Disney Star Wars General Discussion

Seedtype

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George Lucas just needed someone to challenge him more on the story, he basically just mailed it in for the prequels. A lot of the basic concepts are okay, it's just that it makes everyone but Palpatine look stupid, IMO. You can't just write a good story in one draft.
 

John Price

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Sep 19, 2008
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I recently completed rewatching the prequels. They are solid works of cinema and the memes... Oh man the endless memes

Can't really complain about them. Again ranking

Original

Prequel

Sequel
 

Pranzo Oltranzista

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Oct 18, 2017
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I mean if you want to nitpick there are a few gaffes which I don't really wanna get into as I'm not at home but overall it's a solid story setting up the clone wars and end of said wars

Even if the story was A1 perfect (which it's not, it's really bad), it wouldn't be enough to make for solid works of cinema. These are crappy films - ones that you can enjoy all you want, but please don't pretend they're worth anything.
 
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ArGarBarGar

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Sep 8, 2008
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Can we not? I am as much of a fan of debating how bad Star Wars media is as the next guy, but if someone believes a movie is good we don't necessarily have to respond to tell them they are wrong (and not in an antagonistic way).

And yes, I understand the irony that I have a habit of doing this when someone says they DON'T like some movies.
 
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Randy Butternubs

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Mar 15, 2008
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Here's my listing of Visions episodes, favorite to least favorite:
  1. The Ninth Jedi
  2. The Village Bride
  3. Lop and Ocho
  4. Akakiri
  5. The Elder
  6. The Duel
  7. The Twins
  8. Tattooine Rhapsody
  9. T0-B1
 

Shockmaster

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Sep 11, 2012
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Even if the story was A1 perfect (which it's not, it's really bad), it wouldn't be enough to make for solid works of cinema. These are crappy films - ones that you can enjoy all you want, but please don't pretend they're worth anything.

Well apparently they are worth something given the Clone Wars and other Star Wars lore and canon material that was built off of what was established in the prequels.
 
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John Price

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Exactly. I mean you can trash the prequels all you want but they brought up such classic memes as 'Hello There', 'I don't like sand', 'Now this is podracing', and my favorite 'Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plageuis The Wise'. Plus they set up the Clone Wars TV show which is solid content.

Lately been playing some Battlefront II and the whole Supremacy mode is choosing between Prequel era / Rebel era / Sequel era and I've been playing a lot of prequel on Kamino and Naboo. :laugh: Of course this is also because I recently finished the prequels
 

HanSolo

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Apr 7, 2008
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Exactly. I mean you can trash the prequels all you want but they brought up such classic memes as 'Hello There', 'I don't like sand', 'Now this is podracing', and my favorite 'Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plageuis The Wise'. Plus they set up the Clone Wars TV show which is solid content.

Lately been playing some Battlefront II and the whole Supremacy mode is choosing between Prequel era / Rebel era / Sequel era and I've been playing a lot of prequel on Kamino and Naboo. :laugh: Of course this is also because I recently finished the prequels

The so bad it's good and it spawned memes things works for The Room. Not for Star Wars chapters. The Room is endearing and funny because it's made by a wholly bizarre human being who insists on being center stage for a fever dream of a shit movie. A shit movie that he genuinely made with care and believed was something artistic and special. The Prequels were Lucas' promise to use technology to do Star Wars bigger and better and it fell flat on its face. It's less forgivable to me. Especially when only one of the three films (Revenge) are something I can stomach sitting through from start to finish.

I'll cop to it. I wanted the sequel trilogy to be good and I allowed to let myself get hyped up because I wanted new, good stories set in a fictional universe I grew up adoring and fantasizing about. TFA as a self contained experience may be derivative and safe, but to me its still entertaining and competently realized which I can't say for any of the prequels. Then The Last Jedi came in and threw all the dangling plot threads from TFA and threw them in the toilet in the interest of Rian's hard on for subversion. And the result is a muddied mess of a plot that left a turd stain on the over arching plot forcing The Rise of Skywalker to be barely watchable attempt to clean the toilet bowl.

All that said, at least throughout the acting is solid, the action is entertaining, the films aren't CGI messes, and they feel functional as films in spite of being messy and a waste of potential.

At least I can watch the sequels and Rogue One/Solo. I may be frustrated that they didn't reach the mark I was hoping for for new Star Wars cinema, but at least I can get something out of watching them. Watching the prequels requires alcohol, and even then it's pyschological and film consuming diarrhea.

The Clone Wars works because it made the characters feel like real humans, and fixed a lot of broken characters, ironic for an animated show. It filled the gaps in the story that was butchered by Lucas. It just did everything better and it still wasn't perfect. If I want to see a prequel meme, I'll look them up on YouTube. Subjecting myself to the prequels is akin to torture.
 
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Shockmaster

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I always find it hypocritical that the average TLJ fan is upset at JJ Abrams for tossing some of Rian Johnson's story threads for TRoS, but didn't seem to care when Johnson himself did the exact same thing with TFA.
 

Garo

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I always find it hypocritical that the average TLJ fan is upset at JJ Abrams for tossing some of Rian Johnson's story threads for TRoS, but didn't seem to care when Johnson himself did the exact same thing with TFA.

Well there's a few obvious reasons:

- His ideas were better in TLJ and more grounded than anything in TFA
- TFA is still a general remake with a fairly blank canvas, some threads could be explored further than they were later on sure but the general story and where people were and why they are doing it was still fairly easy to follow and nothing was really contradicted there
- if TROS is a continuation of those ideas, they deserved to be flushed

But nah, I don't really care. I like TFA for what it is, but it offers very little that absolutely had to follow bar the main characters. I liked what TLJ did better and was generally more interesting for the franchise in a way that the movies have hardly ever been allowed to in a while. And TROS sucked lol
 

Shockmaster

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Well there's a few obvious reasons:

- His ideas were better in TLJ and more grounded than anything in TFA
- TFA is still a general remake with a fairly blank canvas, some threads could be explored further than they were later on sure but the general story and where people were and why they are doing it was still fairly easy to follow and nothing was really contradicted there
- if TROS is a continuation of those ideas, they deserved to be flushed

But nah, I don't really care. I like TFA for what it is, but it offers very little that absolutely had to follow bar the main characters. I liked what TLJ did better and was generally more interesting for the franchise in a way that the movies have hardly ever been allowed to in a while. And TROS sucked lol

And thus my point is proved.
 

Garo

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And thus my point is proved.

No it isn't? It's not hypocritical to have a preference lmao

If you oppose something something on the principle that it should not happen and let it happen when it suits you, that is hypocrisy. If you don't have an issue with the principle but think one did it way better than the other it's not the same situation.
 
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Shockmaster

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No it isn't? It's not hypocritical to have a preference lmao

You can have a preference, but it is hypocritical to say it's okay when one director does it but not okay when the other director does the same.
 
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Garo

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I expanded a bit, but it really isn't. Again though this is just missing the obvious point as to why people who like TLJ more are fine with it and it's not because of a slavish devotion to RJ's vision. And as an attempt to what? Call people hypocrites? Kind of a weak payoff.
 

KingLB

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Oct 29, 2008
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I always find it hypocritical that the average TLJ fan is upset at JJ Abrams for tossing some of Rian Johnson's story threads for TRoS, but didn't seem to care when Johnson himself did the exact same thing with TFA.

Thats because Johnson’s movie was so bad, that you don’t even get to that complaint in your top 20 list. Thus it’s like it’s never brought up. When in reality it’s an issue too.
 
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Dolemite

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I've watched 4 of the animes, Ninth Jedi is just phenomenal. I want more of that story.

Episode 8 - Lop & Ocho is better than the last three Star Wars Movies combined. Such an amazing action packed tale crammed into such a short time.
 
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Dolemite

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George Lucas just needed someone to challenge him more on the story, he basically just mailed it in for the prequels. A lot of the basic concepts are okay, it's just that it makes everyone but Palpatine look stupid, IMO. You can't just write a good story in one draft.

He came out of retirement to make the movies. He should have directed a couple first before doing the prequels. They weren’t that bad but they needed some polishing.
 

wintersej

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I’ve noticed a lot of difference in the response to the prequels and sequels is based on age.

If you were young when the prequels came out (or where introduced to them as a kid) you are much more likely to forgive it’s mistakes than if you were 20+ years old when they came out.

I’m 40, so when the prequels came out I was so excited and they were so so so disappointing that even decades later I can’t forgive them. (Although the cartoons are excellent).

When the sequels came out, I was just far more forgiving and happy to have some Star Wars stuff. Except skywalker. That was a mess.

Folks that grew up with the prequels around and are adults now I think are having the same reaction to the sequels as I had to the prequels. They are disappointing compared to the nostalgia of youth.

And that makes sense.
 

Richard

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Feb 8, 2012
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The issues with Prequal Trilogy "PT" and the Sequel Trilogy "ST" are totally different and affect my enjoyment it two totally different ways.

Firstly, the PT failed in the actual execution, the "movie making" if you will, and was very interesting from a story perspective. Hell, look at all of the quality content we were able to extract from it. The PT's main failing had to do with George Lucas pushing new technology over story-telling, bad and clunky dialogue (which the original Star Wars had, as well), poor pacing and story plotting and, most importantly, bad acting. The actual storyline is good and set the stage for so many quality stories and motives. In fact, the PT storyline, I would argue, is much broader and opened up Star Wars, creatively, in a much larger way than even the OT.

Now, the ST is much better made (well The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi--- I could never bring myself to see The Rise of Skywalker) than ANY of the PT. The ST has a very, very, very large problem---- the story SUCKS. There is no motive, no real theme, characters change their motivations several times mid-film and then change back in the next film. The Villain is unoriginal and the story is redundant. In short, it absolutely fails the narrative test. There really isn't an overarching theme or story board. ABSOLUTELY the worst aspect of the ST is that, instead of building on the OT and the PT, it actively seeks to disparage its source material. It changes lore, it reduces characters that we have known since childhood to unrecognizable tropes (the same Luke who threw his lightsaber aside and declared he would rather die than join the dark side, has a nightmare and proceeds to try and murder his nephew....... ????? really?)

So to conclude, you can easily criticize both the ST and the PT --- but, in my opinion, for two completely different and distinct reasons. One, the PT, is an unrecognized hulk of content which was later mined successfully by others, including Dave Filoni. It contained some scenes of pure brilliance but was mostly marred by technical film making blips and bad acting. On the other hand, you have the ST, which is absolutely superbly made, and a piece of shit, story-wise. So you have an uncut gem and a polished turd. Therein lies the difference.
Give me the uncut gem everyday....
 

Shockmaster

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Sep 11, 2012
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The issues with Prequal Trilogy "PT" and the Sequel Trilogy "ST" are totally different and affect my enjoyment it two totally different ways.

Firstly, the PT failed in the actual execution, the "movie making" if you will, and was very interesting from a story perspective. Hell, look at all of the quality content we were able to extract from it. The PT's main failing had to do with George Lucas pushing new technology over story-telling, bad and clunky dialogue (which the original Star Wars had, as well), poor pacing and story plotting and, most importantly, bad acting. The actual storyline is good and set the stage for so many quality stories and motives. In fact, the PT storyline, I would argue, is much broader and opened up Star Wars, creatively, in a much larger way than even the OT.

Now, the ST is much better made (well The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi--- I could never bring myself to see The Rise of Skywalker) than ANY of the PT. The ST has a very, very, very large problem---- the story SUCKS. There is no motive, no real theme, characters change their motivations several times mid-film and then change back in the next film. The Villain is unoriginal and the story is redundant. In short, it absolutely fails the narrative test. There really isn't an overarching theme or story board. ABSOLUTELY the worst aspect of the ST is that, instead of building on the OT and the PT, it actively seeks to disparage its source material. It changes lore, it reduces characters that we have known since childhood to unrecognizable tropes (the same Luke who threw his lightsaber aside and declared he would rather die than join the dark side, has a nightmare and proceeds to try and murder his nephew....... ????? really?)

So to conclude, you can easily criticize both the ST and the PT --- but, in my opinion, for two completely different and distinct reasons. One, the PT, is an unrecognized hulk of content which was later mined successfully by others, including Dave Filoni. It contained some scenes of pure brilliance but was mostly marred by technical film making blips and bad acting. On the other hand, you have the ST, which is absolutely superbly made, and a piece of shit, story-wise. So you have an uncut gem and a polished turd. Therein lies the difference.
Give me the uncut gem everyday....

It should be telling that LucasFilm has absolutely nothing in the pipeline that set to come out over the next few years that builds off of anything established in the sequel trilogy. On the flip side of that, Clone Wars came out just 3 years after Revenge of the Sith was released and LucasFilm is still putting out new content that builds off of what was established in the prequel trilogy era.
 
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