Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXIV

[Azathoth]

Jack doesnt like to play stop / start hockey. It's what makes him so dangerous in transition, cause he's always moving. As he matures he should learn, particularly in the defensive zone on the breakout to ensure we have the puck before he flies the zone. If there are sub-optimal passes, he needs to be prepared to slam on the brakes and ensure there is proper coverage. It's hockey 101 but I'm not too fussed right now. Issues like that will become more magnified as the games we play become more important and I'm confident he'll adjust.

I wonder how much of that Jack being Jack and how much of that is Jack just doing what Ruff's system is (for better or worse) designed to do?

 

[Camille the Eel]

McLeod has absolutely done that effectively, part of the reason he hasn't done it effectively this year is because he's had a guy like Vesey or Kuokkanen on his wing and not Wood, who can enter the zone with possession and get a good cycle game going.

I don't understand this notion of 'we need more out of the 4th line center position'. It's one of the least important forwards on the team. It's not even clear on a lot of teams who the 4th line center is.

Florida has used some combination of Eetu Luotsarainen, Joe Thornton, and Noel Acciari this year. Toronto has Jason Spezza, a unique situation. Tampa seems to have used PE Bellemare. Boston has Tomas Nosek. Carolina has Derek Stepan, the Rangers have Kevin Rooney, Pittsburgh has Brian Boyle, and Washington has Nic Dowd. Are most of these guys better than McLeod, probably, but not in any significant way except Spezza.

I don’t have a lot of recall of McLeod centered lines doing well on a forecheck. But I don’t recall a lot of that from our team at all over the past three seasons. From any of our lines. It could well be that we aren’t coached for it. Blaming McLeod can be guilt by association, I grant you.

I was personally always a fan until this season. I do wish he could score better. I see him getting chances occasionally one on one with the goalie down low where he doesn’t seem to make a move or a fake to free up a scoring chance and where he doesn’t seem to lift the puck either. The puck gets stuffed into the goalies pads. The long scoring droughts are by now a pattern.

The question only arises if we think we have someone better. I do think he has not been the proverbial “problem” with the club and that he’s a useful player.

 

[Billdo]

Bernier's rights were included in the Ned trade. They tried to lock him up an failed, leading to Rannta going to Car and JB ending up here

Ah that's right.

 

[Eggtimer]

Bernier's rights were included in the Ned trade. They tried to lock him up an failed, leading to Rannta going to Car and JB ending up here

I thnk that is one of the very few times where it has not worked to trad dfor a players rights then were not able to work out a deal. Canes lowballed their goalies in my opinion , and I can see why Bernier turned down their offer. Ine other example I can think of is Versey. Before he signed with the Rangers , I think Buffalo traded for his rights. Im sure there are other examples , but for the most part , I thnk teams that trade for a players rights have at least some indication that they will be able to sign the player. I’d be fine with trading a late pick for Nuke. Shows him we are commited to tryig to sign him and he’s very much wanted .

 

[AfroThunder396]

Jack doesnt like to play stop / start hockey. It's what makes him so dangerous in transition, cause he's always moving. As he matures he should learn, particularly in the defensive zone on the breakout to ensure we have the puck before he flies the zone. If there are sub-optimal passes, he needs to be prepared to slam on the brakes and ensure there is proper coverage. It's hockey 101 but I'm not too fussed right now. Issues like that will become more magnified as the games we play become more important and I'm confident he'll adjust.

I think this is mostly on Ruff's system tbh. Bratt, Zacha, Mercer, and Johnsson all struggle with this too. As soon as the puck become contested in the defensive zone at least one forward will spring up ice looking to breakout, and in transition from offense -> defense there will usually be a forward straggling back hoping to get lost behind the D and catch an outlet.

I'm not sure if the cheating in transition thing is because we're so bad at cycling that we need to force feed breakouts, or if they are choosing to specifically focus on transition and not forechecking. But I really don't think this is a Jack Hughes problem. He can get better with it but this is a feature, not a bug.

 

[RangerDoggo]

I really hope that Fitz is actually as tired of Ruff's system as he seemed to be after the deadline. I don't want another season lost by being too loyal to incompetence.

 

[njdevils1982]

Anyways, you guys mull this over, I have to go scrape a huge driveway (yes it's as bad as it sounds).

but will you water your driveway like italians love to do?

 

[Hisch13r]

Look at our little perimeter playmaker go

 

[Eggtimer]

Look at our little perimeter playmaker go

Cool. Imagine how many he’d have if he had a winger that can create space for him.

 

[Hisch13r]

Cool. Imagine how many he’d have if he had a winger that can create space for him.

This is always so funny to me considering his 2 best partners throughout his NTDP and NHL career have been smaller than him. Jack creates himself by being damn near uncontainable with his skating. Those other 2 have also helped create space by being so good and being big threats. You don’t need to be big and physical to create space.

 

[Guttersniped]

Take away the recent games we have played without Hughes and just look at the games we have played with Hughes.

He plays more minutes than any other fwd. While being on the ice for more shots against, and more goals against than any other fwd.

I was thinking this the other day. What do you want your team to do if the opposition has brought up a 21 year old goalie in his first pro season? Or the opposition pulled some guy from the AHL who had a good NHL season 5 years ago, but has been a dud ever since? Get shots on net.

With Hughes we allow that to happen more then any other fwd.

It’s more complicated than because Jack missed our best stretch of goaltending early with Bernier & a healthier Blackwood.

He came back when Blackwood was on his last legs (err heel) and was playing when he shouldn’t and let everything in. He then got Schmid and Gillies.

We did better with Daws. If you want to think it’s not goaltending then imagine Hammond in these games.

I’m happy Jack grew his offensive game and didn’t give up being creative or trying stuff even when every mistake basically ended up in the net.

He made mistakes but he’s growing his game and figuring it out. I had zero interest in Jack focusing on playing conservatively to shelter garbage goaltending mostly by nobodies who we will never see again or kids who shouldn’t be here. He would not be producing at his elite offensive level if that was his mindset and he wouldn’t have taken the massive step he took. We can figure out our defensive issues without neutering Jack Hughes.

Daws also has a hand when he plays better or worse, unlike Schmid who was overwhelmed, you can see him trying to figure it out.

Young players (players in general) who play top minutes (I’m talking top 10 in 5v5, which is where Jack was (10th) generally are being leaned on to produce. That’s his job, to carry us offensively.

Also a big problem we had in the last couple months was our top PK has deteriorated, both in terms of xG & G. Daws has had trouble there. Jack took zero penalties while playing an ass ton. That helps a lot too.

He’s not some uncoachable, hotdogging dummy and let’s see how he does defensively with functional goaltending over a full season. Knock on wood on us getting that, but it has to happen eventually, right? (RIGHT?!?)

He’s also always going to be more like Patrick Kane than Patrice Bergeron. I will take a Kane-like offensive monster. And he’s still growing.

 

[Hisch13r]

It’s more complicated than because Jack missed our best stretch of goaltending early with Bernier & a healthier Blackwood.

He came back when Blackwood was on his last legs (err heel) and was playing when he shouldn’t and let everything in. He then got Schmid and Gillies.

We did better with Daws. If you want to think it’s not goaltending then imagine Hammond in these games.

I’m happy Jack grew his offensive game and didn’t give up being creative or trying stuff even when every mistake basically ended up in the net.

He made mistakes but he’s growing his game and figuring it out. I had zero interest in Jack focusing on playing conservatively to shelter garbage goaltending mostly by nobodies who we will never see again or kids who shouldn’t be here. He would not be producing at his elite offensive level if that was his mindset and he wouldn’t have taken the massive step he took. We can figure out our defensive issues without neutering Jack Hughes.

Daws also has a hand when he plays better or worse, unlike Schmid who was overwhelmed, you can see him trying to figure it out.

Young players (players in general) who play top minutes (I’m talking top 10 in 5v5, which is where Jack was (10th) generally are being leaned on to produce. That’s his job, to carry us offensively.

Also a big problem we had in the last couple months was our top PK has deteriorated, both in terms of xG & G. Daws has had trouble there. Jack took zero penalties while playing an ass ton. That helps a lot too.

He’s not some uncoachable, hotdogging dummy and let’s see how he does defensively with functional goaltending over a full season. Knock on wood on us getting that, but it has to happen eventually, right? (RIGHT?!?)

He’s also always going to be more like Patrick Kane than Patrice Bergeron. I will take a Kane-like offensive monster. And he’s still growing.

He could be as good as Kane offensively or even better. He’ll definitely be better defensively. He’s always been a much more willing defender than Kane and his impacts were legitimately great last year

 

[Omar Little]

I think this is mostly on Ruff's system tbh. Bratt, Zacha, Mercer, and Johnsson all struggle with this too. As soon as the puck become contested in the defensive zone at least one forward will spring up ice looking to breakout, and in transition from offense -> defense there will usually be a forward straggling back hoping to get lost behind the D and catch an outlet.

I'm not sure if the cheating in transition thing is because we're so bad at cycling that we need to force feed breakouts, or if they are choosing to specifically focus on transition and not forechecking. But I really don't think this is a Jack Hughes problem. He can get better with it but this is a feature, not a bug.

You are probably right. It's pretty problematic though that if the boards winger doesn't make a perfect pass we are giving up high quality opportunities

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

@ Tom Fitzgerald

 

[Triumph]

@ Tom Fitzgerald

Where does he play next year?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Where does he play next year?

I do not care about Akira Schmid, let’s put it that way. He can go play wherever.

 

[Bleedred]

I do not care about Akira Schmid, let’s put it that way. He can go play wherever.

I still think Schmid could be better than Daws, but I don't think he is right now.

It would be interesting if we could compare the two at the AHL level a little more this year.

 

[Triumph]

I do not care about Akira Schmid, let’s put it that way. He can go play wherever.

You don't care about Akira Schmid, a goalie who went from the USHL to the AHL, something almost nobody does, with seemingly no issue?

The Devils need a veteran 5th goalie. They don't need Dryden McKay, or Strauss Mann, or any of these other guys. If they are going to sign another goalie for next year who doesn't play on the NHL roster, it should be someone like a Wedgewood or Hammond or whatever. It makes less than no sense to add another young goalie to the team.

 

[Guttersniped]

@ Tom Fitzgerald

I’ve been low key hoping for this and will be disappointed when it doesn’t happen lol.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

You don't care about Akira Schmid, a goalie who went from the USHL to the AHL, something almost nobody does, with seemingly no issue?

The Devils need a veteran 5th goalie. They don't need Dryden McKay, or Strauss Mann, or any of these other guys. If they are going to sign another goalie for next year who doesn't play on the NHL roster, it should be someone like a Wedgewood or Hammond or whatever. It makes less than no sense to add another young goalie to the team.

Didn’t they say the original plan was the ECHL for him this year? Doesn’t look like he’s playing very well lately either. I’d much rather have someone that is possibly further along than someone that looked not remotely close to ready for the NHL when he came up (it’s unfair, it was only a few games, but he was terrible). Go put Schmid somewhere else for all I care.

 

[Bleedred]

For what it's worth, Schmid has had a better AHL season than Blackwood ever did. Although Schmid is a little bit older than Blackwood was for most of his time in the AHL.

Kinkaid had one season right around near Schmid's current season. He also had one .923% season in the AHL in 14-15, but it was only 13 games and he was in the NHL for most of that season.

 

[Billdo]

For what it's worth, Schmid has had a better AHL season than Blackwood ever did. Although Schmid is a little bit older than Blackwood was for most of his time in the AHL.

Kinkaid had one season right around near Schmid's current season. He also had one .923% season in the AHL in 14-15, but it was only 13 games and he was in the NHL for most of that season.

I still bet on Schmid being better than Daws long term. Idk why, but I do.

 

[AfroThunder396]

We have plenty of young developing guys, what we need is a goalie who can step into the NHL and contribute immediately. That's not Dryden McKay or Strauss Mann.

I have no interest in continuing to plug children and journeyman into that spot and hoping that one of them figures it out. We need a reliable starter.

 

[devilsblood]

@ Tom Fitzgerald

.914 this season in Sweden. Is that absolutely great?

.930 or higher his last 2 seasons at Michigan. So very good there.

6ft tall.

We need a legit NHL goalie that we can count to play 40+ games. I don't think this is our guy.

 

[Eggtimer]

This is always so funny to me considering his 2 best partners throughout his NTDP and NHL career have been smaller than him. Jack creates himself by being damn near uncontainable with his skating. Those other 2 have also helped create space by being so good and being big threats. You don’t need to be big and physical to create space.

Yes but who is to say that someone big and physical could get even more out of Jack by beig even more effective at creating time and speed for him ?