Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - season begins!

[dzubrus8]

Definitely a weird journey for Strome.

Drafted by Arizona in 2015 when Don Maloney was the GM. Maloney is canned less than a year later and replaced by John Chayka. Strome never seemed like a Chayka guy / he really coveted Nick Schmaltz; Strome is traded around Thanksgiving 2018 before playing a full season with the Coyotes.

Then Chicago goes through the Kyle Beech scandal and Stan Bowman resigns in 2021. New management group comes in and they basically decide to go scorched Earth. Strome had been in the dog house before getting some traction with DeBrincat-Kane in 2021-22. But I think there was some healthy skepticism about whether Strome was just a passenger on that line. They decided to trade DeBrincat at the 2022 Draft and Kane was going into the last year of his contract. They tried to trade Strome but nobody was biting; Strome had to wait until Day 2 of free agency that year to land a contract, so he probably wasn't Plan A for a lot of clubs.

Always love reading your posts you have a great recollection of hockey history. That context makes more sense

Obviously would love to get a Dylan Strome for free but seems exceedingly rare based on your story

 

[My3Sons]

No way we go with a D corps that young. Luke would be 23, Silayev 20, Casey 22, and Nemec 22.

The reasons I see them moving on from Nemec and / or Casey are:
- age
- size
- cost efficiency

Age: Nemec and Casey are super young on a team that wants to win now. You've already got Luke making his young kid mistakes. Can you afford more? Maybe you could integrate one more into a bottom pair role, but not both.

Size: Nemec and Casey are the smallest guys of the group, and neither play a particularly physical style. As we see right now, Fitz / Keefe are actually preferring to have everyone with size / physicality vs working Nemec or Casey in. (You can say Luke isn't that physical - but then do you think Fitz / Keefe want a second guy like that?)

Cost: Guys who are drafted #2OA (Nemec) or who put up points (Casey) tend to get paid. But, the Devils don't really need the pedigree or the points. Meanwhile, every year there are available defensive D who can thrive when given a clear role in a structured system - and they make relative peanuts. See Kovacevic this year. Obviously, you're not likely to get a top 4 guy dumpster diving, but solving for 3RD is realistic. And then go find another guy like Pesce - again not flashy, but big, steady, and not breaking the bank.

These are the reasons why I thought they moved Bahl too early. He actually fit into what Fitz is trying to build. I think the Devils go looking for his equivalent on the right side.

If Bahl was more consistently physical and dropped the gloves I think he's still a Devil.

 

[NJDfan86]

With respect to trading Nemec - who are the trading partners? Who is giving up a young C or RW on an ELC that makes dealing from a position of strength the play at this point? I totally understand the thought process but who other than Anaheim and San Jose have forwards like that to spare?

Also - probably want to see more than 15 games of Kovy before going all in on him as a keeper.

 

[Devs3cups]

Nemec isn’t moving, nor should he imo. Let him develop.

I’d like him to be sent in the AHL now though if he’s not gonna play.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

No way we go with a D corps that young. Luke would be 23, Silayev 20, Casey 22, and Nemec 22.

The reasons I see them moving on from Nemec and / or Casey are:
- age
- size
- cost efficiency

Age: Nemec and Casey are super young on a team that wants to win now. You've already got Luke making his young kid mistakes. Can you afford more? Maybe you could integrate one more into a bottom pair role, but not both.

Size: Nemec and Casey are the smallest guys of the group, and neither play a particularly physical style. As we see right now, Fitz / Keefe are actually preferring to have everyone with size / physicality vs working Nemec or Casey in. (You can say Luke isn't that physical - but then do you think Fitz / Keefe want a second guy like that?)

Cost: Guys who are drafted #2OA (Nemec) or who put up points (Casey) tend to get paid. But, the Devils don't really need the pedigree or the points. Meanwhile, every year there are available defensive D who can thrive when given a clear role in a structured system - and they make relative peanuts. See Kovacevic this year. Obviously, you're not likely to get a top 4 guy dumpster diving, but solving for 3RD is realistic. And then go find another guy like Pesce - again not flashy, but big, steady, and not breaking the bank.

These are the reasons why I thought they moved Bahl too early. He actually fit into what Fitz is trying to build. I think the Devils go looking for his equivalent on the right side.

Size is not a consideration for Nemec, not sure why you’re implying he’s small. He’s 6-1 and listed at 190, will be over 200 within the next few years. This all just seems made up, there is no pressure to “move on” from any of these young players nor much reason to do so. You’re talking about 20 year olds.

 

[R8Devs]

No way we go with a D corps that young. Luke would be 23, Silayev 20, Casey 22, and Nemec 22.

The reasons I see them moving on from Nemec and / or Casey are:
- age
- size
- cost efficiency

Age: Nemec and Casey are super young on a team that wants to win now. You've already got Luke making his young kid mistakes. Can you afford more? Maybe you could integrate one more into a bottom pair role, but not both.

Size: Nemec and Casey are the smallest guys of the group, and neither play a particularly physical style. As we see right now, Fitz / Keefe are actually preferring to have everyone with size / physicality vs working Nemec or Casey in. (You can say Luke isn't that physical - but then do you think Fitz / Keefe want a second guy like that?)

Cost: Guys who are drafted #2OA (Nemec) or who put up points (Casey) tend to get paid. But, the Devils don't really need the pedigree or the points. Meanwhile, every year there are available defensive D who can thrive when given a clear role in a structured system - and they make relative peanuts. See Kovacevic this year. Obviously, you're not likely to get a top 4 guy dumpster diving, but solving for 3RD is realistic. And then go find another guy like Pesce - again not flashy, but big, steady, and not breaking the bank.

These are the reasons why I thought they moved Bahl too early. He actually fit into what Fitz is trying to build. I think the Devils go looking for his equivalent on the right side.

they drafted 2 of those guys top 5 and the other top 10. if it's not in their plans to go young on D then they could have deviated at draft time but they didn't so they knew it was going to be like that at some point. And anyway by the time Silayev comes in to the NHL both Hughes and Nemec will have multiple years of NHL experience so they wouldn't be traditional young D. It's not like they are going 3 or 4 defenseman that are rookies/guys with 1 year of experience.

If you're talking about cost efficiency Nemec and Casey are far more likely to exceed their cap hits than good defenseman they sign in UFA. Nemec has another year after this at ELC and then after that both a bridge and/or long term deal are contracts he'd be poised to exceed as he won't have arbitration rights coming at the expiration of his deal. Casey's contract will also only expire after 26-27 so they have plenty of time before that too and he's likely not getting PP1 time or prime 5v5 minutes before then so he's probably not going to put up big numbers before his ELC ends.

Also if Nemec and/or Casey become guys that need gigantic contracts that means they have become players you move other players for to accommodate so I'm really not seeing the risk here in keeping them. You're basically saying for the Devils to trade them before they reach peak value in their current contracts.

They signed Pesce to a long term deal and he's not a physical guy, nor is Hamilton so I don't really get the assertion that they wouldn't be able to fit those guys in the lineup because they aren't physical.

 

[Ripshot 43]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853906327145218190

 

[dgibb10]

With respect to trading Nemec - who are the trading partners? Who is giving up a young C or RW on an ELC that makes dealing from a position of strength the play at this point? I totally understand the thought process but who other than Anaheim and San Jose have forwards like that to spare?

Also - probably want to see more than 15 games of Kovy before going all in on him as a keeper.

I'd be ballsy enough to offer Kovacevic an extension now on hopes it becomes a bargain asset, being low risk even if he's a number 7. He gets security for a guy who's yet to make above league minimum and in exchange we get that potential bargain.

But you don't move Nemec

 

[HersheyBob27]

Fitz gets an A from me. I’ve liked all the signings, not sure what’s next for Tatar

Glue factory

 

[My3Sons]

Glue factory

I’m sure there is some step between NHL player and glue factory but I’m not 100% sure.

 

[woody footbreaker]

i should have written that i absolutely think Kovy should get a contract from us, actually the day the trade was announced, i thought Fitz should try to sign on the cheap, he still should and i think a bridge deal could make sense for both sides. He is better then just a 3rd pairing and exactly the type of player you need for the playoffs. We cant just go with Dillon being the only guy physical back there. Gives us more options when it comes to move Douggie or one of the prospects.

As some of you wrote, there is not many teams willing to trade a potential 2nd line center and i rather go for higher quality as this could turn us into a real contender. I dont see any other chance with the cap space available the next two years.

again a 9AO center in a deep draft with one more year ELC then Nemec, that would help the team more then waiting for Nemec seems like a fair deal and if we get an additional pick even better.
Detroit just sticks out and Danielson really seems the perfect fit for the Devils. They would also be potential trade partners when it comes to moving Douggie, but that contract could be more difficult to move given the 10team trade list.

There is pro and cons for both Casey and Nemec, when it comes to who of the two should be moved.
i would like to see Fitz being active this time and not wait until we get even more injuries.
Friedman mentioned Bosten could move Frederick and i saw Geekie was a healthy scratch last game, they both would be great to have too

 

[tailfins]

they drafted 2 of those guys top 5 and the other top 10. if it's not in their plans to go young on D then they could have deviated at draft time but they didn't so they knew it was going to be like that at some point. And anyway by the time Silayev comes in to the NHL both Hughes and Nemec will have multiple years of NHL experience so they wouldn't be traditional young D. It's not like they are going 3 or 4 defenseman that are rookies/guys with 1 year of experience.

If you're talking about cost efficiency Nemec and Casey are far more likely to exceed their cap hits than good defenseman they sign in UFA. Nemec has another year after this at ELC and then after that both a bridge and/or long term deal are contracts he'd be poised to exceed as he won't have arbitration rights coming at the expiration of his deal. Casey's contract will also only expire after 26-27 so they have plenty of time before that too and he's likely not getting PP1 time or prime 5v5 minutes before then so he's probably not going to put up big numbers before his ELC ends.

Also if Nemec and/or Casey become guys that need gigantic contracts that means they have become players you move other players for to accommodate so I'm really not seeing the risk here in keeping them. You're basically saying for the Devils to trade them before they reach peak value in their current contracts.

They signed Pesce to a long term deal and he's not a physical guy, nor is Hamilton so I don't really get the assertion that they wouldn't be able to fit those guys in the lineup because they aren't physical.

I'm saying that they won't have room or time for these guys to reach "peak" value, so should be looking to trade at least one of them before they lose value.

Holtz is a cautionary tale. How much of Holtz's story is that Holtz was a poor pick and how much is that Holtz didn't have the right opportunity to develop with the Devils? Obviously the Cotter deal has been good for the Devils, but it's not at all what people were expecting out of the #7OA pick.

I don't think Nemec is losing value. It's Casey's first year in the pros, so clearly he's not losing value either. But, that won't be the story forever.

 

[dgibb10]

i should have written that i absolutely think Kovy should get a contract from us, actually the day the trade was announced, i thought Fitz should try to sign on the cheap, he still should and i think a bridge deal could make sense for both sides. He is better then just a 3rd pairing and exactly the type of player you need for the playoffs. We cant just go with Dillon being the only guy physical back there. Gives us more options when it comes to move Douggie or one of the prospects.

As some of you wrote, there is not many teams willing to trade a potential 2nd line center and i rather go for higher quality as this could turn us into a real contender. I dont see any other chance with the cap space available the next two years.

again a 9AO center in a deep draft with one more year ELC then Nemec, that would help the team more then waiting for Nemec seems like a fair deal and if we get an additional pick even better.
Detroit just sticks out and Danielson really seems the perfect fit for the Devils. They would also be potential trade partners when it comes to moving Douggie, but that contract could be more difficult to move given the 10team trade list.

There is pro and cons for both Casey and Nemec, when it comes to who of the two should be moved.
i would like to see Fitz being active this time and not wait until we get even more injuries.
Friedman mentioned Bosten could move Frederick and i saw Geekie was a healthy scratch last game, they both would be great to have too

NJD does not need a 2C. We have Nico and Jack, both of whom should be able to fill up our 1 and 2C spot for the next decade.

What we don't have is a 1RD long term. That is Simon Nemec.

 

[dzubrus8]

With respect to trading Nemec - who are the trading partners? Who is giving up a young C or RW on an ELC that makes dealing from a position of strength the play at this point? I totally understand the thought process but who other than Anaheim and San Jose have forwards like that to spare?

Also - probably want to see more than 15 games of Kovy before going all in on him as a keeper.

Off the top of my head I wonder if it’s interesting for Anaheim, Buffalo, Columbus, Detroit, Nashville, Ottawa (iirc they have a lot of LHD), San Jose could all be options

 

[dgibb10]

i should have written that i absolutely think Kovy should get a contract from us, actually the day the trade was announced, i thought Fitz should try to sign on the cheap, he still should and i think a bridge deal could make sense for both sides. He is better then just a 3rd pairing and exactly the type of player you need for the playoffs. We cant just go with Dillon being the only guy physical back there. Gives us more options when it comes to move Douggie or one of the prospects.

As some of you wrote, there is not many teams willing to trade a potential 2nd line center and i rather go for higher quality as this could turn us into a real contender. I dont see any other chance with the cap space available the next two years.

again a 9AO center in a deep draft with one more year ELC then Nemec, that would help the team more then waiting for Nemec seems like a fair deal and if we get an additional pick even better.
Detroit just sticks out and Danielson really seems the perfect fit for the Devils. They would also be potential trade partners when it comes to moving Douggie, but that contract could be more difficult to move given the 10team trade list.

There is pro and cons for both Casey and Nemec, when it comes to who of the two should be moved.
i would like to see Fitz being active this time and not wait until we get even more injuries.
Friedman mentioned Bosten could move Frederick and i saw Geekie was a healthy scratch last game, they both would be great to have too

If your assumption is Kovacevic is a top 4 RD all year, then frankly he's the guy you sell.

If you get to the deadline and Kovacevic is still playing like this, you sell HIM and bring Nemec into the lineup. Then if you want you can use that 1st to go trade for/draft a 3C prospect.

(Sean Walker got a 1st last year after being a cap giveaway)

 

[woody footbreaker]

NJD does not need a 2C. We have Nico and Jack, both of whom should be able to fill up our 1 and 2C spot for the next decade.

What we don't have is a 1RD long term. That is Simon Nemec.

8 think they do. i am of strong believe the devils would be better with jack playing wing or at least playing him in a hybrid role as when haula was up there playing with him.
if we get another power forward for our top six which we should anyway, then you can play the new C on the 3rd line and turn the devils into a true contender for years to come. if one of nico/jack go down for a bit, it doesnt look good at all.

i dont think with our forward group we have what it takes this year, but i am really excited for next year. Fitz has definitely some options and its up to them evaluate what Nemec/Casey will become within a year or so. but they should really try to flip one of them into a quality C prospect

 

[dgibb10]

i am of strong believe the devils would be better with jack playing wing

Full honesty, I no longer value your opinion on anything related to hockey based on this sentence.

Also Jack didn't play a hybrid role with Haula. Jack was the center, Haula just took faceoffs.

 

[woody footbreaker]

and for Kovy, i really think he has more value then most give him credit for. If you sign him to a reasonable brigde deal, his trade value would be even higher, should they decide to move him later

 

[Triumph]

If your assumption is Kovacevic is a top 4 RD all year, then frankly he's the guy you sell.

If you get to the deadline and Kovacevic is still playing like this, you sell HIM and bring Nemec into the lineup. Then if you want you can use that 1st to go trade for/draft a 3C prospect.

(Sean Walker got a 1st last year after being a cap giveaway)

Sean Walker had a reasonably long career of being okay and also came with the cap dump of Ryan Johansen. He did not get a 1st outright.

At most, you could sell Kovacevic for a 2nd at the deadline, and that's if he keeps up this level and usage. He has never played in the playoffs before. He's been on waivers and was traded for a 4th round pick.

 

[Guadana]

Agreed that moving Dougie in 2 years is the ideal outcome to keep all around but I think it’s too much talent in the backend while there are glaring needs at forward that’s historically not easy to patch in FA or a pick for player trade unless you’re willing to take on a 30+ year old.*

Not trying to be rhetorical - who are some defensemen that are Casey’s size and are elite TWDs or really stout defensively? I’m not saying he’s too small to be a good player I’m just less interested in a Makar/Fox archetype if that’s what he’s forecasted to be stylistically (talent wise of course that would be awesome) given how this defense is looking in 2-3 years. Think you already have plenty offensive talent from L Hughes and Nemec and Dougie if he is still around. I think Casey could be a great player but given the need for what’s actually a 2C but I’ll call a middle-6 C that’s a move I’d think about making. I’d take either Bystedt or Danielson for Casey but probably neither for Nemec.

*Only recent trade/FA examples that come to mind are Trocheck, Hertl (injury prone, high retention contract that had the potential to be a disaster). You have some short term fixes like ROR or Duchene if you’re willing to go 30+ which I’m not opposed to but otherwise hard to get a prime aged player of that ilk.

Detroit have Wallinder, Pellikka, plus Seider and Edvinsson. They dont need to trade Denielson for Casey.
San Jose is more interesting case. But I dont know who will win this trade. Of course we dont need to win every trade, we need to build good team with good depth. But still i would prefer to save Casey.

Trading Nemec is crazy.