Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[BlueBaron]

It's kind of like comparing Wayne to Messier.

 

[blundluntman]

Sure it's not the answer to every problem, but when your preferred play style is at odds with the vast majority of the players on your team, and league for that matter, it's not a stretch to say that has a negative impact on your teammates production, and possibly the team's success.

I agree in general, but I don't think that's the case with Edmonton

 

[GreatGonzo]

It's kind of like comparing Wayne to Messier.

Which ones Messier….

 

[norrisnick]

Which ones Messier….

I'm going to assume it's the guy with more Cups but fewer individual accolades...

 

[GreatGonzo]

I'm going to assume it's the guy with more Cups but fewer individual accolades...

Messier has become so overrated. He doesn’t come close to Crosby and McDavid.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

2006: 3.08 GPG/ 1.03 PP/ 5.85 PPO
2007: 2.96 GPG/ 0.85 PP/ 4.85 PPO
2008: 2.78 GPG/ 0.76 PP/ 4.28 PPO
2009: 2.91 GPG/ 0.79 PP/ 4.16 PPO
2010: 2.85 GPG/ 0.68 PP/ 3.71 PPO

2016: 2.71 GPG/ 0.58 PP/ 3.11 PPO
2017: 2.77 GPG/ 0.57 PP/ 2.99 PPO
2018: 2.97 GPG/ 0.61 PP/ 3.04 PPO
2019: 3.01 GPG/ 0.58 PP/ 2.92 PPO
2020: 3.02 GPG/ 0.60 PP/ 2.97 PPO

Is that accurate enough for you? Since you apparently couldn’t do it yourself. Glad to have helped ease your suspicions though..

Yeah, not sure why the onus would be on me to look it up. You are such a lazy poster, citing statistics that you don't even know.

Looks like McDavid actually came into a lower scoring environment compared to Crosby within their first 5 years with significantly less PP opportunities and points overall.

Looks like the year or two after the lockout they called penalties at a higher clip, but after that it swings considerably McDavid's way by 20 basis points in the 3rd-5th season. So, just two years where Crosby had a higher scoring environment than McDavid. Not this 5 year period you tried to portray.

So seems like Crosby actually came into the league with a slightly higher goals per game, all while having more PP opportunities and having more PPs being handed out during those days. This is pretty different from the “physical” and “clutch and grab era” style of play that the poster insisted …

Yeah, for a total of a whopping two seasons, and then McDavid gets thrusted into a considerably higher scoring environment for the remainder.

Look them up then, you’ll find out you’re wrong again.

Wrong again? About what exactly?

That’s okay. He’ll just pretend he meant something else entirely again.

Y'all can't even keep track of the conversations where you are hurling underserved insults. The vitriol from the McDavid extremist on here is real. Blinded by Crosby hate maybe too, ready to growl at anybody who questions their faulty logic, like 2 years == 5 years somehow.

 

[nbwingsfan]

They are on the same tier neither is removed from the other a great deal here.


They were both the worst teams in the league and sure Pittsburg was a little better but Crosby was better as well.

Recchi, Palffy, Gonchar, Leclaire, Whitney >>>>>>> Murphy, Dickinson, Kurashev,

It’s way more than a “little better”

They were very comparable, most of the 05 Penguins were out of the league within two years. The Penguins only had 6 more points than Chicago, mostly because Crosby was already a top 5 forward in the league, while Bedard was far from that.

See above

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Crosby was really “lifting” his teammates in the finals in ‘09 with his 3 points in 7 games. While McDavids 11 points in 7 games is him “acting” like he’s better than his team.

1st point was one that gave them the lead in game 3.
2nd point was the one that gave them the lead in game 4
3rd point was a beauty assist to a 3rd liner to put game 4 away

Looks like he factored big on 2 wins in that series. I think 'lifted his teammates up' is a fair statement.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Just my opinion based on his demeanor and the way his teams have played, which benefits 97's game at the expense of the less gifted members of the Oilers.

I think he forces his teams to play a certain way and I can't see him buying into playing a trapping system like Crosby did under Therrien.

Based on the shape of his eyeballs, I think Crosby kicks dogs on Sundays and has forced the Pens to keep Sullivan to the detriment of the entire organization because Sullivan supplies him with said dogs.

Due to this, McDavid is clearly better.

We have about the same logical argument here.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Recchi, Palffy, Gonchar, Leclaire, Whitney >>>>>>> Murphy, Dickinson, Kurashev,

It’s way more than a “little better”

Why are these players being compared? Oilers had Eberle, RNH, Draisaitl, and Hall in his prime, who went on to win the Hart a couple seasons later. That oilers team was solid up front offensively, and McDavid had very similar offensive support as Crosby when he came in the league.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Why are these players being compared? Oilers had Eberle, RNH, Draisaitl, and Hall in his prime, who went on to win the Hart a couple seasons later. That oilers team was solid up front offensively, and McDavid had very similar offensive support as Crosby when he came in the league.

That’s amazing, we’re talking about Bedard. Keep up.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

That’s amazing, we’re talking about Bedard. Keep up.

Yikes, I don't think I want to follow you all down that rabbit hole. I saw people comparing Crosby vs McDavid's initial teams they started with at various points throughout this thread, and the conversation seemed similar but very off topic, thus I asked why these players were being compared. I don't want to continue following y'all off the track of this thread's premise. Cheers.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yeah, not sure why the onus would be on me to look it up. You are such a lazy poster, citing statistics that you don't even know.

Looks like the year or two after the lockout they called penalties at a higher clip, but after that it swings considerably McDavid's way by 20 basis points in the 3rd-5th season. So, just two years where Crosby had a higher scoring environment than McDavid. Not this 5 year period you tried to portray.

Yeah, for a total of a whopping two seasons, and then McDavid gets thrusted into a considerably higher scoring environment for the remainder.


Wrong again? About what exactly?


Y'all can't even keep track of the conversations where you are hurling underserved insults. The vitriol from the McDavid extremist on here is real. Blinded by Crosby hate maybe too, ready to growl at anybody who questions their faulty logic, like 2 years == 5 years somehow.

About what lol, you’re a funny guy, or just being obtuse.
You make it way to easy to burn, try harder, oh wait that is your best lol.
You’ve been owned for 60 pages now it seems.

Crosby slightly higher goals per game, but basically a wash.
Crosby played with more PPO.

Crosby over the 5 years you selected.
2.92 goals per game average.
PPO - 4.57 average (PP opportunities)

McDavid over the 5 years
2.90 goals per game
PPO - 3.00 average. (PP opportunities)

You said this
Looks like the year or two after the lockout they called penalties at a higher clip, but after that it swings considerably McDavid's way by 20 basis points in the 3rd-5th season.
lol is reading numbers hard, Crosby’s lowest PPO is 3.71.
McDavid highest number for PPO is 3.11
So wrong again and again and again now.

Probably best to hang up the skates, you lose every race.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Yeah, not sure why the onus would be on me to look it up. You are such a lazy poster, citing statistics that you don't even know.

Looks like the year or two after the lockout they called penalties at a higher clip, but after that it swings considerably McDavid's way by 20 basis points in the 3rd-5th season. So, just two years where Crosby had a higher scoring environment than McDavid. Not this 5 year period you tried to portray.

Yeah, for a total of a whopping two seasons, and then McDavid gets thrusted into a considerably higher scoring environment for the remainder.


Wrong again? About what exactly?


Y'all can't even keep track of the conversations where you are hurling underserved insults. The vitriol from the McDavid extremist on here is real. Blinded by Crosby hate maybe too, ready to growl at anybody who questions their faulty logic, like 2 years == 5 years somehow.

I provided the stats that you claimed I “pulled out of my rear end” and then you do your usual dance around it while once again moving the goal posts.

And the Pens were one of the top teams in getting on PP and scoring on the PP. like I stated, PP points and opportunities were massive when Crosby came into the league compared to McDavid. I took the first 5 years of each of their career because that was the argument. You clearly have no idea what the argument was even about. You just decided to include yourself in attempt to “catch me” on my false stats. Looks like that didn’t happen…

You can’t accuse someone of “not keeping track of the conversation” when you continuously change your stance whenever it isn’t going your way.

The poster I was quoting, the one you decided to follow up with…he claimed Crosby came into a LOWER SCORING environment than McDavid. That Crosbys era was full of obstruction and physicality where as McDavids was not. That Joe Thorntons 96 assists was better because of a “lower scoring era.” Compared to McDavids 100 assists.

All of which were proven wrong. Go ahead of move the goal posts one more time though.

1st point was one that gave them the lead in game 3.
2nd point was the one that gave them the lead in game 4
3rd point was a beauty assist to a 3rd liner to put game 4 away

Looks like he factored big on 2 wins in that series. I think 'lifted his teammates up' is a fair statement.

He had 1 assists in a 4-2 win and a goal and assists In another 4-2 win, that’s 8 goals scored for the Pens, Crosby having a hand scoring one of them, and then having a hand in two of them…crazy how that’s “lifting” his team up

Nothing but reaching on your part. I’ve never seen someone justify 3 points so desperately. Especially given how he played the next 3 games

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

 

[GreatGonzo]

Cool, haven’t seen any other player do that ever.

Was this supposed to be something significant?

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

About what lol, you’re a funny guy, or just being obtuse.
You make it way to easy to burn, try harder, oh wait that is your best lol.
You’ve been owned for 60 pages now it seems.

Eh, seems you have been in your echo chamber for too long.

Crosby slightly higher goals per game, but basically a wash.

Slightly higher in a lower scoring era. He has two rockets to McDavids 1. In his 09 run, he had double the goals that McDavid did in his 24 run. Crosby is the better goal scorer, the stats show it, and if you ever. watched him in his prime you would see the best garbage goal scorer this league has ever seen, with one of the silkiest backhands to boot.

Crosby played with more PPO.

Crosby over the 5 years you selected.
2.92 goals per game average.
PPO - 4.57 average (PP opportunities)

McDavid over the 5 years
2.90 goals per game
PPO - 3.00 average. (PP opportunities)

Yeah, cause the league needed the power plays, since it was so hard to score on these legendary goalies with hilariously oversized pads. Cite PP opportunities all you want, the relevant statistic was goals per game, and McDavid came into a league where 3 of his first 5 seasons were in a higher goals per game league.

You said this
Looks like the year or two after the lockout they called penalties at a higher clip, but after that it swings considerably McDavid's way by 20 basis points in the 3rd-5th season.
lol is reading numbers hard, Crosby’s lowest PPO is 3.71.
McDavid highest number for PPO is 3.11
So wrong again and again and again now.

Probably best to hang up the skates, you lose every race.

Yup, when they lowered the PPO in 2007 and then again in 2008, it had a drastic effect on goals per game for Crosby's 3rd-5th season. Even though PPO was higher for his 3rd-5th season than McDavid, it was lower than his 1st and 2nd season, and had a big impact on a league that was starved for offense due to the goalie equipement issues mentioned above.

Cool, haven’t seen any other player do that ever.

Was this supposed to be something significant?

Yup, it was a cool goal. Glad I could show you something you have never seen before. Looked like Crosby showing his versatility in the goal scoring department by splitting the D like McDavid does with his speed.

It also breaks up the monotony in this thread, with people hurling an insult and trying to sound as snarky as possible. Here is a McDavid goal to Perry from this last playoffs where he split the D.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Eh, seems you have been in your echo chamber for too long.

Slightly higher in a lower scoring era. He has two rockets to McDavids 1. In his 09 run, he had double the goals that McDavid did in his 24 run. Crosby is the better goal scorer, the stats show it, and if you ever. watched him in his prime you would see the best garbage goal scorer this league has ever seen, with one of the silkiest backhands to boot.

Yeah, cause the league needed the power plays, since it was so hard to score on these legendary goalies with hilariously oversized pads. Cite PP opportunities all you want, the relevant statistic was goals per game, and McDavid came into a league where 3 of his first 5 seasons were in a higher goals per game league.

Yup, when they lowered the PPO in 2007 and then again in 2008, it had a drastic effect on goals per game for Crosby's 3rd-5th season. Even though PPO was higher for his 3rd-5th season than McDavid, it was lower than his 1st and 2nd season, and had a big impact on a league that was starved for offense due to the goalie equipement issues mentioned above.


Yup, it was a cool goal. Glad I could show you something you have never seen before. Looked like Crosby showing his versatility in the goal scoring department by splitting the D like McDavid does with his speed.

It also breaks up the monotony in this thread, with people hurling an insult and trying to sound as snarky as possible. Here is a McDavid goal to Perry from this last playoffs where he split the D.

McDavid has more goals in the finals
In a 7 game span than Crosby does in 25 games. But I’m sure that’s due to “lower scoring era” too?

Again, you are once again changing the standards of the argument. Which is no surprise. I would highly encourage you to go back and look at the original posts instead of walking into something thinking you can just BS your way through it.

Has never been done Before? You sure?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Recchi, Palffy, Gonchar, Leclaire, Whitney >>>>>>> Murphy, Dickinson, Kurashev,

It’s way more than a “little better”


See above

You listed the supposed best players on the Penguins (which makes it funny that you added Leclaire) and didn't do the same for Chicago. Pretty clear you're not acting in good faith so it's not worthwhile dealing with you

 

[wetcoast]

Huh...

Maybe remember what you post, dude.

So what is that supposed to signify exactly?

 

[nbwingsfan]

You listed the supposed best players on the Penguins (which makes it funny that you added Leclaire) and didn't do the same for Chicago. Pretty clear you're not acting in good faith so it's not worthwhile dealing with you

Uhhh… who the hell else would you list on Chicago? They didn’t have any good players outside of Bedard lol.

Leclaire had 22G and 51 pts which would be 2nd in goals and 3rd in points on the Hawks

The Pens had 8 (outside of Crosby) players pace or score more than 40pts, including Recchi and Palffy who were both 70-80pt paces.

The Hawks had 2 players pace or get 40pts I believe, and none pace for anywhere close to 70+

Their support wasn’t remotely similar and that’s not debatable whatsoever

 

[GreatGonzo]

You listed the supposed best players on the Penguins (which makes it funny that you added Leclaire) and didn't do the same for Chicago. Pretty clear you're not acting in good faith so it's not worthwhile dealing with you

Says the poster who said this:

“Just my opinion based on his demeanor and the way his teams have played, which benefits 97's game at the expense of the less gifted members of the Oilers.”

Ya this is totally arguing/acting in good faith and should be taken seriously…

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Another day goes by where Sidney Crosby is viewed as the greatest player of the century.

Don’t you guys love to see it?

Ranking the top 25 NHL players of the 21st century

From Crosby to Thornton, Ovechkin to Chara, here are hockey's best from the past 25 years.

abc7chicago.com

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

McDavid has more goals in the inals
In a 7 game span than Crosby does in 25 games. But I’m sure that’s due to “lower scoring era” too?

What an odd statistic. Caps were a powerhouse team and possibly just as tough to dispatch then the wings that year for the Penguins. Let me cherry pick a random stat too. Crosby had almost just as many goals in a 7 game span as McDavid had in his entire 25 game playoff run last year.

Again, you are once again changing the standards of the argument. Which is no surprise. I would highly encourage you to go back and look at the original posts instead of walking into something thinking you can just BS your way through it.

Has never been done Before? You sure?

I am not. The argument was to portray McDavid as somehow coming into a league that had less benefits to score. Its patently false, and PPO won't demonstrate that, but GPG. Continue talking about whatever you want to talk about, but with regards to scoring environment, it isn't close. McDavid's 3rd-9th season has taken place in a much easier scoring environment than Crosby's 3rd-9th.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Another day goes by where Sidney Crosby is viewed as the greatest player of the century.

Don’t you guys love to see it?

Ranking the top 25 NHL players of the 21st century

From Crosby to Thornton, Ovechkin to Chara, here are hockey's best from the past 25 years.

abc7chicago.com

But that was done by a collection of ESPN writers, what do they know? We have GreatGonzo and Video Nasty as objective authorities on Crosby.

'Crosby's teammate Kris Letang recalled how, in Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Final against San Jose, Crosby vowed he and Letang would team-up on the "biggest goal" of the night. They wound up connecting for a game-winner that secured Pittsburgh's fourth Cup in franchise history. Letang was understandably stunned by Crosby's fortune-telling prowess on such a large stage.'

'But Crosby impresses in the smaller moments, too. Former linemate Conor Sheary recalled Crosby assuring him when they were paired together that Sheary was "there for a reason and to play my game." It was the sort of calming presence Sheary needed and a gesture from Crosby he's never forgotten.'

You really wrote that and thought….ya that’s a logical and well thought out statement…

Crosby was really “lifting” his teammates in the finals in ‘09 with his 3 points in 7 games. While McDavids 11 points in 7 games is him “acting” like he’s better than his team.

Who do we listen to? Former teammates and professional writers, or GreatGonzo?