Prospect Info: Devils Win #2 Overall -- Slafkovsky vs. Jiricek vs. Nemec

[Captain3rdLine]

I will say that I absolutely loathe the amount of average to sub-average skating we've drafted the past 4 seasons. With Rossi on the board, I'm still not sure how much I like the Holtz pick, despite his shot.

In general, skating + IQ/hockey nerd-dom is a pretty damn easy filter and I'm not sure why we manage to trip up something so basic. It would be one thing if it felt like the team was looking for Pavelski/Benn-types who move well without the wheels. Not sure if that's the case.

I'm on my second screwdriver this Sunday but seriously, f*** "tools"-y drafting.

Sorry but Rossi is not a great skater. Not bad and better than Holtz but he isn’t very fast at all. Has good edges but not much speed. I’m personally not that high on him.

 

[Oneiro]

Sorry but Rossi is not a great skater. Not bad and better than Holtz but he isn’t very fast at all. Has good edges but not much speed. I’m personally not that high on him.

I think he's smarter than Holtz, but agreed, his wheels aren't anything special. I should've organized my thoughts better bringing him up.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I think he's smarter than Holtz, but agreed, his wheels aren't anything special. I should've organized my thoughts better bringing him up.

Ya I liked Holtz more for the Devils at the draft but I might take Rossi over him now. He’s a very smart player and has good edges. He’ll likely be a decent NHL player but I don’t personally see him as a can’t miss prospect who’s gonna be a first line player or anything like some people seemed to think when he was being drafted.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Because evaluating is about a lot more than just how he produces at lower levels. The standard shouldn’t just be about production. I’d feel a lot better about him if he put up 10 less goals but his skating was good. It’s all about how their game will translate and I think his game will struggle to translate to the NHL level. He’ll struggle to be able to keep up with our fast, skilled playmakers.

No one is saying he has to be a very good skater. And he is absolutely no where near average. His straight line speed sure. His edgework isn’t close to average. Also not sure who said 20 year olds can’t improve their skating.

Have you watched Tampa Bay play any hockey this year? Take a look at the way half of that roster skates. They are included in the pool of players that determines “average”. His skating isn’t noticeably bad, it’s just not a strength.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Have you watched Tampa Bay play any hockey this year? Take a look at the way half of that roster skates. They are included in the pool of players that determines “average”. His skating isn’t noticeably bad, it’s just not a strength.

No it’s absolutely noticeably bad. In a straight line maybe not but his edgework and turning is terrible. His skating is well below average.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

No it’s absolutely noticeably bad. In a straight line maybe not but his edgework and turning is terrible. His skating is well below average.

You can have your opinion. It isn’t a very big deal and my concern is close to zero.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

You can have your opinion. It isn’t a very big deal and my concern is close to zero.

Okay agree to disagree.

 

[Bcap88]

Idk why holtz is a hot trade commodity. We finally draft and have someone who has proven they can shoot the puck and now we want to get rid of him lol

 

[Guttersniped]

You do not have to be a very good skater to score goals in the NHL, especially given the quality of center he will play with. There is no rule that 20 year olds cannot improve their skating and he really doesn’t need to improve much to be average. It’s hyperbole to act like he’s some slug.

I’m still amazed at the general sentiment of this player after a very successful AHL season. By the standard this board has set, he would be considered a bust already if he didn’t have the great season he put together.

Also he’s a winger that needs a center. Utica had a huge center problem all season, we’ve got a number of winger prospects but were much lighter on centers.

Chase de Leo was about it and he didn’t play center in San Diego before we signed him as our tweener.

We turned to Frederik Gauthier of all players to set up guys there. He has 24 assists in 51 games. (That beat his last highest total 12 assists in 56 games in 2015-16.)

 

[Fanatik]

Smith has good edgework. He just isn’t quick or powerful enough but that really didn’t show at lower levels.

The interesting thing with Holtz from my view is that I think he was a better skater earlier on. If I watch video of his skating earlier on even before his draft year his skating looked much better to me. Now it looks really stiff and awkward.
Almost like he’s been beefing up and trying to put on muscle to the point where he’s not moving as fluidly and loosely.


His shot isn’t nearly as good as people are making it out to be. If he has lots of space and the puck in a perfect spot it’s very good but that rarely happens. He isn’t good enough at adjusting nor is his release anything special.

I’m also not saying Holtz won’t figure it out. But concerns with Siegenthaler weren’t about his physical aspects or skating. He just didn’t look comfortable and like he could mentally keep up.

I personally think his shot is as good as advertised and is easily the hardest, heaviest, and carries the best of all in the organization. Figuring out how to adjust and get it off is less about the shot and more about hockey prowess or spacing.

Im confident he will adjust and is smart enough to figure out how to get it off, a shooter coming from Europe may have one of the biggest adjustments to make on a NA sheet of ice compared to most playing styles.

 

[youryeah]

what does any of this have to do with the #2 overall discussion ? how did we get here

 

[My3Sons]

what does any of this have to do with the #2 overall discussion ? how did we get here

 

[Devs3cups]

Great song!

 

[Triumph]

It’s almost like that’s not what I said. I think you should read the posts that you’re responding to.
I’ll explain how.
He’s a smart offensive player with good skill and a good shot who played on a very good AHL team.
It’s not that he doesn’t have some strong skills. It’s that he has some other parts of his game that could hold him back.
As I’ve said countless times he could quite possibly turn out and figure things out at the NHL level but his poor skating is something that will make it much harder and that weakens his outlook as a prospect for me.

You have to look past the numbers man.

'Good skill', 'good shot' - this means nothing. This isn't even scoutspeak or jargon, it's just totally empty words. Oh okay, a good shot. He clearly has an exceptional shot - one of the best in the AHL, and I thought one of the best on the NHL roster when he was here. He just was not able to use it in the NHL because of the limitations of his skating and his anticipation. No, his shot isn't Ovechkin's, it's not 90th percentile in the NHL (yet) but it's really damn good, and it has room to improve. Again, this is a player who has limited skating ability and who is weak along the boards who managed 3+ shots a game, it's very hard to do that if that player doesn't have a terrific release.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I think he's smarter than Holtz, but agreed, his wheels aren't anything special. I should've organized my thoughts better bringing him up.

Rossi's calling cards are IQ, compete level, two-way play and playmaking ability. His IQ is a country mile over Holtz. But his skating is what I'd call "good enough". It plays up because he's so good at anticipating and plays with such remarkable effort.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Enough with the "trade Holtz" nonsense, folks. If he can even make the roster as a solid 4th liner next year, he's still going to be a huge weapon for the 1PP. We don't need Holtz to drive a line -- we have Hughes, Bratt and Hischier who can do that with Mercer developing into possibly another line-driver. We need Holtz to be a finisher, that's pretty much it.

 

[mdj12784]

No, no, don't speak, I know what you're thinkin'
And I don't need your reasons
Don't tell me 'cause it HOLTZ…

 

[Ripshot 43]

No, no, don't speak, I know what you're thinkin'
And I don't need your reasons
Don't tell me 'cause it HOLTZ…

Bzzzzzzz…

But you get a few points for making me think about Gwen Stefani

 

[RememberTheName]

Being a good shooter ≠ being a good goal scorer. They are two completely different things. You need so much more than your shot to be a good goal scorer at the next level: IQ, anticipation, puck skills, skating. Holtz has not shown the requisite skills that are needed to become a good goal scorer at the next level. There's a reason that not all players with good shots become good NHL players. Let's think of other players who were more or less ranked highly because of their perceived elite shot, from 2016 on: Kieffer Bellows, Owen Tippett, Oliver Wahlstrom, Cole Caufield, Alex Holtz, Chaz Lucius. The only anomaly from this list is Cole Caufield because his entire offensive package was 10x better than anyone else on this list. There's no doubt that Alex Holtz is the best player of all the others, but let's be real: this is not a good list of players to be keeping him company of the best shooters in each draft to be drafted highly, and there absolutely is reason to be concern over Holtz's game translating. It happens almost every year with the best shooter's game not translating because the rest of their game is not good enough. Holtz is slightly better than all of these other players, but history repeats itself.

Oh, and I forgot about Patrick Laine. He falls into the Caufield category, where the rest of his game was so much better than all of these other players that he's able to be successful.

Also, why is this Holtz debate going on in the 2nd overall thread?

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Being a good shooter ≠ being a good goal scorer. They are two completely different things. You need so much more than your shot to be a good goal scorer at the next level: IQ, anticipation, puck skills, skating. Holtz has not shown the requisite skills that are needed to become a good goal scorer at the next level. There's a reason that not all players with good shots become good NHL players. Let's think of other players who were more or less ranked highly because of their perceived elite shot, from 2016 on: Kieffer Bellows, Owen Tippett, Oliver Wahlstrom, Cole Caufield, Alex Holtz, Chaz Lucius. The only anomaly from this list is Cole Caufield because his entire offensive package was 10x better than anyone else on this list. There's no doubt that Alex Holtz is the best player of all the others, but let's be real: this is not a good list of players to be keeping him company of the best shooters in each draft to be drafted highly, and there absolutely is reason to be concern over Holtz's game translating. It happens almost every year with the best shooter's game not translating because the rest of their game is not good enough. Holtz is slightly better than all of these other players, but history repeats itself.

Oh, and I forgot about Patrick Laine. He falls into the Caufield category, where the rest of his game was so much better than all of these other players that he's able to be successful.

Also, why is this Holtz debate going on in the 2nd overall thread?

This.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Granted, I only watched th AHL playoffs and am no prospect sleuth, but Holtz' skating definitely concerned me.

I'm trying to chalk it up to the comically bad ice those rinks had for a few games.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Holtz skating is absolutely fine. Nothing great, but it’s more than fine. I have no idea where this narrative came from, but it couldn’t be more wrong.

His IQ and compete level off the puck are what holds him back and make his game look slow.

 

[njdevils1982]

beat me to it!

 

[RememberTheName]

I've been pretty lazy on the scouting end this year because the Devils being shit again kind of turned me off from hockey for a little bit when I had more important things (college) to deal with. Starting to get back into it though, and I think I have 3 wants for pick #2, and as such, they are all my top 3 ranked players for this year. In order, Juraj Slafkovsky, David Jiricek, and Danila Yurov are the guys I want. They are all in the same tier of player and taking any one of them would be absolutely golden for this franchise. If you couldn't tell by my slightly higher than consensus ranking, Yurov is far and away my favorite prospect this year. I will defend him until the end.

 

[Guttersniped]

Being a good shooter ≠ being a good goal scorer. They are two completely different things. You need so much more than your shot to be a good goal scorer at the next level: IQ, anticipation, puck skills, skating. Holtz has not shown the requisite skills that are needed to become a good goal scorer at the next level. There's a reason that not all players with good shots become good NHL players. Let's think of other players who were more or less ranked highly because of their perceived elite shot, from 2016 on: Kieffer Bellows, Owen Tippett, Oliver Wahlstrom, Cole Caufield, Alex Holtz, Chaz Lucius. The only anomaly from this list is Cole Caufield because his entire offensive package was 10x better than anyone else on this list. There's no doubt that Alex Holtz is the best player of all the others, but let's be real: this is not a good list of players to be keeping him company of the best shooters in each draft to be drafted highly, and there absolutely is reason to be concern over Holtz's game translating. It happens almost every year with the best shooter's game not translating because the rest of their game is not good enough. Holtz is slightly better than all of these other players, but history repeats itself.

Oh, and I forgot about Patrick Laine. He falls into the Caufield category, where the rest of his game was so much better than all of these other players that he's able to be successful.

Also, why is this Holtz debate going on in the 2nd overall thread?

And Cole Sillinger, you forgot to add him to you’re random list of snipers.