Did Mackinnon win the Hart because of pro Canadian Bias

[GOilers88]

What's the point in doing a poll when you clearly have a narrative to push and create poll options that reflect that?

 

[Golden_Jet]

What's the point in doing a poll when you clearly have a narrative to push and create poll options that reflect that?

Ya pollster isn’t addressing that, even though been asked.

 

[Crow]

I think he won because of bias, but I’m not sure it was a Canadian thing. Certainly not entirely but maybe partially among Canadian voters.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Lol

No.

 

[blundluntman]

It wasn't Canadian bias, it was just "Mackinnon's time". If McDavid had won the ross with 144 instead of Kucherov, they still would've given it to Mackinnon

 

[JianYang]

Do you think Canada is like 40 million Don cherrys or something?

 

[HockeyWooot]

Not a Canadian bias, but I think Kucherov does have something held against him to some degree.

 

[Signupnow]

Perhaps voters should have to add a their reasoning as they place the vote. Would be very interesting.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Don't think Canadian bias had anything to do with it. MacKinnon was the better storyline for the voters and this was a close race anyway.

 

[the_fan]

I really don’t understand why this is even a debate.

Kucherov 144 points
MacKinnon 140 points

Nate was plus 35
Kucherov just plus 8

Also goals are more valuable in the NHL and Nate had 51 goals. Kucherov had bunch of empty net assists, good for him.

So we’re talking only 4 less points for Nate while being a better defensive forward. Center vs wing with better plus minus, more goals and more even strength points.

There is no argument to be made why Nate won the Hart over Kucherov. He was the better player all year period. Kucherov fans just need to suck it up and accept it

 

[MXD]

He clearly got outscored by Kucherov and Kucherov plays on the worse team, did pro Canadian bias win Mackinnon the award cause they felt bad for him?

Similar to how Joel Embiid won the award over Jokic, did voters just feel bad that Mackinnon ain’t Kucherov level?

Don't worry, Jesus loves you.

 

[daver]

Here is the breakdown of voting by the PHWA:

PHWA reveals 2024 NHL Awards ballots – Professional Hockey Writers Association

www.thephwa.com

Maybe the OP should go through this list to back up their claim. Presumably, non-Canadian writers would be less "biased".

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Before you answer this question, you have to define what the Hart trophy is actually for, which apparently nobody can do.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Most valuable is so subjective, it usually goes to the best player.

The fact of the matter is, even if you think Kuch had the better offensive year, he really didn’t tilt the ice in his favor during the minutes he was playing at all, because he was giving up just as much, both from an actual goals and expected goals perspective. Not saying it’s a 100 percent accurate, as it’s probably impossible to get an actual net value on a player, but it’s definitely somewhat of an indicator. I’m just going to post a couple I was able to find from twitter and the athletic.

Even offensively Mackinnon just had a higher impact in general.

I certainly see the argument for kuch, but th narrative that Mack only won because he was ‘due’ is just stupid. Almost every metric says he had the best and well balanced year, especially with Mcdavid missing games.

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Power play points count but this really shows how much more McKinnon did for the Avalanche at even strength.

id still take Kucherov for 2nd even though Matthews has better 5 on 5 numbers for example.

Ya it is odd, maybe they need to redefine the wording, Instead of most valuable to his team.
Kuch had 54 more points than closest teammate, maybe close to highest ever.
Mack had 36 more points than closest teammate.

How much you outscore your nearest teammate isn’t a very thorough measure of more valuable though. Pasta and Panarin both outscored their closest teammates by 43 points this year. I wouldn’t say they were more valuable to their teams than MacKinnon

Exactly. It's silly to keep throwing out a stat that litterally only compares two players out of 23+ on a team. As if the other 21+ players somehow don't matter and don't do any scoring at all

I'm beginning to think the obsession with that stat is largrly because it's incredibly simple... it involves kindergarten-level subtraction. Throw out something more complicated like WAR or expected goals and these people will look at you as if your talking about rocket science.

I see this statement a lot. It ignores other player contributions.

We could discuss the fact the gap between 1st and 4th in scoring is 84 for McKinnon but only 68 for Kucherov.
Or go to 5th in scoring becoming 69 for Kucherov and 87 for McKinnon.

Both pplayers had amazing seasons. McKinnon crossed 50 goals. Kucherov crossed 100 assists.

I truly think both players had a deserving shot but because Tampa Bay has more depth than Colorado they felt McKinnons play was more MVP level then Kucherov.

Art Ross winners have a good shot at getting the Hart. It isn't always the case.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

MacKinnon won because he had the best season, according to the voters. OP is a whiny crybaby.

 

[BraveCanadian]

He won because he was the only player without one and it would feel wrong if he didn't have one.

That is a terrible reason for him to win

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Before you answer this question, you have to define what the Hart trophy is actually for, which apparently nobody can do.

its described as the most valuable to HIS team not the most valuable player in the league which is the main argument for Kuch over Mac imo

 

[wetcoast]

Isn’t McDavid more popular Canadian? They would have given it to him if this was a Canadian bias

Sure but everyone knows that McDavid list because there obviously is an anti Edmonton bias.

It's summer right?

Perhaps voters should have to add a their reasoning as they place the vote. Would be very interesting.

If only posters here were required to do this as well.....

 

[Dr Salt]

That is a terrible reason for him to win

No shit sherlock the voters tend to be terrible

 

[GMR]

It’s because Kucherov showed up drunk for the entire All Star weekend.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Do you think Canada is like 40 million Don cherrys or something?

I mean, Don Cherry was voted as one of the greatest Canadians of all time. Not greatest Canadian hockey people, but Canadians in general. Like a million people voted on that so it's not some small sample size.

Cherry's show was wildly popular and successful for decades. His nativism was obvious the entire time.

Many of us said so on this very forum (where Don Cherry was, for years, the ONLY hockey commentator to have his own permanent sticky thread). It's not as if he said something dumb/racist/nativist for the first time in 2022 or whenever it was. It wasn't some shocking reversal of sentiment. It was perfectly aligned with what he had been spewing for decades.

So yeah, there are many millions of Don Cherry fans in Canada.

To put it in perspective, there are worse things in the world than sports nativism - although sports nativism can possibly be a symptom of larger nativism, and larger nativism may also be a proxy for racism. So it's just an ugly path to go down. And it's arbitrary as well.

 

[JianYang]

I mean, Don Cherry was voted as one of the greatest Canadians of all time. Not greatest Canadian hockey people, but Canadians in general. Like a million people voted on that so it's not some small sample size.

Cherry's show was wildly popular and successful for decades. His nativism was obvious the entire time.

Many of us said so on this very forum (where Don Cherry was, for years, the ONLY hockey commentator to have his own permanent sticky thread). It's not as if he said something dumb/racist/nativist for the first time in 2022 or whenever it was. It wasn't some shocking reversal of sentiment. It was perfectly aligned with what he had been spewing for decades.

So yeah, there are many millions of Don Cherry fans in Canada.

To put it in perspective, there are worse things in the world than sports nativism - although sports nativism can possibly be a symptom of larger nativism, and larger nativism may also be a proxy for racism. So it's just an ugly path to go down. And it's arbitrary as well.

Cherry had a large audience but that pie needs to split even further because some people simply watched him due to the fact he was entertaining and unfiltered. It doesn't mean they agree with everything he said.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Cherry had a large audience but that pie needs to split even further because some people simply watched him due to the fact he was entertaining and unfiltered. It doesn't mean they agree with everything he said.

Indeed there is a spectrum of people who supported Cherry. It includes hardcore racists to people who were simply indifferent towards racists all the way to people who were oblivious to it, and also people who were in denial about it.

Of course, the Canadian hockey media has never actually reckoned with this. Denialism has been the preferred path - and so the systematic underrating of players like Kucherov (who was absurdly ranked outside the top 20 by some Canadian publications before this season) and Malkin (who was ridiculously ranked outside the top 100 players - below Jonathon Toews - by a mostly Canadian panel of the most prominent hockey minds) persists.

 

[K1900L]

MacKinnon was the only player of the 'big 4' (McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, MacKinnon) who had yet to win individual awards, so it was quite obvious that he would go into the race with some additional advantages because this is just how voters and players think.

Matthews didn't win his individual awards because he outplayed his peers (in fact, he was 17 points behind McDavid, 4 behind Draisaitl), but because he was THE big name (Toronto bias) in need for awards + he was the first player to put up 60 goals in a long time and gave them a new story other than 'McDrai outscoring anyone' and 'Kucherov and the Lightning ripping through the league for another time' over and over again.

This being said, there will be four forwards by the end of this decade who have dominated year by year and I'm totally fine with any of them winning individual awards. Nathan deserves this one and was actually much closer to being the most dominant player than other players who have also won individual awards. In fact, I don't think there was any gap between MacKinnon and Kucherov this year and either of them would have deserved to win.

 

[McBaevid]

I’m Kucherovs #1 hater and he should have won over everyone this year. Mackinnon go his narrative awards this year