who were legendary cup winners and HHOFers the class would go nuts and hang off every single world they dropped. It would be the best class they ever had.

No, the players are buying in and making changes and working it, the success is staring right at them, those are the guys you absolutely listen to.

It’s a solid interim move I think, because even in a losing season I think JM and Alfie are two guys who will continue to be listened to. They also don’t have their jobs on the line, so the power dynamic in the room is now all on the players, and they know player moves are coming.

yes, a great deal of what you wrote is accurate.

But... say it works!! And Jacques instills a better system, the players respond and we see improvement.. our first instincts: Hooray, it worked.

Then June comes, a new coach.. He does not see the players on the ice until mid September.. A new coach, possibly a brand new staff.. so, the 3-4 guys the players are dealing with now and for the next 3 months are gone.. a new voice, a new everything... Do we return to chaos?

Do we get a scenario were players say; Jacques told us to do it this way... only to have the new coach say, But I want you to do it, that way..

We will see.. this is the LA raiders and other NFL teams.. They often fire, put in an interim and then a new coach the next season.. often, it does not work. 3 coaches in 1 year.

Anyway.. it certainly does seem that this new owner does things in strange fashion.. Staios is PHO and wants a POHO separate from GM structure... to Staios is GM and POHO and has assistants/advisers.. Jacques is an adviser to DJ.. Jacques is replacing DJ... We see a Craig Button X message: Staios is Ottawa's next GM.. does not come in until 2 weeks later.. then keeps Dorion.. then fires Dorion..then places himself as GM.

Buffalo 12 years and counting of stop starts. Detroit 7 years and counting of stop starts. Arizona, Vancouver.. we are joining a poor group.

Sit and go through Buffalo and Detroit, teh last 10 years.. We are them.

 

[Micklebot]

If there are guys on the team that aren't playing the way JM wants because "he is just the supply teacher" and figuring that they can just wait him out until a permanent hire is made, then I believe they are in for a shock and may not be around for a new head coach.

It's also a quick and easy way to identify who we might want to trade. If someone refuses to listen to Martin and Alfie, do we want them on the team?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

This team is just as bad under him as it was DJ.

No, the team is definitely playing better.

The biggest problem wasn't coaching, it is the roster. The worst GM of all-time put it together, of course it sucks.

 

[Beech]

If there are guys on the team that aren't playing the way JM wants because "he is just the supply teacher" and figuring that they can just wait him out until a permanent hire is made, then I believe they are in for a shock and may not be around for a new head coach.

Exactly. I'm sure it is clear that the players are being evaluated on how they implement the details JM and Alfie are teaching.

It's also a quick and easy way to identify who we might want to trade. If someone refuses to listen to Martin and Alfie, do we want them on the team?

and do what about it exactly?

the core 8 guys (4 forwards, 3 D and goalie) have contracts.. Many may be not moveable..

Around them is: Giroux.. one year left. Tarasenko, finishes at end of year.

Chyc..1 more year and possibly not moveable

all remaining are bottom 11 players and generally do not impact wins and loses.

so a new coach arrives in June.. does not see anyone on the team, until September.. it takes him 2-3 months to see who is in and who is not in... Now what?????

trade who, how.. make an example and trade a Kastelic?????? try trading a Norris.

the only person who will be in for a shock next year is: The new coach.. who someone may tell "Go f*** yourself" and there is little he or the team can do.. they can pull a Wade Redden and NYR and go to the minors for 6-10 M, depending on the player...

this is not Harry Sinden and the 1970's Bruins..

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Tarasenko on the fourth line. Deserves it after that 4th goal

 

[Loach]

Maybe the Rookie GM is waiting for the leafs for make a coaching change, so they can bring in another coach from the leafs, seeing how that worked out so well the last time?

Why is our rookie GM so afraid of making a bold move, and making an offer to Berube, as other teams are looking at him, why is our rookie GM looking to pick up the scraps other teams disgard?

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Dorion was a rookie GM and you loved everything about him. Nerd.

 

[Micklebot]

and do what about it exactly?

the core 8 guys (4 forwards, 3 D and goalie) have contracts.. Many may be not moveable..

Around them is: Giroux.. one year left. Tarasenko, finishes at end of year.

Chyc..1 more year and possibly not moveable

all remaining are bottom 11 players and generally do not impact wins and loses.

so a new coach arrives in June.. does not see anyone on the team, until September.. it takes him 2-3 months to see who is in and who is not in... Now what?????

trade who, how.. make an example and trade a Kastelic?????? try trading a Norris.

the only person who will be in for a shock next year is: The new coach.. who someone may tell "Go f*** yourself" and there is little he or the team can do.. they can pull a Wade Redden and NYR and go to the minors for 6-10 M, depending on the player...

this is not Harry Sinden and the 1970's Bruins..

Remember when Murray wasn't moveable?
Guys are always moveable, you just might not get a return you're happy with it

More important though, the idea that guys are going to refuse to listen to Martin and Alfie because of an interim tag is just fear mongering fan fiction. The likely of it being an issue slim to none.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

and do what about it exactly?

the core 8 guys (4 forwards, 3 D and goalie) have contracts.. Many may be not moveable..

Around them is: Giroux.. one year left. Tarasenko, finishes at end of year.

Chyc..1 more year and possibly not moveable

all remaining are bottom 11 players and generally do not impact wins and loses.

so a new coach arrives in June.. does not see anyone on the team, until September.. it takes him 2-3 months to see who is in and who is not in... Now what?????

trade who, how.. make an example and trade a Kastelic?????? try trading a Norris.

the only person who will be in for a shock next year is: The new coach.. who someone may tell "Go f*** yourself" and there is little he or the team can do.. they can pull a Wade Redden and NYR and go to the minors for 6-10 M, depending on the player...

this is not Harry Sinden and the 1970's Bruins..

It would seem then that there is literally nothing that can be done, now with JM or later with a permanent head coach. Just have to live with an identified player who will just not listen and is uninterested in playing the team structure. I guess we can shut down the boards then.

New coach system? is JM teaching some concept from outer space. It's hardly the Russian Weave from '72. None of what JM is doing now would be wasted and learning a new system isn't difficult per se, it's a matter of deciding that you will do it.

What trade/how? Take your example of Norris. If I really need that player out for whatever reasons, I could trade him in 30 seconds. I might not get the return I hope for or I might have to eat some salary, but I could move him. And even if I couldn't for some reason, then I do give him the Redden treatment and bust him to the minors - sure, expensive AHL player, but it's a sunk cost anyways, and if I think he sucks ...

 

[UglyPuckling]

No, the team is definitely playing better.

The biggest problem wasn't coaching, it is the roster. The worst GM of all-time put it together, of course it sucks.

Is the roster, or just the goaltending?

 

[Beech]

Remember when Murray wasn't moveable?
Guys are always moveable, you just might not get a return you're happy with it

More important though, the idea that guys are going to refuse to listen to Martin and Alfie because of an interim tag is just fear mongering fan fiction. The likely of it being an issue slim to none.

take a look at their win/loss.. their goals for, goals against.. watch the games.

1984, the Habs bring in Lemaire.. Instant turn around.. Hardnosed defensive system. Game 3 of their playoff series against the Islanders. I was at the Forum in standing room. between the top blue and the middle white. a f***ing blood bath and one hell of a defensive battle.

you could see the impact.

I do not see any of that now.. I proposed Jacques 3 years ago... I was certain, his defensive system is what they needed. Now, I am not sure.

I wonder if this team needs a John Cooper... A Joel Quenneville.. and to come in now... the new coach is a player friendly coach, a motivator.. His assistants are good x's and O's..

the staff evaluates.. passes info to management. Management uses the 2024 summer to make moves..

if they hire in the summer of 2024, no moves will be made until the summer of 2025.. In which case 2023/2024 is burnt and 2024/2025,..

Now FYOUS is in 2025/2026 when many core guys are in years 4-7 of their contracts and are 26-28 and UFA's and have no movement clauses and have acquired 5-10 years of NHL knocks/injuries.

FYOUS may come down to 4yous or 3yous or 2yous.

you cannot burn years in pro sports.. a player's career is 15 years long, with 10 being prime..

 

[DueDiligence]

Is the roster, or just the goaltending?

Both

 

[UglyPuckling]

Both

I asked this question in a separate thread. No response. The question seemed simple, but maybe not? Lack of response was interesting in itself.

 

[Beech]

It would seem then that there is literally nothing that can be done, now with JM or later with a permanent head coach. Just have to live with an identified player who will just not listen and is uninterested in playing the team structure. I guess we can shut down the boards then.

New coach system? is JM teaching some concept from outer space. It's hardly the Russian Weave from '72. None of what JM is doing now would be wasted and learning a new system isn't difficult per se, it's a matter of deciding that you will do it.

What trade/how? Take your example of Norris. If I really need that player out for whatever reasons, I could trade him in 30 seconds. I might not get the return I hope for or I might have to eat some salary, but I could move him. And even if I couldn't for some reason, then I do give him the Redden treatment and bust him to the minors - sure, expensive AHL player, but it's a sunk cost anyways, and if I think he sucks ...

don't waste this year. Use it it as an evaluation/transition.

Bring in a coach. Allow him the 40 games to evaluate. Now if a trade is needed. It MAY be possible in the summer.

Now you also allow the new coach input into: bending FA's, possible trades. Don't burn more years. We have burnt 2-3 already. this is Pro sports. Players do not last forever.. 10 years is a players prime and that assumes good health and a willingness to stay.

40 games this year, an enters 2024/2025 well established.

And Old John Wayne movie; the Cowboys.. a great line, "Burning daylight"

 

[Cosmix]

Is the roster, or just the goaltending?

The causes for the current poor performance are:
1. Melnyk's budget cuts leading to trading away our best players (i.e., roster),
2. Dorion's trading away our best players for picks and prospects and making some bad trades and acquisitions including both players and coaching staff (e.g., roster).
3. Poor coaching staffs over the GM's reign.

It is not just the goaltenders, defencemen or forwards.

 

[R2010]

Winning percentage with Jacques is 30%, it was 42% under DJ

With a much harder schedule and virtually no practice time.

 

[DueDiligence]

I asked this question in a separate thread. No response. The question seemed simple, but maybe not? Lack of response was interesting in itself.

As I have mentioned before the goaltending is basically playing at the level of the team's defense which is below average. Some nights a little better, some nights a little worse. But neither one, especially the goaltending, has gone on a run where they are playing really well regardless of what's happening with the rest of the team. For example, Joey Daccord went on a 14 game run in December and earlier this month where he was just phenomenal allowing more than 2 goals just once. Because of that Seattle won probably 4 games they didn't play well in.
Wouldn't it be nice if an Ottawa goalie could have a similar run and pull the team up from its funk with a run of great play.

 

[UglyPuckling]

As I have mentioned before the goaltending is basically playing at the level of the team's defense which is below average. Some nights a little better, some nights a little worse. But neither one, especially the goaltending, has gone on a run where they are playing really well regardless of what's happening with the rest of the team. For example, Joey Daccord went on a 14 game run in December and earlier this month where he was just phenomenal allowing more than 2 goals just once. Because of that Seattle won probably 4 games they didn't play well in.
Wouldn't it be nice if an Ottawa goalie could have a similar run and pull the team up from its funk with a run of great play.

So, if we had a really good goalie, how much better would we be? Could we go on a deep playoff run? That was the question in the other thread that was created fwiw I suppose.

The causes for the current poor performance are:
1. Melnyk's budget cuts leading to trading away our best players (i.e., roster),
2. Dorion's trading away our best players for picks and prospects and making some bad trades and acquisitions including both players and coaching staff (e.g., roster).
3. Poor coaching staffs over the GM's reign.

It is not just the goaltenders, defencemen or forwards.

Setting aside owner and GM issues, and assume that coaching was at least average or better, if we had a better goalie, how much better would be? Would we go on deep playoff runs?

 

[Bileur]

The causes for the current poor performance are:
1. Melnyk's budget cuts leading to trading away our best players (i.e., roster),
2. Dorion's trading away our best players for picks and prospects and making some bad trades and acquisitions including both players and coaching staff (e.g., roster).
3. Poor coaching staffs over the GM's reign.

It is not just the goaltenders, defencemen or forwards.

Also required trades to acquire high cap hit low salary guys and didn’t allow trades to sell cap flexibility for picks.

The same summer we traded for Zaitsev Toronto gave Carolina the pick that got them Seth Jarvis to take on one year of Marleau.

Rebuild would be way further ahead without those constraints.

 

[PlayOn]

So, if we had a really good goalie, how much better would we be? Could we go on a deep playoff run? That was the question in the other thread that was created fwiw I suppose.


Setting aside owner and GM issues, and assume that coaching was at least average or better, if we had a better goalie, how much better would be? Would we go on deep playoff runs?

Deep playoff runs with this team defence? No way. A better team that could fight for a playoff spot? Yes, I think so.

We’re about as bad as teams that are purposely tanking and our roster isn’t on that level. I don’t think there’s any way to pinpoint just one thing - it’s a mix of poor coaching, the wrong mix of players and bad goaltending.

There are so many games where we play decently, get a lead and it goes off the rails. Sometimes you need your goalie to weather the storm for a bit and then you can get back on track, but that rarely happens here because a) the team is so fragile and b) they can’t get a save.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Is the roster, or just the goaltending?

Between the two? The biggest problem is the roster: too many lefties and way too soft.

Goaltending hasn't been good enough, but we aren't losing that many games because of it either.

Also required trades to acquire high cap hit low salary guys and didn’t allow trades to sell cap flexibility for picks.

The same summer we traded for Zaitsev Toronto gave Carolina the pick that got them Seth Jarvis to take on one year of Marleau.

Rebuild would be way further ahead without those constraints.

Yes, Dorion was awful at his job and his boss was Melnyk, an awful owner.

This rebuild set up to fail the moment it started and went off the rails once Melnyk died and Dorion could realize his entire awfulness. Hopefully we can course correct but I am skeptical.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Deep playoff runs with this team defence? No way. A better team that could fight for a playoff spot? Yes, I think so.

We’re about as bad as teams that are purposely tanking and our roster isn’t on that level. I don’t think there’s any way to pinpoint just one thing - it’s a mix of poor coaching, the wrong mix of players and bad goaltending.

There are so many games where we play decently, get a lead and it goes off the rails. Sometimes you need your goalie to weather the storm for a bit and then you can get back on track, but that rarely happens here because a) the team is so fragile and b) they can’t get a save.

OK, I was just curious, so thought I'd ask. We talk about goaltending issues in here a lot. I get that people like to vent. That's human nature, but wondered if the goaltending issue was addressed, what the expectation would be?

TBL has the last wild card slot with 49 points, while Ottawa has 30. So, we'd had to make up 20 points to displace TBL. We do have 5 games-in-hand, so even if we win all of them, that's still not enough. We'd need 21 points to displace the 3rd Divisional seed, with only 3 games-in-hand.

So, given those Standing stats, I just wondered how much of improvement people would expect if the goaltending was improved. Of course, deep playoff runs are even a higher bar.

 

[slamigo]

Is the roster, or just the goaltending?

Cam Talbot is going to the All Star Game and is under Vezina consideration.

It's the country club atmosphere where players barely back check and consistently hang goalies out to dry.