Devils Team Discussion (team/player news and notes) ‎2015 offseason V

[217 Forever]

Agreed. Larsson will be a serviceable #1 for a while, his ceiling is a fair amount lower than Hedman though.

I can't say every team without doing the analysis, but Larsson wouldn't be the #1 defenseman on most teams.

 

[devilsblood]

In my opinion, you do anything you can to get Leon Draisaitl. When's the last time the Devils had a marquee up-and-coming prospect forward? Let's say Hanifin falls to # 6. Would you trade Hanifin to Edmonton for Draisaitl? The # 6 pick this year for the # 3 pick last year? I say a resounding YES!

Dream scenario right there.

I figure we'd have to add on though, and I would. Hanifin + our 2nd rnd pick for Draisaitl?

 

[aboriginal]

If Larsson turns into another Hedman, I would be very, very happy. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll reach that level.

Oh I dunno what he'll turn into, but i mean value wise. He should be built around and given every chance to succeed now that he's a free bird.


....and yes, it was a hobbit reference

 

[Fear the Wushu]

I can't say every team without doing the analysis, but Larsson wouldn't be the #1 defenseman on most teams.

I think he proved he could be a good #1 this season with the tough minutes he played and how well he fared. I don't think he will ever be an elite #1 but eventually if he stays a Devil, he will be our #1. That is unless Santini is really something special.

 

[217 Forever]

I think he proved he could be a good #1 this season with the tough minutes he played and how well he fared. I don't think he will ever be an elite #1 but eventually if he stays a Devil, he will be our #1. That is unless Santini is really something special.

If you mean top pair then maybe...Greene was our #1 guy and Lars is more suited to that role I think

 

[JimEIV]

So what do we do in this instance? Stand pat, let guys who might be able to play in this league stay in Abany while we bring in stop gaps at fwd?

If trading Gelinas as noted above, also allows a guy like Hrabenka to step in, then we just killed 2 birds.

Yes stand pat...If it were up to me I would do almost nothing this season, certainly in the first half anyway.

Trading raw and untapped talent is losing proposition. Players in Albany will get chances..There are always injuries...There are always "maintenance days" and there are always call ups for just a short look...

There really is no defensive depth on this team...We have 4 good defensemen ready to go and a whole bunch of unknowns. Those unknowns are not capable of playing regular 15+ minutes over a course of a season...And as of right at this moment we haven't seen that from Gelinas either.

"Grigorenko for Gelinas +"

plus what? #36 or #41 overall? You literally can be giving up the two best assets in the deal.

Gelinas (.393 ppg - 48 in 122 ) for all his faults has produced points at the same exact level as Grigorenko (.396 ppg - 52 in 131) think about that for a moment...Sure there is a 3 year age difference and sure there is are other factors like team strength, teammates and usage...But you are talking about a Dman that has had limited minutes producing excellent numbers with the time he's had.

Gelinas puts up 45/50 points next season and you're 2nd round pick is producing very nicely in junior... and that trade starts looking disgustingly bad very quickly.

Trade Gelinas after a 45/50 point season and all the "+++" are coming our way. And if it those big points never happen, I'd bet his trade value isn't that far off from what it is right now.

 

[Fear the Wushu]

If you mean top pair then maybe...Greene was our #1 guy and Lars is more suited to that role I think

I know that, I'm saying Andy Greene is not getting any younger. If Larsson remains a Devil, he will be our #1.

 

[Davegarri]

I'm all in favor of taking on Richards with some salary retained if it means getting the #13 pick and someone like Jordan Weal or Nick Shore. If they were that desperate to move Richards they'd add that. I'm not sure what we'd have to part with for that package, but it'd be a good haul and could be the beginning of this franchise turning around. Maybe Gelly or JJ and add a third?

Weal had 69 points (20 goals, 49 assists) in 73 games for Manchester
Shore had 41 points (20 goals, 22 assists) in 38 games for Manchester.

Weal/Shore>>Gelly/JJ
13th pick+richards' contract>3rd round pick

Is that too unrealistic?

 

[devilsblood]

So Gelinas is someone we can not depend on, yet we can not trade him?

 

[Burner Account]

So Gelinas is someone we can not depend on, yet we can not trade him?

Think you completely misunderstood his point.

Let Gelinas play here and see if his trade value increases.

 

[JimEIV]

So Gelinas is someone we can not depend on, yet we can not trade him?

Precisely!!!!!!!!!!

You want to sell low and that makes no sense.

 

[DeVols]

Yes stand pat...If it were up to me I would almost nothing this season, certainly in the first half anyway.

Trading raw and untapped talent is losing proposition. Players in Albany will get chances..There are always injuries...There are always "maintenance days" and there are always call ups for just a short look...

There really is no defensive depth on this team...We have 4 good defensemen ready to go and a whole bunch of unknowns. Those unknowns are not capable of playing regular 15+ minutes over a course of a season...And as of right at this moment we haven't seen that from Gelinas either.

"Grigorenko for Gelinas +"

plus what? #31 or #41 overall? You literally can be giving up the two best assets in the deal.

Gelinas (.393 ppg - 48 in 122 ) for all his faults has produced points at the same exact level as Grigorenko (.396 ppg - 52 in 131) think about that for a moment...Sure there is a 3 year age difference and sure there is are other factors like team strength, teammates and usage...But you are talking about a Dman that has had limited minutes producing excellent numbers with the time he's had.

Gelinas puts up 45/50 points next season and you're 2nd round pick is producing very nicely in junior... and that trade starts looking disgustingly bad very quickly.

Trade Gelinas after a 45/50 point season and all the "+++" are coming our way. And if it those big points never happen, I'd bet his trade value isn't that far off from what it is right now.

I don't think that is true at all. I would easily trade one of our seconds for Mikhail Grigorenko. Obviously, Buffalo wouldn't touch that.

 

[devilsblood]

I'm all in favor of taking on Richards with some salary retained if it means getting the #13 pick and someone like Jordan Weal or Nick Shore. If they were that desperate to move Richards they'd add that. I'm not sure what we'd have to part with for that package, but it'd be a good haul and could be the beginning of this franchise turning around. Maybe Gelly or JJ and add a third?

Weal had 69 points (20 goals, 49 assists) in 73 games for Manchester
Shore had 41 points (20 goals, 22 assists) in 38 games for Manchester.

Weal/Shore>>Gelly/JJ
13th pick+richards' contract>3rd round pick

Is that too unrealistic?

It's so abstract, it's hard to judge value on a deal like this.

Someone said Richards still has 6 years left? That is a lot. When we are trying to break in young players over the next bunch of years that guy is going to be clogging the ice and strapping the cap.

On the other hand #13th pick in a stacked draft for a team desperate for young talented fwds?

 

[devilsblood]

Precisely!!!!!!!!!!

You want to sell low and that makes no sense.

How is Grigorenko selling low?

 

[JimEIV]

I don't think that is true at all. I would easily trade one of our seconds for Mikhail Grigorenko. Obviously, Buffalo wouldn't touch that.

I don't understand? What isn't true at all? That Gelinas and the #36 overall can BOTH be better than Grigorenko?

 

[theoptimist]

I guess I'm being overly optimistic, but depending upon who we pick at #6 (Zacha, Rantanen, Crouse, Provorov, or Hanifin) I could see the player getting an extended look at training camp.

I am a firm believer that Rantanen, Crouse, and perhaps Zacha could start the season on the roster depending upon their training camp.

 

[JimEIV]

How is Grigorenko selling low?

Is a 50 point forward worth a 50 point defenseman? Not in my book.

That is what Gelinas could be, we don't know yet...

Lets say he is a 50 point dman...Lets say that 2nd round picks turns out to be a decent top 6 player. - How does that trade look at that point? Those things aren't impossible, they aren't out of reach and they can be reality as soon as 2016-17.

 

[devilsblood]

Think you completely misunderstood his point.

Let Gelinas play here and see if his trade value increases.

No, Jim is trying to work a couple points. One being that we lack depth on D. (Yet he admits a guy like Hrabenka, who had as many points in 14 less games as Matteau did last year in Albany, can not find minutes at the NHL level. More goals and twice as many points as Black in the same # of games.)


There is also this, as he states, trading young players is a losing proposition. Well what if you are getting young players back? What if the young players coming back have more potential? Yes trading young guys for young guys is risky, but it could also play out in our favor in a big way. Especially when the guy coming back in the deal is a big bodied 21 year old center, recent #12 pick, who put up 36 pts in 43 AHL games last year.

 

[217 Forever]

No, Jim is trying to work a couple points. One being that we lack depth on D. (Yet he admits a guy like Hrabenka, who had as many points in 14 less games as Matteau did last year in Albany, can not find minutes at the NHL level. More goals and twice as many points as Black in the same # of games.)


There is also this, as he states, trading young players is a losing proposition. Well what if you are getting young players back? What if the young players coming back have more potential? Yes trading young guys for young guys is risky, but it could also play out in our favor in a big way. Especially when the guy coming back in the deal is a big bodied 21 year old center, recent #12 pick, who put up 36 pts in 43 AHL games last year.

I agree. You can't be afraid like that. If you're confident in your scouting abilities then you make a deal if you think it will improve the team.

 

[DeVols]

I don't understand? What isn't true at all? That Gelinas and the #36 overall can BOTH be better than Grigorenko?

You said that we were giving up the two best assets in the deal. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, meant that you were inferring that our 2nd round pick > Grigorenko. Which, I don't believe to be true.

 

[devilsblood]

Is a 50 point forward worth a 50 point defenseman? Not in my book.

That is what Gelinas could be, we don't know yet...

Lets say he is a 50 point dman...Lets say that 2nd round picks turns out to be a decent top 6 player. - How does that trade look at that point? Those things aren't impossible, they aren't out of reach and they can be reality as soon as 2016-17.

Let's say Gelinas never really get's the defensive side of his game together and is basically a one dimensional 35 pt d-man. Let's say the #2 pick, like most #2 pick's, doesn't turn into anything of note.

 

[Devils Dominion]

I guess I'm being overly optimistic, but depending upon who we pick at #6 (Zacha, Rantanen, Crouse, Provorov, or Hanifin) I could see the player getting an extended look at training camp.

I am a firm believer that Rantanen, Crouse, and perhaps Zacha could start the season on the roster depending upon their training camp.

No need to rush our 1st round pick, no matter who it ends up being.

I'd prefer he plays another year in his current league.

 

[JimEIV]

No, Jim is trying to work a couple points. One being that we lack depth on D. (Yet he admits a guy like Hrabenka, who had as many points in 14 less games as Matteau did last year in Albany, can not find minutes at the NHL level. More goals and twice as many points as Black in the same # of games.)

Oh goodness gracious...Dman minor league points?

I don't even know where to being with that. But it is amazingly ridiculous.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Think you completely misunderstood his point.

Let Gelinas play here and see if his trade value increases.

Bingo

Or better yet, play himself into our core here.

I'd like to see Gelly paired up with a steady veteran defenseman for a good stretch.

 

[devilsblood]

Oh goodness gracious...Dman minor league points?

I don't even know where to being with that. But it is amazingly ridiculous.

So d-men putting up points in Albany mean nothing. Yet fwd's not putting up points on that very team means what?