Prospect Info: Devils Win #2 Overall -- Slafkovsky vs. Jiricek vs. Nemec

What should we do with #2?

  • Slafkovsky

    Votes: 220 61.5%
  • Jiricek

    Votes: 56 15.6%
  • Nemec

    Votes: 30 8.4%
  • Trade it

    Votes: 39 10.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 13 3.6%

  • Total voters
    358
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Captain3rdLine

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Sep 24, 2020
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Eh, not so sure about that...

I don't want to put too much weight on the opinion of so-called "experts" like Wheeler and Pronman, especially since they're dealing with so many players, but when one of them has Walsh as our #3 in their most recent rankings behind only Holtz & Hughes (albeit, he did say there were a lot of candidates for that spot) I do think it says something.

We also don't need top 4 potential out of Walsh, particularly if Severson is re-signed as that locks up both top 4 RD spots for the foreseeable future. I do understand he may not be the best fit for how this team is constructed, so maybe he gets dealt at some point as a result, but I don't think that should disqualify him from possibly earning a spot next season if he has a good camp/pre-season.

I thought I had read that he made good progress on his defense this past season and although there are plenty of flaws with +/-, he was 3rd among Utica defensemen this season with a +12. I just with the AHL released ATOI stats so we could learn more about how the players were used.

Anyway, I guess I'm one of the few that remains high on Walsh's potential. We'll all learn a lot more about him in September I'm sure.
Ya I think you’re just overrating him and I agree we don’t need him to be top 4 but he doesn’t really make sense as a third pair player for stylistic reasons. His defense is still not great from what I’ve seen and read.

I also don’t think it means much when one of those guys rank him there because It’s highly unlikely that they have actually watched much of him play this season if any. He put up good numbers, that’s very likely what they’re going off of. They watch the incoming draft prospects and that’s 90% of their work. They might watch the odd AHL game but there’s no way they’re focusing on it to the point where they could come up with good rankings of AHL players
 
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Drill

Registered User
May 8, 2022
17
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Slafkovsky has the best combination of playmaking/puckhandling of any player in the 2022 class -- better than Wright or Cooley or Savoie or Geekie or Lambert or whomever. They are absolutely elite tools. Puljujarvi did not have a singular trait at such a high level. I'd also grade most of Slafkovsky's tools across the board over Puljujarvi's, especially hockey IQ.

Puljujarvi is a very good player, and I like him a lot. He's an excellent 2nd-line winger, and I think he still has a bit of untapped upside to become even better. But Slafkovsky's trio of elite tools (playmaking/puckhandling/hockey IQ) combined with a litany of other plus tools (compete/shot/skating) and a 6'4-220 frame make him truly a rare prospect.
You had Puljujarvi third overall in 2018.

But sure thing, he has not a single trait worth a top pick right?

You just stick your opinions out like fact and everyone here believes it. Yet you contradict yourself all the time

You didnt have Slafkovsky anywhere near this hyped before the Devils were out of the playoff race. Now all of a suddeny oure drooling over him. You play to the crowd and you know it.
 

Triumph

Registered User
Oct 2, 2007
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You had Puljujarvi third overall in 2018.

But sure thing, he has not a single trait worth a top pick right?

You just stick your opinions out like fact and everyone here believes it. Yet you contradict yourself all the time

You didnt have Slafkovsky anywhere near this hyped before the Devils were out of the playoff race. Now all of a suddeny oure drooling over him. You play to the crowd and you know it.

Registered: May 8, 2022

Another traveler who somehow knows the intricacies of posters from years ago but somehow couldn't be bothered to sign up until recently. Or maybe something happened.
 

Captain3rdLine

Registered User
Sep 24, 2020
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You had Puljujarvi third overall in 2018.

But sure thing, he has not a single trait worth a top pick right?

You just stick your opinions out like fact and everyone here believes it. Yet you contradict yourself all the time

You didnt have Slafkovsky anywhere near this hyped before the Devils were out of the playoff race. Now all of a suddeny oure drooling over him. You play to the crowd and you know it.
FYI man he’s been high on Slafkovsky for quite a while. Look up his past posts. It’s pretty easy. He’s been talking about Slafkovsky like this for a while now.
Before we won the lottery he was hyping him up but saying there’s no chance he would get to us around 5 or 6.

Not sure what being out of the playoff race has to do with this. Slafkovsky has improved his stock dramatically since December or whenever we were out of the playoff race. But even in the fall months STI was talking up how good Slafkovsky’s potential is. And since then he has had some great performances that have cemented him as a top 3 pick.

This is just a weird post attacking someone for no reason at all. Don’t just come in and attack another poster who contributes a lot to these boards. I disagree with him on certain things but he clearly puts a lot of work in and has his own opinions.
 

njdevils1982

Hell Toupée!!!
Sep 8, 2006
40,223
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North of Toronto
You had Puljujarvi third overall in 2018.

But sure thing, he has not a single trait worth a top pick right?

You just stick your opinions out like fact and everyone here believes it. Yet you contradict yourself all the time

You didnt have Slafkovsky anywhere near this hyped before the Devils were out of the playoff race. Now all of a suddeny oure drooling over him. You play to the crowd and you know it.

for poster Drill,

so, 16 posts and nothing better to say than rip on a respected poster here?

ya...see ya... *poof*
 
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glenwo2

JESPER BRATWURST
Oct 18, 2008
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Pronman released an article this morning ranking prospects based purely on their upside. Top of his list was:

1. Cooley
2. Slafkovsky
3. Gauthier
4. Wright
5. Miroshnichenko
6. Jiricek
7. Nemec

Pronman is insane.

Cooley has more upside than SHANE WRIGHT? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

giphy.gif
 

ninetyeight

Registered User
Jun 3, 2007
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@Drill makes a fair point though, even though it came out a tad aggressive. STI has a habit of over-hyping prospects, and that's coming from me who just loves potential. Everyone of these prospects this year can be busts, even worse than Puljujärvi. Nobody can know for sure. Some might be safer than some, but who knows what happens.

That said, I watched a bunch of Oilers these playoffs, and I'm really not interested in Puljujärvi. He's not bad, but he's not really great either, he's just a guy. His hockey iq and decision making is still questionable.
 

OmNomNom

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Mar 3, 2011
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@Drill makes a fair point though, even though it came out a tad aggressive. STI has a habit of over-hyping prospects, and that's coming from me who just loves potential. Everyone of these prospects this year can be busts, even worse than Puljujärvi. Nobody can know for sure. Some might be safer than some, but who knows what happens.

That said, I watched a bunch of Oilers these playoffs, and I'm really not interested in Puljujärvi. He's not bad, but he's not really great either, he's just a guy. His hockey iq and decision making is still questionable.
i'd rather someone take extremes on projecting a player and be totally wrong, than the opposite (oh, shane wright seems good, but could be bad, so.... idk)

the whole point of scouting isn't to be right 100% of the time anyway - it's a continual study of seeing where you might've went wrong, so you can figure out how to be better in the future. the best scouts will acknowledge their blunders, which STI has
 

Billdo

Registered User
Oct 28, 2008
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Are you forgetting about Reilly Walsh or just think he has no shot at the NHL?

FWIW, Scott Wheeler had him listed as our #3 prospect (after Holtz & Hughes) in his latest team prospect pool rankings back in February, noting:



McCarthy was not on his list, which included 25 players.

In my opinion, what the Devils decide to do with Severson plays a role in what they do in the draft. Fitz should be talking contract extension with him and see if they can at least agree in principle to a deal prior to the draft (and hopefully go with Slaf). The key is to be able to limit the amount of teams on a NTC for Severson (even it if means a slightly higher AAV and/or term) so that they can move his contract if needed in the future if/when cap space becomes an issue.

That would leave the Devils largely set at RD going forward, with two top 4 defenders in Hamilton and Severson locked up long-term. Give Walsh every opportunity to earn that 3rd pairing RD spot this upcoming season. I also think there's a good chance that Luke Hughes winds up on the right side, considering that's where he's been playing the past few seasons, which further negates the need for a RD this draft.
Eh, I'm not super high on Walsh but admittedly I did forget about him. His defensive game is not very good and his skating isn't either so that's probably why. I do like him though but wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't turn into much.
 
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ninetyeight

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i'd rather someone take extremes on projecting a player and be totally wrong, than the opposite (oh, shane wright seems good, but could be bad, so.... idk)

the whole point of scouting isn't to be right 100% of the time anyway - it's a continual study of seeing where you might've went wrong, so you can figure out how to be better in the future. the best scouts will acknowledge their blunders, which STI has

Sure, me too, and I think we're blessed to have a guy like him post here. But I can also see how his strong opinions and sweeping his blunders under the rug can rub people the wrong way. Especially now when we are talking about an older high ranked draft pick vs new one. It does come off as "yeah this guy who I convinced you was gonna be great, just isn't any good, but trust me this next guy for sure is gonna be great" ;)
 

RememberTheName

Conductor of the Schmid Bandwagon
Jan 5, 2016
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Pronman is insane.

Cooley has more upside than SHANE WRIGHT? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

giphy.gif
I don't really see why this is crazy. A lot of people's issue with Shane Wright (including mine) is a perceived lack of upside to his game, whereas Cooley is all upside with his ridiculous combination of 200 foot play and game-changing skill with the puck.
 

Devs3cups

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I don't really see why this is crazy. A lot of people's issue with Shane Wright (including mine) is a perceived lack of upside to his game, whereas Cooley is all upside with his ridiculous combination of 200 foot play and game-changing skill with the puck.
Pretty much this. I love Wright as a prospect, but I feel like I already know what I'm getting with him, which isn't to say that's a bad thing. He's the safe pick.

Cooley could be the best player in the draft with his dynamic skillset, but he comes with more risk than Wright.
 
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glenwo2

JESPER BRATWURST
Oct 18, 2008
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Pretty much this. I love Wright as a prospect, but I feel like I already know what I'm getting with him, which isn't to say that's a bad thing. He's the safe pick.

Cooley could be the best player in the draft with his dynamic skillset, but he comes with more risk than Wright.
And it's that risk that concerns me.

The risk of him not being able to reach that "upside" and instead be still less of a player than Shane Wright .

Sometimes the "safe pick" is the right pick.

I don't really see why this is crazy. A lot of people's issue with Shane Wright (including mine) is a perceived lack of upside to his game, whereas Cooley is all upside with his ridiculous combination of 200 foot play and game-changing skill with the puck.
Curious....If he's got such upside, why are the Habs not reported as being all-in on drafting HIM instead of Wright?
 
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OmNomNom

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Sure, me too, and I think we're blessed to have a guy like him post here. But I can also see how his strong opinions and sweeping his blunders under the rug can rub people the wrong way. Especially now when we are talking about an older high ranked draft pick vs new one. It does come off as "yeah this guy who I convinced you was gonna be great, just isn't any good, but trust me this next guy for sure is gonna be great" ;)
i don't really see any sweeping done though -- being wrong comes w the territory and he's owned up to his missed calls.. we're also discussing this in a vacuum without his input
 

Lottery Lucky

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May 10, 2022
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@StevenToddIves maybe you are right about Slafkovsky's ceiling. I still think Cooley's can be just as high and now that he mentioned hes okay with winger, that should help (if we took him, but I doubt it now after Slafkovsky's WCs).

I normally dont attatch myself to risers but around a month or later before the draft, I start to climb onto the idea. I was the same with Hischier post-draft about two weeks after
 
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Devils731

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Jun 23, 2008
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And it's that risk that concerns me.

The risk of him not being able to reach that "upside" and instead be still less of a player than Shane Wright .

Sometimes the "safe pick" is the right pick.


Curious....If he's got such upside, why are the Habs not reported as being all-in on drafting HIM instead of Wright?

I think this is some semantics. Upside isn’t about the best pick, it’s about the player with the highest possible potential.

As a non hockey example:

If I presented a person the opportunity to choose between these 2 opportunities.

Option A

Win $100 - 50%
Win $75 - 30%
Win $50 - 20%

Option B

Win $125 - 30%
Win $70 - 50%
Win $40 - 20%

————-

Option B gives you the chance to win the highest amount of money but option A is actually more likely to give you more money between the 2.

Neither choice is “wrong” but option A is the safer choice to give you value while option B has the highest possible return but the greatest possibility of getting the least.

Option A is Wright while Cooley is Option B.
 

Guttersniped

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Holy shit.
No chance either of those assets would be involved in a deal for 2 years of Nylander.
The comments make it even worse because fans actually think that plausible.


It’s not surprising that “Nylanderthews”, aka “Willyston Riellander”, fantasized a trade that really favors the Leafs.

Nylander has two years left on his deal.
 

Captain3rdLine

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Sep 24, 2020
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It’s not surprising that “Nylanderthews”, aka “Willyston Riellander”, fantasized a trade that really favors the Leafs.

Nylander has two years left on his deal.
It doesn’t just favour them. It’s hilariously bad. Nylander on his own wouldn’t be worth Bratt or 2nd overall on their own. If they said Nylander for 2nd overall I would say no chance the devils would do that straight up.
 

RememberTheName

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And it's that risk that concerns me.

The risk of him not being able to reach that "upside" and instead be still less of a player than Shane Wright .

Sometimes the "safe pick" is the right pick.


Curious....If he's got such upside, why are the Habs not reported as being all-in on drafting HIM instead of Wright?
I personally wouldn't draft Wright over Cooley, so there's that, and I personally can't see why teams would want Wright over Cooley. But, I will say that the gap isn't really huge, and with the upside that Cooley brings, there's also more risk. With Wright, you know what you're getting. You are going to get around a 30-30-60 center who can hold his own defensively and be a great 2nd line center or low end 1st line center. Think Nico Hischier with a better shot and slightly worse playmaking. Although you can be pretty confident you're going to get that kind of player, with the way he has progressed, I don't see him having the offensive skill needed to really be a dominant offensive player. He doesn't have that one thing that, when you watch him, makes you see that he's going to be a dominant offensive player. He's good at everything, great at nothing. This is not bad, as you're going to get an impactful top 6 center, but you're more than likely not going to get the best player in the draft. Some people think his upside his higher than this, but I just don't see anywhere near enough offensive skill to think he could reach a higher level than this.

Cooley is much more raw, and thus has a little bit more risk with him but also a bit more reward. He's got a couple of things he needs to work on: off puck play, bad decision making, overhandling the puck, physicality and being a perimeter player, consistency. If he doesn't break his bad habits, he won't be as good a player as Shane Wright, plain and simple. His game won't adapt to the NHL level as well, and he will probably be a skilled middle 6 center whose solid in transition. If he does, he should have no problem being a more impactful player, at least in my eyes. He has game changing skill with the puck on his stick and does things that shouldn't be possible with the puck. His elite playmaking ability generates ridiculous amounts of high danger scoring chances. He's real solid defensively, arguably moreso than Shane Wright who gets hyped more than he should for being highly inconsistent defensively. He could develop in the mold of a Pavel Datsyuk styled player (style, not level), a potential 70-75 point, 200 foot 1C who could garner a Selke nomination or two for his defensive play while consistently making jaw dropping plays in the offensive zone. That's his ceiling based on the raw tools I have seen.

As you mentioned in your post, sometimes, the safe pick is the right pick. For Montreal, getting a player who is a safe bet to be a Nico Hischier level of player is fantastic for them. Any team would love to get a consistent, 60-65 point high end 2C, low end 1C who can provide solid defense. He's not a game changer, but you know what you're going to get with him, and that's quite valuable to a team. For a team with little going for them like Montreal right now, it might be in their best interest to take a safe bet. But I am not big on safe bets. I want a game changer for my team. I want the best player for my team possible while balancing the risk of them not hitting on their potential. Logan Cooley can be a game changer all over the ice. People bet against players like Logan Cooley every year and every year they come and prove people wrong. Players with as much raw skill as Cooley just seem to always find ways to be highly successful players in the NHL. Guys like Trevor Zegras and Jack Hughes of late come to mind of players who just oozed puck skill and playmaking like Cooley does and then went and dominated. When I watch Cooley, he just has too much skill to not be successful. Sure, Wright is a "safer" bet, and I wouldn't fault Montreal for making the safe bet. I disagree, though, that the safe bet is the right bet.
 

StevenToddIves

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May 18, 2013
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Brooklyn, NY
Are you forgetting about Reilly Walsh or just think he has no shot at the NHL?

FWIW, Scott Wheeler had him listed as our #3 prospect (after Holtz & Hughes) in his latest team prospect pool rankings back in February, noting:



McCarthy was not on his list, which included 25 players.

In my opinion, what the Devils decide to do with Severson plays a role in what they do in the draft. Fitz should be talking contract extension with him and see if they can at least agree in principle to a deal prior to the draft (and hopefully go with Slaf). The key is to be able to limit the amount of teams on a NTC for Severson (even it if means a slightly higher AAV and/or term) so that they can move his contract if needed in the future if/when cap space becomes an issue.

That would leave the Devils largely set at RD going forward, with two top 4 defenders in Hamilton and Severson locked up long-term. Give Walsh every opportunity to earn that 3rd pairing RD spot this upcoming season. I also think there's a good chance that Luke Hughes winds up on the right side, considering that's where he's been playing the past few seasons, which further negates the need for a RD this draft.
Just FYI, I'm probably more familiar with the Devils prospects than Scott Wheeler, and I have McCarthy somewhere around the Devils top 10 prospects and Walsh somewhere around the #20 range. McCarthy to me is the Devils top RD prospect, and I don't think it's really close.

I'm not going to use this space to insult Mr. Wheeler, who I very much respect, but the place we differ most is in our evaluations of defensemen. Wheeler down-ranks all defensemen -- he's said as much -- and tends to overvalue statistical output for D while diminishing defense-first defensemen. This is clear in his perennial low rankings of prospects like Sanderson, Seider and Faber.

I am precisely the opposite. I up-rank defensemen, because I find them to be more important than wingers to a team success. I down-rank offensive defensemen unless they have either elite scoring talent or can take care of their own end defensively. I think a 40-point D who cannot defend is more of a detriment to their team than anything else. Which is to say, while Quinn Hughes is still a great player despite his defensive shortcomings, it's because he's absolutely electrifying with the puck. I think Gostisbehere and Butcher, conversely, hurt a team more than they help. I also up-rank defensively sound D -- which is why I'm always giving high marks to the Sanderson's and Seiders and Fabers.

So, there you have it -- two wildly divergent rankings of Walsh by two evaluators with admittedly completely opposite criteria. I personally think Walsh's upside is a guy you can plug into a line-up 20-25 games per year if your offense is struggling, but if you keep him out there too long he'll be exposed and a liability. Certainly not the #3 prospect on a top 3 Prospect pool in the entire NHL. McCarthy to me will be a rock-solid, physical bottom pairing guy who is pretty decent with the puck.

I can pretty much guarantee you the Devils are back in the lottery next year if Smith and Walsh are both on that blueline. The Devils D-corps already don't hit enough or block shots enough. They're already pinned down low by heavy teams more than we would like. The third pairing should be the winner of a camp battle between Okhotyuk/Bahl/Mukhamadullin at LD with a UFA signing like Lyubushkin or Zadorov at RD. Smith should be a nice trade chip and Walsh should be in the AHL.
 

Captain3rdLine

Registered User
Sep 24, 2020
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8,857
I personally wouldn't draft Wright over Cooley, so there's that, and I personally can't see why teams would want Wright over Cooley. But, I will say that the gap isn't really huge, and with the upside that Cooley brings, there's also more risk. With Wright, you know what you're getting. You are going to get around a 30-30-60 center who can hold his own defensively and be a great 2nd line center or low end 1st line center. Think Nico Hischier with a better shot and slightly worse playmaking. Although you can be pretty confident you're going to get that kind of player, with the way he has progressed, I don't see him having the offensive skill needed to really be a dominant offensive player. He doesn't have that one thing that, when you watch him, makes you see that he's going to be a dominant offensive player. He's good at everything, great at nothing. This is not bad, as you're going to get an impactful top 6 center, but you're more than likely not going to get the best player in the draft. Some people think his upside his higher than this, but I just don't see anywhere near enough offensive skill to think he could reach a higher level than this.

Cooley is much more raw, and thus has a little bit more risk with him but also a bit more reward. He's got a couple of things he needs to work on: off puck play, bad decision making, overhandling the puck, physicality and being a perimeter player, consistency. If he doesn't break his bad habits, he won't be as good a player as Shane Wright, plain and simple. His game won't adapt to the NHL level as well, and he will probably be a skilled middle 6 center whose solid in transition. If he does, he should have no problem being a more impactful player, at least in my eyes. He has game changing skill with the puck on his stick and does things that shouldn't be possible with the puck. His elite playmaking ability generates ridiculous amounts of high danger scoring chances. He's real solid defensively, arguably moreso than Shane Wright who gets hyped more than he should for being highly inconsistent defensively. He could develop in the mold of a Pavel Datsyuk styled player (style, not level), a potential 70-75 point, 200 foot 1C who could garner a Selke nomination or two for his defensive play while consistently making jaw dropping plays in the offensive zone. That's his ceiling based on the raw tools I have seen.

As you mentioned in your post, sometimes, the safe pick is the right pick. For Montreal, getting a player who is a safe bet to be a Nico Hischier level of player is fantastic for them. Any team would love to get a consistent, 60-65 point high end 2C, low end 1C who can provide solid defense. He's not a game changer, but you know what you're going to get with him, and that's quite valuable to a team. For a team with little going for them like Montreal right now, it might be in their best interest to take a safe bet. But I am not big on safe bets. I want a game changer for my team. I want the best player for my team possible while balancing the risk of them not hitting on their potential. Logan Cooley can be a game changer all over the ice. People bet against players like Logan Cooley every year and every year they come and prove people wrong. Players with as much raw skill as Cooley just seem to always find ways to be highly successful players in the NHL. Guys like Trevor Zegras and Jack Hughes of late come to mind of players who just oozed puck skill and playmaking like Cooley does and then went and dominated. When I watch Cooley, he just has too much skill to not be successful. Sure, Wright is a "safer" bet, and I wouldn't fault Montreal for making the safe bet. I disagree, though, that the safe bet is the right bet.
You’re massively underrating Wright’s potential IMO. He definitely has ppg+ potential. I disagree with calling him Hischier with a better shot and worst Playmaking. His shot is better but his overall IQ and Playmaking is better than Hischier’s as well. I think he’s a better prospect than Hischier was and I love Hischier. His Playmaking and IQ is great. I’m wondering how much you’ve actually watched Wright. Even in his disappointing playoffs he was consistently creating chances with his Playmaking. He knows what he wants to do with the puck very quickly and he’s great at making quick slip passes or chipping it to other players. Wright has legitimate Bergeron potential. Now would I expect him to be that good? No but that’s his ceiling and his ceiling shouldn’t be underrated. His IQ as well as his extremely well rounded skillset could make him a very dominant player. The only thing Cooley has on him is speed.

His Playmaking is better than Cooley’s IMO as is his defensive game. People think it’s poor or inconsistent because he doesn’t fly around chasing players but he’s always in the right place at the right time and he’s great at supporting the puck.

I’m also not sure when Cooley became a player with elite pucks skills. His pucks skills are good but not great and not better than Wrights or the best in the draft.
 
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