Devon Toews vs Darnell Nurse

[Cousin Eddie]

Who’s better? (Contracts not factored. Imagine they both make the same for sake of this poll)

Click to read more...

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Ignoring contracts I’d take Nurse pretty easily. His contract is bad but he’s still a top pairing D.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Ignoring contracts I’d take Nurse pretty easily. His contract is bad but he’s still a top pairing D.

Out of curiosity, what do you consider Toews?

 

[Gurglesons]

Toews.

 

[KevinRedkey]

It's hard to ignore contracts, so I expect Toews to win this.... but... Nurse is the better player as of right now.

 

[Muffin]

Toews AINEC applies here.

 

[McDNicks17]

Toews AINEC applies here.

The key stat there is quality of competition. Something WAR does a terrible job of factoring in.

 

[Muffin]

The key stat there is quality of competition. Something WAR does a terrible job of factoring in.

Toews play on the top pair with Makar he’s always one of the ice time leader on the Avs. The reason his QoC is not as high is probably because Colorado doesn’t really run a “shut down” pair.

 

[McDNicks17]

Toews play on the top pair with Makar he’s always one of the ice time leader on the Avs. The reason his QoC is not as high is probably because Colorado doesn’t really run a “shut down” pair.

It isn't as high because he played 17.9% of his ice time against elite competition.

Meanwhile Nurse played 37.5% of his against elites.

There's a vast difference in quality of team and quality of competition that's basically ignored in WAR.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Toews AINEC applies here.

I'll pay attention to your WAR charts when you can post what they mean, in detail. There are so many posters who just dump these into a thread without understanding what they mean or the flaws that make them not as useful as you would think.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Out of curiosity, what do you consider Toews?

I consider Toews to be a #2 defenseman. Nurse is a #1 defenseman. This discussion gets more interesting if contracts are taken into consideration, as Toews is on a steal of a deal and Nurse is not, but for the quality of player, contracts not considered, it has to be Nurse.

 

[JaegerDice]

Very clearly Toews.

 

[GreeningOil]

How is it clear one way or another? How does quality of competition not factor in? Elite teammate as well? If Drai is better because of McD, Toews must be better from Makar?

According to many, the Oilers defense is inferior as well. Trade Nurse for Toews right now and the Oilers are worse, no doubt about it

 

[The Moose is Loose]

If they’re the same price Nurse. He’s better than Toews (but not by much).

If you factor in contracts it explains the landslide that is the other poll

 

[Jayevs]

How is it clear one way or another? How does quality of competition not factor in? Elite teammate as well? If Drai is better because of McD, Toews must be better from Makar?

According to many, the Oilers defense is inferior as well. Trade Nurse for Toews right now and the Oilers are worse, no doubt about it

No thanks on the bolded. I had to watch Makar babysit Graves’ ass for too long and don’t want to watch him do it for Nurse.

 

[GreeningOil]

No thanks on the bolded. I had to watch Makar babysit Graves’ ass for too long and don’t want to watch him do it for Nurse.

Makar & Nurse don’t work together as a pain IMO. They’re both puck carriers. Nurse does the babysitting for Barrie 5v5

 

[M88K]

This is still clearly Toews. Contracts are irrelevant. Toews > Nurse.
Factor in the contracts and it becomes
Toews>>>>>>>>>>>Nurse

 

[ManofSteel55]

No thanks on the bolded. I had to watch Makar babysit Graves’ ass for too long and don’t want to watch him do it for Nurse.

Nurse isn't a Graves. He does the babysitting.

 

[Jayevs]

Nurse isn't a Graves. He does the babysitting.

I disagree, he’s essentially graves with elite skating, so he’s able to cover his blunders a lot more often for himself and get back into position but his IQ is no where close to his physical tools

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Nurse is clearly the better player.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I disagree, he’s essentially graves with elite skating, so he’s able to cover his blunders a lot more often for himself and get back into position but his IQ is no where close to his physical tools

Nurse's IQ is fine, and not nearly the liability that people suggest. There was a time when questioning his hockey IQ was valid. That time has long since passed. His decision making and positioning are very good now, so I don't see where the IQ criticism comes from, aside from leftover remnants from 5 years ago.

 

[Jayevs]

Nurse's IQ is fine, and not nearly the liability that people suggest. There was a time when questioning his hockey IQ was valid. That time has long since passed. His decision making and positioning are very good now, so I don't see where the IQ criticism comes from, aside from leftover remnants from 5 years ago.

You’re totally entitled to your opinion. Like I said I just disagree. If he’s such an elite defence man he should be able to tilt the ice even when he’s not with McD or Drai but he gets caved in.

 

[ManofSteel55]

You’re totally entitled to your opinion. Like I said I just disagree. If he’s such an elite defence man he should be able to tilt the ice even when he’s not with McD or Drai but he gets caved in.

Ah yes, cliche's like "tilt the ice" and "caved in". I'm guessing all of your information comes from WAR charts too, where quality of linemates and quality of competition are all but ignored. Nobody could "tilt the ice" when the line on the ice was Neal - Haas - Chaisson or Kahun - Khaira - Ennis. Those are lines designed to hang on for dear life and hope to survive. I don't think its a coincidence that only one of those guys has an NHL contract right now, and that's only to be a PK specialist.

 

[bsu]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. I couldn't BELIEVE when I saw that Nurse contract.

 

[TheRarestDangles]

I'm taking Mr. Intangibles all day AINEC