Did USA overtake Canada as 'The Best Hockey Nation'?

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Canada winning the gold medal game now

 

[yessir29292]

In last 6 WJCs from 2020 to today, both have 3 golds. Finland won 2019. It's close.

And Canada likely wins the last 2 if likes of Celebrini('25),Bedard('24,'25), Benson('24,'25), Fantilli('24), Wright('24) and Korchinski('24) are there. US just missing cooley in 24 and smith in 25

 

[Raging Bull]

I don't know about overtake but there is clearly no more separation from Canada and the other top countries.

 

[HolyGhost]

not sure why anyone is talking about IIHF rankings. This is a none sanctioned event so it will have no affect on the rankings.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Canada winning the gold medal game now

No chance with Binnington in net. Hellebuyck vs Binnington is so lopsided its almost unfair.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Canada's weakness has been developing goaltending and we saw this coming for a long time too.

 

[strattonius]

I promise you real hockey fans take the Four Nations more seriously than a random World Championships where more than 50% of the best rosters are not available. We're talking about maybe 5% of the best rosters for these Four Nations that aren't available. And the World Championships isn't allowing Russia currently either, so this is basically the best on best of what the hockey world currently allows.

Everyone is taking it seriously but that doesn't mean the results change the rankings. I mean the most likely scenario is that Canada beats Finland and we have a rematch on Thursday.

I think Canada is still the best for a couple reasons. One being Canada produces the most NHL players. If you look at the % of NHL players its really staggering how many Canadians represent the best league in the world. Also Canada has the best elite players in the world; that being McDavid, Mackinnon and Makar. The USA played a better team game on Saturday and of course knee jerk reactions will follow. The USA unquestionably have a better blueline and goaltending, so it's very close either way.

 

[Breakers]

I would take USA defense over Canada easily

 

[Opus]

After Thursday night - the answer is 'yes'

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

As of right now, I wouldn't say the USA has overtaken Canada. I think it is close.

In ten years? Twenty years? Canada is a 'rapidly changing' nation, and I don't think that change is going to be conducive to hockey dominance.

 

[NikF]

Canada has almost zero two-way elite talent anymore. Scarcely any large punishing defensemen either. No skilled yet mean bigs. There's no Bergeron, Toews, M. Richards anymore. Nor a mean skilled big like Getzlaf or Perry, nor a Pronger or Weber on D. It's a soft team.

Imo the cause of this is overcoaching young kids to all fit the same mold of a mobile skilled skater. Too much individual coaching. There's virtually zero variety in the type of the player that now comes up through the ranks. It's cyclical but it takes time to change the trend. When a team figures out they can become dominant by being bigger and more physically punishing and win a Cup it will re-balance down the ranks. Right now physicality and compete is probably quite underrated in the NHL, just like being small and skilled you wouldn't get as much of a chance post Anaheim/LA. It will auto-correct.

 

[T REX]

Did USA overtake Canada as 'The Best Hockey Nation', or 'The Best National Ice Hockey Team'?

I am not saying just because USA just beat Canada 3-1 infront of their own fans, but did USA just caugh Canada in terms of pruducing hockey talents?

Yes, USA has the population of 300+millions (almost 10 times more than Canada), but popularity of hockey in both countries are not comparable:
- In Canada random folks know something about hockey, hockey stars in general
- But in USA most of the folks don't care & know anything about hockey... if you catch random dude in NY, LA, Miami, Atlanta etc. and ask them about the legendary hockey players & current hockey stars they will say 'they have no idea about who they are' & won't even recognise even the most famous hockey players.

But at this time in 2025... Team USA looks better than Team Canada. What a time we live in!


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Sorry, if it's hard to understand... English isn't my first language.

premature speculation imho
Canada is gonna be ready for the rematch

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

But how is Canada staying stagnant? 4 of the last 1st overall picks in the NHL have been Canadian lol. Including the majority of the 1st round selections. The country has won more than anyone else even if you bring the sample size way down.

This argument would never be made if Sweden/Finland/US or anyone else produced 4 of the last 5 first overall picks and most of the 1st round selections, and the 2025 1st overall pick is very likely to be a Canadian as well, I don't see how producing the best top picks in the NHL practically every year is being stagnant?

Are those players actually the best players? That's the question. If what you are saying holds up, sure, but I think there are fair questions there if Canada actually has every best player in a draft and like 2/3 of the best players (first rounders) or if the system works in a way where Canadians get priority draft slots and other nations don't, despite the actual disparity in who is what level of NHL prospect being nowhere near what the draft results suggest.

 

[beach]

Giving it isn't a international tournament but NHL gimmick - Nope.

Yeah, the players are taking this as a frivolous all star type, no contact tournament.
Oh wait no, they're giving it their all like it does actually mean a lot.

 

[Peiskos]

Personally I didn't think Canada would beat the US twice, so at least Canada lost the right game. Same thing happened at 2010 Olympics vs the US when they beat a Crosby led Canada 5-3 in round robins.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

And Canada likely wins the last 2 if likes of Celebrini('25),Bedard('24,'25), Benson('24,'25), Fantilli('24), Wright('24) and Korchinski('24) are there. US just missing cooley in 24 and smith in 25

I doubt Canada wins 2024. 2025? Maybe it happens. USA absolutely destroyed everyone in winning 2024. They've always had the best 2004 age group.

 

[Peiskos]

Are those players actually the best players? That's the question. If what you are saying holds up, sure, but I think there are fair questions there if Canada actually has every best player in a draft and like 2/3 of the best players (first rounders) or if the system works in a way where Canadians get priority draft slots and other nations don't, despite the actual disparity in who is what level of NHL prospect being nowhere near what the draft results suggest.

Well pretty much every analyst and board had them at the #1 picks so..yes they were I'd say.

 

[T REX]

Canada has better high end forwards but...
US is deeper at every position, including Center and Defence, which used to be Canada's main areas of domination.
.
Pretty crazy how quickly it flipped. Quebec has basically stopped producing elite NHLers, which points to broader societal changes as the root cause (ie. birth rates, demographic change, masculinity)

just for curiosity...what do you mean?

 

[beach]

Except Canada plays Russian hero puck now, not north american style. Not much physicality and size anymore, lots of individual skill and rush plays though.

Just like the loser Leafs!

 

[Brad3277]

No one game doesn't unseat Canada as #1 that's ridiculous.

That's like if Seattle beats Florida 3-1 on Saturday and then you come on here and ask if Florida are still the defending Stanley cup champions.

Of course they are 1 game doesn't change that, and 1 game doesn't change the fact Canada is #1

It's not your game anymore. Can we place a tariff on idiots booing a national anthem?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

My guess:

Canada goes out and loses to Finland... no way they want to see that American team in Boston... better to just tap out vs finland

 

[Peiskos]

It's not your game anymore. Can we place a tariff on idiots booing a national anthem?

You should get up to speed as to why they are booing, when you understand the reason you'll realize how it's acceptable.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Well pretty much every analyst and board had them at the #1 picks so..yes they were I'd say.

And as I've said, Canadians control the institutions.

Lane Hutson went 62. All the experts had him there, and now they have egg on their face.

Cole Hutson went 43. All the experts had him there, and now like 8 months later they're admitting he went about a round too late.

The proof will be in the pudding. Does Canada end up with drastically better results in those drafts or did they just clog up the primetime draft slots and didn't end up with the primetime NHL'ers when all is said and done?

 

[Peiskos]

And as I've said, Canadians control the institutions.

Lane Hutson went 62. All the experts had him there, and now they have egg on their face.

Cole Hutson went 43. All the experts had him there, and now like 8 months later they're admitting he went about a round too late.

The proof will be in the pudding. Does Canada end up with drastically better results in those drafts or did they just clog up the primetime draft slots and didn't end up with the primetime NHL'ers when all is said and done?

You're right the proof is in the pudding, Celebrini is clearly at the top of rookie scoring and has 40 points in 45 GP, Hutson has 41 points in 56 GP, so I think it's safe to safe he was one of the best players. He's averaging the most points per game too as a rookie, well ahead of Hutson.

Bedard is clearly by far and away the best player for his class too and is already an all star from that class the only one from that class actually so I fail to see where you're going with this lol.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Canada should have sent these guys to fight the Yanks