WC: Divisions I, II, III

[kaiser matias]

Overall, the handling Lyszczarczyk seems pretty weird to me. He doesn't play on the first line, he doesn't get first line minutes, his line mates are 16 year-old kid (who fair enough is pretty good) and a guy who is mediocre at best, he didn't get a letter..

It feels like Poland went with "oh well, we don't need you but since you are here.." attitude with a guy who is doing them a favor playing for them in the first place (not to mention in a scrubby tournament like that) and is potentially the face of Polish hockey for the next 2 decades. Not sure if that's the way to go..

Not a good way to handle what is by far the best Polish player out there. Though considering he's now tied to Poland internationally (unless he wants to skip out on four years of IIHF play, which is always possible) maybe they just feel they can take him for granted. Though if you want Lyszczarczyk to make the trek to places like Romania and beat up on the Croats in the future, this is not the best way to go about it. Though glad he did it, will really be a boost for the senior team in a couple years (provided he's available).

 

[ozo]

Overall, the handling Lyszczarczyk seems pretty weird to me. He doesn't play on the first line, he doesn't get first line minutes, his line mates are 16 year-old kid (who fair enough is pretty good) and a guy who is mediocre at best, he didn't get a letter..

It feels like Poland went with "oh well, we don't need you but since you are here.." attitude with a guy who is doing them a favor playing for them in the first place (not to mention in a scrubby tournament like that) and is potentially the face of Polish hockey for the next 2 decades. Not sure if that's the way to go..

The simple explanation would be that Poles are trying to better utilize the three kids currently on the first line and make their offense deeper, as Alan would be taking the puck away from two next most competent F's on the roster. And dare I say, it kinda worked if Pas scored a hattrick.

Also it just is one game, I'm sure Alan will get his icetime and eventually bagload of points.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I would understand this kind of attitude if he was just some random Canadian Italy/Japan/Korea/Croatia/whatever employ at men's level. Those are there because it's in some way beneficial to them so ok, maybe you feel you need to show them they are not above anyone and they have to work hard and be a part of the team (like reportedly there was a conflict in Italy's NT between local players and Canadians). But in this case, Lyszczarczyk doesn't benefit at all from playing for Poland nor he will in a foreseeable future, he just does because he wants to. So why not embrace the fact you have someone who is head and shoulders above the rest?

I don't really think if there was a team voting who gets "C" and "A" that his teammates thought "well, this guy plays in the OHL and is obviously better than us but I'm still not impressed because he doesn't speak perfect Polish". Or that he has bad attitude because really, who would go from Canada to Romania to play in U18 D2A with a bad attitude? It would seem like Polish hockey people sending the message which is stupid.

The simple explanation would be that Poles are trying to better utilize the three kids currently on the first line and make their offense deeper, as Alan would be taking the puck away from two next most competent F's on the roster. And dare I say, it kinda worked if Pas scored a hattrick.

Also it just is one game, I'm sure Alan will get his icetime and eventually bagload of points.

Yeah, the simple explanation would be that and a perfectly good one but all the things I mentioned combined seem more than just Poles wanting to split their offense. Another perfectly good explanation for him not getting a letter would be his poor Polish skills. But all these things combined just begin to seem like a pattern.

Then again, sure, it's just one game.

 

[kabidjan18]

I would understand this kind of attitude if he was just some random Canadian Italy/Japan/Korea/Croatia/whatever employ at men's level. Those are there because it's in some way beneficial to them in some way so ok, maybe you feel you need to show them they are not above anyone and they have to work hard and be a part of the team (like reportedly there was a conflict in Italy's NT between local players and Canadians). But in this case, Lyszczarczyk doesn't benefit at all from playing for Poland nor he will in a foreseeable future, he just does because he wants to. So why not embrace the fact you have someone who is head and shoulders above the rest?

I don't really think if there was a team voting who gets "C" and "A" that his teammates thought "well, this guy plays in the OHL and is obviously better than us but I'm still not impressed because he doesn't speak perfect Polish". Or that he has bad attitude because really, who would go from Canada to Romania to play in U18 D2A with a bad attitude? It would seem like Polish hockey people sending the message which is stupid.

The polish u18 roster is no offense, a joke. The preliminary roster had quite a few talented kids from European junior leagues, I was actually kinda excited for the roster but when I opened it up I was like "YAY, HOMERISM!!" There are like 2 kids not from the polish league and no offense intended the polish league isn't worth much. The use of Lyszczarczyk as such doesn't surprise me. They don't want to win more than they want to show off the polish development system against other terrible development systems. Barring a change in philosophy, they'll get to D1B with Lyszczarczyk this year and then get relegated back next year with no true change in the status of their hockey program.

 

[ozo]

The polish u18 roster is no offense, a joke. The preliminary roster had quite a few talented kids from European junior leagues, I was actually kinda excited for the roster but when I opened it up I was like "YAY, HOMERISM!!" There are like 2 kids not from the polish league and no offense intended the polish league isn't worth much. The use of Lyszczarczyk as such doesn't surprise me. They don't want to win more than they want to show off the polish development system against other terrible development systems. Barring a change in philosophy, they'll get to D1B with Lyszczarczyk this year and then get relegated back next year with no true change in the status of their hockey program.

Could you please point us out the kids that deserved to be on the roster and aren't? Besides Alan, I see three kids from Czech leagues and one from some random US league, do they really have some glaring omissions from players outside of Poland?

 

[SoundAndFury]

Could you please point us out the kids that deserved to be on the roster and aren't?

Well after looking through the Polish entry list, this Grzegorz Radzieńciak guy is an obvious snub, other than that, they are missing one guy from a DNL2 (garbage league) and Swedish 3rd tier. Doubt those are better than local kids.

Then again, Radzienciak might not be playing just for some reason we/I have no idea about like ongoing playoffs, family matters or some minor injury. Ongoing playoffs seems likely.

Also, shoutout to all those GB fans who told me last year how I am picking on Duggan for not being as impressive as an NHL prospect should be at this level. Obviously I was wrong, can see him going in the first round

 

[kaiser matias]

Georgia winning 4-0 after two periods against Luxembourg. As it stands Georgia is going to medal here, though I think their loss against Turkey will prevent them from being promoted (this also assumes Georgia wins against Hong Kong and Turkey loses to South Africa). Still a good result for them, but again have to stress the role the Russians on the team are playing: the two top scorers and their main goalie are all Russian, with one of them playing in the Russian third division. Its quite apparent they aren't Georgian as well, as during the anthem all the ethnic Georgians were singing along but the Russians were not, which I found kind of funny.

 

[kabidjan18]

Could you please point us out the kids that deserved to be on the roster and aren't? Besides Alan, I see three kids from Czech leagues and one from some random US league, do they really have some glaring omissions from players outside of Poland?

Biggest omission is Radzienciak, they actually have a Trinec kid there and he's not as good as Radzienciak. Slowakiewicz comes from a great Poprad program and he's a strong pedigree kid. There's another Slovakia U18 kid. There was a big kid dominating in the second U18 league in Sweden, and a kid who is absolutely dominating in the DNL2.

 

[kabidjan18]

Well after looking through the Polish entry list, this Grzegorz Radzieńciak guy is an obvious snub, other than that, they are missing one guy from a DNL2 (garbage league) and Swedish 3rd tier. Doubt those are better than local kids.

Then again, Radzienciak might not be playing just for some reason we/I have no idea about like ongoing playoffs, family matters or some minor injury. Ongoing playoffs seems likely.

Also, shoutout to all those GB fans who told me last year how I am picking on Duggan for not being as impressive as an NHL prospect should be at this level. Obviously I was wrong, can see him going in the first round

First off, the same teams that play U18 elite play U18 Allsvenskan just usually more players who would play in the older groups, so in reality D1 is the 2nd Swedish league. If DNL 2 is trash so please tell me about the Polish U20. There may be others, other than the Slovak kids I mentioned and Radzienciak that I already mentioned, that I missed, but eh, whatever.

 

[ozo]

Biggest omission is Radzienciak, they actually have a Trinec kid there and he's not as good as Radzienciak. Slowakiewicz comes from a great Poprad program and he's a strong pedigree kid. There's another Slovakia U18 kid. There was a big kid dominating in the second U18 league in Sweden, and a kid who is absolutely dominating in the DNL2.

SoundAndFury already kinda covered most of these, but how can you push some "local kid bias agenda" when Poles have selected one Trinec kid already? You clearly see that they dont care about where he is playing, so why should they suddenly care in Radziencak's case? You got to assume that there's other reason why he isnt playing.

 

[kabidjan18]

SoundAndFury already kinda covered most of these, but how can you push some "local kid bias agenda" when Poles have selected one Trinec kid already? You clearly see that they dont care about where he is playing, so why should they suddenly care in Radziencak's case? You got to assume that there's other reason why he isnt playing.

Eh, I always have believed that to cover poorly is no better than to not cover. First he didn't demonstrate an understanding for the Swedish league tierings. He happened to miss both the Slovak kids, and he vocalized an opinion on the second German league that is just that.

Ok, you covered one, in theory, 4 to go unless I stumble across another on a second glance.

 

[SoundAndFury]

There was a big kid dominating in the second U18 league in Sweden, and a kid who is absolutely dominating in the DNL2.

You have to put things in perspective, just because they put up a lot of points in garbage leagues doesn't mean they are any good. And you are talking about 3rd Swedish U18 league, nobody worth giving a damn plays there at 17, even for a D2A level team.

Lukas Žukauskas could have played there in 14/15 season (he was 16) but was too good and never got sent down from J18 Elit. And I wouldn't call him a leader/best player of this Lithuanian U18 team either. You are talking how Poles "snubbed" the guy playing 2 tiers below. Also he scored 1.5 PPG there while guy who led the league in scoring scored 3.8 PPG. In context, 1.5 PPG doesn't seem quite as dominant, does it?

 

[kabidjan18]

You have to put things in perspective, just because they put up a lot of points in garbage leagues doesn't mean they are any good. And you are talking about 3rd Swedish U18 league, nobody worth giving a damn plays there at 17, even for a D2A level team.

Lukas Žukauskas could have played there in 14/15 season (he was 16) but was too good and never got sent down from J18 Elit. And I wouldn't call him a leader/best player of this Lithuanian U18 team either. You are talking how Poles "snubbed" the guy playing 2 tiers below. Also he scored 1.5 PPG there while guy who led the league in scoring scored 3.8 PPG. In context, 1.5 PPG doesn't seem quite as dominant, does it?

Oh gosh...you're getting sadder and sadder. While J18 Elit and J18 Allsvenskan are the same level for the majority of teams, J18 Allsvenskan is above J18 Elit in terms of difficulty so he was actually only playing one tier above. Try the German kid or the Slovak kids please, you sound like me talking about Latvian food preferences.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Oh gosh...you're getting sadder and sadder. While J18 Elit and J18 Allsvenskan are the same level for the majority of teams, J18 Allsvenskan is above J18 Elit in terms of difficulty so he was actually only playing one tier above. Try the German kid or the Slovak kids please, you sound like me talking about Latvian food preferences.

Ok, fair enough, I "didn't demonstrate an understanding for the Swedish league tierings", you called kid who is 180th or something in PPG in a league "dominant". Also, those Slovak kids, I have no idea who they are I just have no real reason to believe they are any good. They are not good simply because they play in Slovakia.

And about calling DNL 2 trash, Poles had players from DNL playing for them and they were good, yet nothing special. So 1) obviously they do invite players playing in Germany if they feel they are worth it; 2) if DNL guys are on par with kids playing in Poland why should I believe someone playing in DNL 2 is above them? Also DNL 2 is more or less on par with Jugend BL, is it not?

And no matter how I sound, you sound like you made a statement and as both I and ozo pointed out have nothing to back it up. Who cares if I was wrong about Swedish junior tier or not, my point remains. Žukauskas was too good to even play there and there were literally hundreds of kids who performed in the league better than Oblonski. Your whole belief he is good is based on the fact he is playing in Sweden and not Poland and nothing else.

 

[kabidjan18]

Ok, fair enough, I "didn't demonstrate an understanding for the Swedish league tierings", you called kid who is 180th or something in PPG in a league "dominant". Also, those Slovak kids, I have no idea who they are I just have no real reason to believe they are any good. They are not good simply because they play in Slovakia.

And about calling DNL 2 trash, Poles had players from DNL playing for them and they were good, yet nothing special. So 1) obviously they do invite players playing in Germany if they feel they are worth it; 2) if DNL guys are on par with kids playing in Poland why should I believe someone playing in DNL 2 is above them? Also DNL 2 is more or less on par with Jugend BL, is it not?

Ooh, touche, touche.

The Slovak kids are different in nature. One plays for Poprad which is like a royal Slovak program and has done better with its youth in competition than Bratislava recently. He's also put up better stats than the other kid who plays for a more mediocre program. Tycyzinski probably should've been considered too.

Lol, of course it's better (15 yo and 17 yo) but it's not an amazing league. Compared to the Polish U20 league though...

 

[SoundAndFury]

So again, you provide no arguments whatsoever other than "they play in that country for this program, they have to be good". Poland has no history of snubbing anyone just because they play abroad and they have players from USA, Czech Republic and Belarus on the current roster for crying out load.

But whatever. I guess you can believe what you want to.

Also, after some more examination, DNL 2 was formed to pretty much replace the Jugend-BL, so it is more or less the same league. The league where defenseman Edgar Protcenko scored ppg at 15 and Arturas Laukaitis scored more than 2 ppg at 16. So yes, a league of tremendous quality indeed. Now I'm not saying the kid playing there is terrible but he is 16 and he would had played on a 4th line at best. For a country with a player pool as deep as Poland a little details can determine who do you pick to play on the 4th line. I can't see how not picking some 16 year-old can be considered a snub.

And the last one, Poland and their players from terrible U20 league just whooped Croatia consisting mostly of players from what you most likely consider a pretty good Austrian U20 league 7-2. So believe me, league isn't everything and I'd much rather believe the choices of Polish coaches who saw those kids than you going "his stats are good, that league is good, program is good, country is pretty".

 

[kabidjan18]

So again, you provide no arguments whatsoever other than "they play in that country for this program, they have to be good". Poland has no history of snubbing anyone just because they play abroad and they have players from USA, Czech Republic and Belarus on the current roster for crying out load.

But whatever. I guess you can believe what you want to.

Also, after some more examination, DNL 2 was formed to pretty much replace the Jugend-BL, so it is more or less the same league. The league where defenseman Edgar Protcenko scored ppg at 15 and Arturas Laukaitis scored more than 2 ppg at 16. So yes, a league of tremendous quality indeed. Now I'm not saying the kid playing there is terrible but he is 16 and he would had played on a 4th line at best. For a country with a player pool as deep as Poland a little details can determine who do you pick to play on the 4th line. I can't see how not picking some 16 year-old can be considered a snub.

And the last one, Poland and their players from terrible U20 league just whooped Croatia consisting mostly of players from what you most likely consider a pretty good Austrian U20 league 7-2. So believe me, league isn't everything and I'd much rather believe the choices of Polish coaches who saw those kids than you going "his stats are good, that league is good, program is good, country is pretty".

Ah, I see, we can do it this way

First of all you finally try to offer vindication for the polish league, only, you do a downright miserable job because the top polish players (Odrobny, Chimielewski, Dziubinski and all of their top scorers) all didn't play in the Polish U20. Some started in America, some in *coughing* Germany, and some in the Professional division. The top Polish league player (AINEC) wasn't even a good NCAA player. J18 D1 has produced many famous players including Hampus Lindholm who played there when he was as old as 16 and players from the ECHL and CHL leagues who played there at 16 or older. You try to tear down the leagues of players I mention then call me out for using more advanced details (stats, leagues, clubs) than your basic clubs while still making league arguments. Hypocritical a little? You now demonstrate fresh ignorance for the Croatian team, which is a mix of imports, Slovenia league players, and kids WHO ARE ACTUALLY STILL playing in the Austrian U20 against Polish adults, yeah, fair match. The Czech republic is used as the advanced youth development system by the polish hockey system. Alan came through the Czech system, and Alan is being underutilized. The "Belarus" kid you mentioned doesn't play in Belarus, he hasn't played in an entire year, and predictably of the 4 Polish U20 players, 1 Poland 2 player and 1 former Belarus kid, none of them scored a single point in a 7 goal game. Bednarz has 12 points in 26 games in the Polish U20. What about not making blanket statements and trying to back them up. "Poland has not history" well then prove it. Proving is not mentioning one or two exceptions, no, proving it is actually showing that the mean for players playing abroad on the U18 NT is at or above average for their division. It seems you've never looked at the Poland roster, or the Croatia roster, you're just now starting to look into youth leagues in the region as well.

I conceded once, but don't get greedy, I hear it's a sin.

 

[kulenova seka]

So again, you provide no arguments whatsoever other than "they play in that country for this program, they have to be good". Poland has no history of snubbing anyone just because they play abroad and they have players from USA, Czech Republic and Belarus on the current roster for crying out load.

But whatever. I guess you can believe what you want to.

Also, after some more examination, DNL 2 was formed to pretty much replace the Jugend-BL, so it is more or less the same league. The league where defenseman Edgar Protcenko scored ppg at 15 and Arturas Laukaitis scored more than 2 ppg at 16. So yes, a league of tremendous quality indeed. Now I'm not saying the kid playing there is terrible but he is 16 and he would had played on a 4th line at best. For a country with a player pool as deep as Poland a little details can determine who do you pick to play on the 4th line. I can't see how not picking some 16 year-old can be considered a snub.

And the last one, Poland and their players from terrible U20 league just whooped Croatia consisting mostly of players from what you most likely consider a pretty good Austrian U20 league 7-2. So believe me, league isn't everything and I'd much rather believe the choices of Polish coaches who saw those kids than you going "his stats are good, that league is good, program is good, country is pretty".

Croatian players may be listed as playing in Austria U20, but in reality majority of these players are injury call-ups, and just provides little rest for top guys, and they are far away from any critical situations in the game such as PP or PK. Most of them can barely skate as it could be witnessed today.

Why Bogdziul move to NA instead of staying in Finland ? His stats in fin seems good enough to stay there ?!

 

[kulenova seka]

Ah, I see, we can do it this way

Croatian team, which is a mix of imports, Slovenia league players, and kids WHO ARE ACTUALLY STILL playing in the Austrian U20

Most of our players plays garbage minutes in U20 EBEL, others played EIGHT games of so called croatian junior championship and some saw limited action in senior league mostly against Sisak, team that doesn't see ice until mid-december.

 

[kabidjan18]

Croatian players may be listed as playing in Austria U20, but in reality majority of these players are injury call-ups, and just provides little rest for top guys, and they are far away from any critical situations in the game such as PP or PK. Most of them can barely skate as it could be witnessed today.

Why Bogdziul move to NA instead of staying in Finland ? His stats in fin seems good enough to stay there ?!

Oh goodness, I thought he was saying national men's team. With the U18 team you're talking about there are 4 players from the U20 and they made no difference in the game. And as Kulenova Seka said, because the Medvescak U20 is one of the oldest teams in the Austria U20. I believe only a few like 2 or 3 play EBYSL regularly. Tristenjak maybe, was he there today?

 

[kulenova seka]

Oh goodness, I thought he was saying national men's team. With the U18 team you're talking about there are 4 players from the U20 and they made no difference in the game. And as Kulenova Seka said, because the Medvescak U20 is one of the oldest teams in the Austria U20. I believe only a few like 2 or 3 play EBYSL regularly. Tristenjak maybe, was he there today?

He was. Did nothing except being present with his body

 

[kabidjan18]

He was. Did nothing except being present with his body

Lol, he actually started the season out scoring points. I don't know why he abandoned that.

 

[kulenova seka]

Lol, he actually started the season out scoring points. I don't know why he abandoned that.

He is not good for U20 EBEL to score regularly there. If not for Platuzic's suspension he wouldn't play on scoring line. He should have played EBEL U18, unfortunaetly Medvescak didn't want to invest money in that team, but that is another subject.

 

[ZT]

Prpic's Brantford is at Allan Cup tournament so no EBEL poster boy as well.

What are you talking about? Brantford's season is over.

 

[kabidjan18]

He is not good for U20 EBEL to score regularly there. If not for Platuzic's suspension he wouldn't play on scoring line. He should have played EBEL U18, unfortunaetly Medvescak didn't want to invest money in that team, but that is another subject.

Bublic has the body too. EBJL isn't so important more than it's an EBYSL feeder. What they need to do though is field a younger EBYSL team. The best EBYSL players should be playing senior so that the younger players could have a chance to learn against good competition.