Devils Team Discussion (team/player news and notes) ‎2015 offseason V

[Missionhockey]

I guess I'm being overly optimistic, but depending upon who we pick at #6 (Zacha, Rantanen, Crouse, Provorov, or Hanifin) I could see the player getting an extended look at training camp.

I am a firm believer that Rantanen, Crouse, and perhaps Zacha could start the season on the roster depending upon their training camp.

I don't think Crouse is on the roster at the beginning of the year, even if he might be capable. Crouse is a LW, that might be the only forward position that we have depth in. At LW you have potentially Elias, Henrique, Cammallerri, Matteau and Boucher. If Crouse is the pick, there's no point in rushing him.

I would hope that if it's Zacha, they send him back to junior regardless, but I would think he has a better shot to make the team since the team is really think on RW and I think that he plays that position. However, he needs to continue to acclimate to North American hockey and the NHL is not that place if you're still learning how to play the game.

 

[devilsblood]

Bingo

Or better yet, play himself into our core here.

I'd like to see Gelly paired up with a steady veteran defenseman for a good stretch.

Have you guys not looked at our fwd prospect pool?

 

[JimEIV]

So d-men putting up points in Albany mean nothing. Yet fwd's not putting up points on that very team means what?

Its just such an incomplete picture specifically for a Dman

 

[DeVols]

I guess I'm being overly optimistic, but depending upon who we pick at #6 (Zacha, Rantanen, Crouse, Provorov, or Hanifin) I could see the player getting an extended look at training camp.

I am a firm believer that Rantanen, Crouse, and perhaps Zacha could start the season on the roster depending upon their training camp.

I'd certainly add Barzal to that list. Whoever we get, I really hope we do not rush them. I'd rather send them back to junior (or their respective league/AHL), unless they have an extremely impressive camp, as I don't think any of the forwards we likely draft are NHL-ready.

 

[devilsblood]

Is a 50 point forward worth a 50 point defenseman? Not in my book.

That is what Gelinas could be, we don't know yet...

Lets say he is a 50 point dman...Lets say that 2nd round picks turns out to be a decent top 6 player. - How does that trade look at that point? Those things aren't impossible, they aren't out of reach and they can be reality as soon as 2016-17.

Its just such an incomplete picture specifically for a Dman

I could have said the same to the above, but went in a different route.

 

[Davegarri]

Wait... why don't we just move Gelly to LW??

 

[GeNeXt]

I don't know if it's just me, but I feel Larsson could become a player similar to Brent Seabrook. I'd be beyond happy with that.

 

[JimEIV]

I could have said the same to the above, but went in a different route.

It's not really the same at all ....With Gelinas we are talking about a very specific elite level talent in his shot. And that is the sole reason he is even in a conversation or he would've fallen by the wayside already.

I'm not dismissing Hrabarenka, but he doesn't bring the tools that Gelinas does. I think everyone would agree on that. At the very best you are looking at an even more raw Dman in Hrabarenka than Gelinas. You can't keep going backward replacing undeveloped players with even more greener players in the hopes future returns...We've invested this time and development in Gelinas and trading him before we know if that will bear fruit is not good management...and Hrabarenka is probably 2 to 3 years behind where Gelinas is now.


If you are excited by his points why aren't you by Burlon who was top 20 in Dman scoring in the AHL last season?

 

[mike30]

according to the sun times, top 5 team that could land Kessel are the Devils, Fishsticks, Preds, Cats, and Yotes. not sure if this is legit but its from devils memes on fb..

 

[MichaelJ]

Yes stand pat...If it were up to me I would do almost nothing this season, certainly in the first half anyway.

Trading raw and untapped talent is losing proposition. Players in Albany will get chances..There are always injuries...There are always "maintenance days" and there are always call ups for just a short look...

There really is no defensive depth on this team...We have 4 good defensemen ready to go and a whole bunch of unknowns. Those unknowns are not capable of playing regular 15+ minutes over a course of a season...And as of right at this moment we haven't seen that from Gelinas either.

"Grigorenko for Gelinas +"

plus what? #36 or #41 overall? You literally can be giving up the two best assets in the deal.

Gelinas (.393 ppg - 48 in 122 ) for all his faults has produced points at the same exact level as Grigorenko (.396 ppg - 52 in 131) think about that for a moment...Sure there is a 3 year age difference and sure there is are other factors like team strength, teammates and usage...But you are talking about a Dman that has had limited minutes producing excellent numbers with the time he's had.

Gelinas puts up 45/50 points next season and you're 2nd round pick is producing very nicely in junior... and that trade starts looking disgustingly bad very quickly.

Trade Gelinas after a 45/50 point season and all the "+++" are coming our way. And if it those big points never happen, I'd bet his trade value isn't that far off from what it is right now.

You can't just waive your hand and dismiss the age difference as if it's nothing...not to mention that Grigs scored nearly a goal per game in juniors before he was rushed to the NHL. He's got the skillset to be a top center. Gelinas might top out at a mid pairing defenseman. The upside in a top6 forward (which we have basically none of) is worth it.

 

[devilsblood]

It's not really the same at all ....With Gelinas we are talking about a very specific elite level talent in his shot. And that is the sole reason he is even in a conversation or he would've fallen by the wayside already.

I'm not dismissing Hrabarenka, but he doesn't bring the tools that Gelinas does. I think everyone would agree on that. At the very best you are looking at an even more raw Dman in Hrabarenka than Gelinas. You can't keep going backward replacing undeveloped players with even more greener players in the hopes future returns...We've invested this time and development in Gelinas and trading him before we know if that will bear fruit is not good management...and Hrabarenka is probably 2 to 3 years behind where Gelinas is now.


If you are excited by his points why aren't you by Burlon who was top 20 in Dman scoring in the AHL last season?

I think Burlon's season was pretty encouraging. But there is no room for him(on going theme here). Not to mention Hrabarenka had more goals in 20 less games and a near even ppg at a younger age.

And I don't know if Hrabarenka is greener or more raw then Gelinas. Gelinas does have exciting offensive skills, but he also still shows some serious warts. I'd actually assume Hrabarenka would play a safer more all around game, but doubt he brings the high end offensive tools.

People rationalizing keeping all these d-men while looking at the total dearth of good young fwd's is hard to understand.

 

[Devils Dominion]

You can't just waive your hand and dismiss the age difference as if it's nothing...not to mention that Grigs scored nearly a goal per game in juniors before he was rushed to the NHL. He's got the skillset to be a top center. Gelinas might top out at a mid pairing defenseman. The upside in a top6 forward (which we have basically none of) is worth it.

Lesson be learned not to rush our 1st round pick to the bigs this Fall.

 

[devilsblood]

Lesson be learned not to rush our 1st round pick to the bigs this Fall.

concur.

Late season cup of tea? Maybe.

 

[MichaelJ]

Lesson be learned not to rush our 1st round pick to the bigs this Fall.

Zacha should be given the chance to make the team out of camp, but obviously the staff would have to think he's ready. Likely give him a full year at Sarnia, then he can get a real shot in 2016.

 

[MichaelJ]

according to the sun times, top 5 team that could land Kessel are the Devils, Fishsticks, Preds, Cats, and Yotes. not sure if this is legit but its from devils memes on fb..

Do not want.

 

[aboriginal]

according to the sun times, top 5 team that could land Kessel are the Devils, Fishsticks, Preds, Cats, and Yotes. not sure if this is legit but its from devils memes on fb..

I'd only want kessel if he comes cheap. Which he won't. So **** him.

 

[theoptimist]

I'd only want kessel if he comes cheap. Which he won't. So **** him.

I agree. He would be welcomed on this team, regardless of the intangibles people claim he doesn't bring.

 

[NJDevs26]

Is a 50 point forward worth a 50 point defenseman? Not in my book.

That is what Gelinas could be, we don't know yet...

Lets say he is a 50 point dman...Lets say that 2nd round picks turns out to be a decent top 6 player. - How does that trade look at that point? Those things aren't impossible, they aren't out of reach and they can be reality as soon as 2016-17.

That assumes Grigorenko's ceiling as being a 50-point forward which I don't believe to be true. Which would change the argument completely if you were talking about say, a 65-70 point forward and a 45-point defenseman.

The problem with these debates is either people assume our younger players are automatically better than someone else's younger players or conversely assume the grass is automatically greener on the other side. Like with the Larsson-Drasati trade mentioned earlier...that would be horrendous value for Larsson atm

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I agree. He would be welcomed on this team, regardless of the intangibles people claim he doesn't bring.

Kessel plays like and acts like a loser.

When his legs diminish, he'll be the next Heatley. Or Vanek. Except signed at $8M AAV for a handful or more years.

Keep him the **** away from my team.

 

[Devils Dominion]

I 100% don't want Kessel.

 

[Captain Lou]

The market for Kessel is not going to be very strong. I'm sure TO will not be retaining salary as dumping his salary is the primary reason he will get dealt. That will limit where he can go by virtue of cap space (which is flatlining) and the financial ability to pay of the team acquiring him. Cross Arizona off that list right off the top, there's no way they trade for him now, and does anyone really think Maloney will give TO #3 for him?? Exactly...why would we do that with our pick? That further lowers his trade value.

What I'm noticing is that people are so in love with draft picks and prospects that a good number of people are willing to have a rotting corpse of a hockey player eat up $6M of space just to acquire another 1st round pick, whereas, no one will touch Kessel who only costs $1.8M more, even if we don't give #6.

Absolutely baffling to me.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Kessel plays like and acts like a loser.

When his legs diminish, he'll be the next Heatley. Or Vanek. Except signed at $8M AAV for a handful or more years.

Keep him the **** away from my team.

He's already on the decline.
Minus-34 last season where he sulked and loafed for most of the season.

 

[theoptimist]

The market for Kessel is not going to be very strong. I'm sure TO will not be retaining salary as dumping his salary is the primary reason he will get dealt. That will limit where he can go by virtue of cap space (which is flatlining) and the financial ability to pay of the team acquiring him. Cross Arizona off that list right off the top, there's no way they trade for him now, and does anyone really think Maloney will give TO #3 for him?? Exactly...why would we do that with our pick? That further lowers his trade value.

What I'm noticing is that people are so in love with draft picks and prospects that a good number of people are willing to have a rotting corpse of a hockey player eat up $6M of space just to acquire another 1st round pick, whereas, no one will touch Kessel who only costs $1.8M more, even if we don't give #6.

Absolutely baffling to me.

Well I am not looking to part with the #6.

At best, I would trade Merrill+

 

[Brooklyndevil]

according to the sun times, top 5 team that could land Kessel are the Devils, Fishsticks, Preds, Cats, and Yotes. not sure if this is legit but its from devils memes on fb..

Is that the Toronto Sun Times? I never saw a whole city in on trying to get rid of a player who makes $8.5 mil per and is a superstar at least when he's mentioned in trades.

They are praying to unload him on anyone and everyone. Good luck with that.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

He's already on the decline.
Minus-34 last season where he sulked and loafed for most of the season.

He's just a sorry excuse for a hockey player. And an expensive one, at that.

Leafs fans twitch whenever I bring up the Heatley comparison, but it's so true.