SeanMoneyHands
Registered User
- Apr 18, 2019
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Devon Toews vs Darnell Nurse
- Thread starter Cousin Eddie
- Start date
The defense was the driver of that depth. Those defensemen also played with the likes of Jimothy Timothy Compher, Tyson Jost, PEB etc and still drove those metrics like crazy.
What the hell are you talking about cf% is not a model
nothing you have said disproves his impact considering his impact on other team mates when he is on and off the ice.
kthx
Bedard to Bruins 2023
- Apr 24, 2019
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Llamamoto
Nice Bison. Kind Bison. Yep.
- Sep 5, 2018
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McDNicks17
Moderator
No one said Corsi haha.
WAR charts are almost entirely just a simple visual for already established expected goal models.
yup still can’t grasp the concept of his impact on the team and regression analysis
sigh
McDNicks17
Moderator
a mangy Meowth
Ross Colton Fan
Well yeah, no shit. The players on the team being good (in a system that plays to their strengths) made their numbers look better than if they were worse players or the system were a poorer fit. I'm not being deliberately obtuse here, you're just making an argument with zero substance.
Nobody worth their salt takes any of these rel stats purely at face value. They're still worth discussing and provide insight though.
so by your claims then their “above replacement stats” should be identical among guys like graves and Toews.
hahahahaha
Check notes
a mangy Meowth
Ross Colton Fan
You show your work lmfao. You're the one pissing on these demonstrable stats without providing any real argument other than the quite funny "WAR ignores quality of competition" zinger you had early on.
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123offtheglass
Registered User
McDNicks17
Moderator
Those "demonstrable" stats are simply expected goals for and expected goals against put into a pretty little chart.
They almost entirely ignore role, time on ice, competition and teammates. That's not even mentioning that they're comparing players that pretty much played across four different leagues last year.
ManofSteel55
Registered User
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ManofSteel55
Registered User
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a mangy Meowth
Ross Colton Fan
They actually don't ignore TOI, QoC, QoT, etc. Maybe in your opinion the data isn't representative of anything and that's fine and very possibly true, but those are absolutely taken into account be it in a flawed way or not. You're welcome to not believe that the charts say anything of value, but I feel like you can, in fact, gain some insight through expected goal values.
Anyways, those are a lot of hefty claims you are making in regards to well documented analytics. Show your work please.
a mangy Meowth
Ross Colton Fan
Your initial rebuttal hardly even deserved a response, let alone a well thought out one.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
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Who are you to question charts that suggest Seth Jones was replacement level last year?
ManofSteel55
Registered User
I responded to you. Then you responded to me. With a statement a 5 year old could have made, hence my "well thought out rebuttal".
If he thought it didn't deserve a response, he wouldn't have responded.
If this is the level of conversation you two are bringing to this discussion, I will see myself out. You are a half step from "I am rubber you are glue" here.
McDNicks17
Moderator
I didn't say you couldn't gain any insight from expected goal models. I'm saying, in this particular case, the insight you will get is unreliable because those numbers don't account for the difference in competition, team, division, etc.
And I didn't say they ignored those things. I said they almost do because they're weighted so low they have almost no impact on the numbers.
I really didn't think the statement that Toews isn't quite as good as the numbers on those WAR charts say(aka the 5th best defenseman in the league) would be all that controversial.
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