Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VI

[Devil X]

That should be the popular opinion because it’s the correct one. I really don’t see a path forward for Yegor here beyond this year. 5/6 top 6 spots are now basically locked in. You hope Holtz takes that last spot. If he doesn’t then Palat or Tatar as the 6th and the other a 3rd line wing. I’d rather get Clarke in there as the other wing on his ELC than Yegor. Yegor’s a useful top 6 piece and basically a PK specialist in a bottom 6 role.

The one thing with Yegor is his very valuable on the PK. I agree he might not fit just right and if he has to play with super skilled players then moving on might be whats best overall. It its nice to have a guy that can come into the top 6 and be productive and not just toss some player up there if injuries occur.

Guess it will depend on the contract he asks for.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

That should be the popular opinion because it’s the correct one. I really don’t see a path forward for Yegor here beyond this year. 5/6 top 6 spots are now basically locked in. You hope Holtz takes that last spot. If he doesn’t then Palat or Tatar as the 6th and the other a 3rd line wing. I’d rather get Clarke in there as the other wing on his ELC than Yegor. Yegor’s a useful top 6 piece and basically a PK specialist in a bottom 6 role.

Agree. Sign Tatar and trade Sharangovich but also wondering if rather than signing a cheaper defensive 3C such as Haula for 2-3M we should go for a better 3C who can provide more offensive for say 4-5.5M.

Would still leave you like 2ish-7M in cap space for a defense signing and/or goalie addition.

 

[Billdo]

Can it be 8 year deals with 66.6?

Sure

 

[Hisch13r]

I assumed a 3C is resigned before this. It’s already counted against the cap when I went through.That’s a guarentee.
Don’t know if Tatar is if they want to get a decent defensmen and given what we already have.

How much would Holl cost?

What if we could sign Tatar, Graves(or someone similar), and get a okay backup goalie but had to trade Sharangovich to afford that?

You had Haula/3C as alternative to Tatar so I figured you were saying either or. I’m not sure they go Tatar over D but they really should. Tatar’s an elite two way play driver who is literally leading the league in GF% this year.

I’m not sure how much Holl would cost tbh. Maybe like 2 mil. The thing with Graves to me is I’m not sure he’d sign a deal I’d really want to. I think he could get more on the open market. If he wants to stay for like 4 mil over 3 years or something I guess that works

I’m fully ready to move on from Yegor.

Quickly throwing this together you could have both Meier and Bratt at 9, and Tatar and Graves at 4 and still make it work

 

[Captain3rdLine]

The one thing with Yegor is his very valuable on the PK. I agree he might not fit just right and if he has to play with super skilled players then moving on might be whats best overall. It its nice to have a guy that can come into the top 6 and be productive and not just toss some player up there if injuries occur.

Guess it will depend on the contract he asks for.

But he isn’t that productive even in the top 6. Tatar is more productive and all around valuable.

The point is that we might be in a position where we have to choose between the 2 and it’s probably better to go with Tatar over Sharangovich.

 

[McDuffz88]

Fitz is a pretty candid guy. What incentive is there for him to lie? Bratt backing last year and proving last year wasn't a fluke makes Fitz more comfortable giving him a big contract. A lot has changed since last summer.

I 100% trust Fitz and he's definitely talking to Bratts agent right now, but that's the issue. I think the agent is the one that's giving a hard time. I have a feeling the agent will drag things out until the very end. He's probably going to wait to see what Meier signs for then point to that contract and want the same thing.

 

[Hisch13r]

Agree. Sign Tatar and trade Sharangovich but also wondering if rather than signing a cheaper defensive 3C such as Haula for 2-3M we should go for a better 3C who can provide more offensive for say 4-5.5M.

Would still leave you like 2ish-7M in cap space for a defense signing and/or goalie addition.

Would a better 3C mean no Tatar? If that's the case then no. Gimme Tatar and a Haula type 3C.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

You had Haula/3C as alternative to Tatar so I figured you were saying either or. I’m not sure they go Tatar over D but they really should. Tatar’s an elite two way play driver who is literally leading the league in GF% this year.

I’m not sure how much Holl would cost tbh. Maybe like 2 mil. The thing with Graves to me is I’m not sure he’d sign a deal I’d really want to. I think he could get more on the open market. If he wants to stay for like 4 mil over 3 years or something I guess that works

I’m fully ready to move on from Yegor.

Quickly throwing this together you could have both Meier and Bratt at 9, and Tatar and Graves at 4 and still make it work

View attachment 658532

It was an alternative in the sense of that would be one of the guys you are just hoping can provide enough secondary scoring along with the other players I mentioned if you don’t sign Tatar or a player like him.

 

[Zippy316]

Agree. Sign Tatar and trade Sharangovich but also wondering if rather than signing a cheaper defensive 3C such as Haula for 2-3M we should go for a better 3C who can provide more offensive for say 4-5.5M.

Would still leave you like 2ish-7M in cap space for a defense signing and/or goalie addition.

I don’t know if Tatar makes a lot of sense to keep around with our current forward group moving forward though. He’s not getting top six time or top PP time and he doesn’t PK.

Obviously depends on the cost, but Tatar at the same AAV could be better used on different type of forward.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Would a better 3C mean no Tatar? If that's the case then no. Gimme Tatar and a Haula type 3C.

No I think you could reasonably do both if you trade Sharangovich. You’d have a little less for a defensemen and/or goalie if we want to do something there afterwards. As I said probably 2-7M.

 

[Hisch13r]

The one thing with Yegor is his very valuable on the PK. I agree he might not fit just right and if he has to play with super skilled players then moving on might be whats best overall. It its nice to have a guy that can come into the top 6 and be productive and not just toss some player up there if injuries occur.

Guess it will depend on the contract he asks for.

I mean sure he's a valuable PKer but in a bottom 6 role he's kind of just a PK specialist. You've got Nico. Mercer could be a valuable PKer. Palat could. Then your 4th line guys like McLeod and Bastian. You don't need Yegor for the PK and that'd be his primary value. I agree it's nice to haave guys on the 3rd line who can step into a top 6 role and produce. We'd have Palat and Tatar for that though.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I don’t know if Tatar makes a lot of sense to keep around with our current forward group moving forward though. He’s not getting top six time or top PP time and he doesn’t PK.

Obviously depends on the cost, but Tatar at the same AAV could be better used on different type of forward.

I completely disagree. He’s exactly the forward we don’t have much of outside of our top 6. Sharangovich, Holtz and possibly Clarke are gonna be much less well rounded options and Tatar is a better player in or outside of the top 6. I’m talking about if he costs around 3M which I think is reasonable.

 

[Hisch13r]

No I think you could reasonably do both if you trade Sharangovich. You’d have a little less for a defensemen and/or goalie if we want to do something there afterwards. As I said probably 2-7M.

I guess either one would work. For the lineup I threw out it's 4 mil for Graves and 2.5 for 3C. I guess 4.5 for 3C and then like 2 for a Holl or other 3RD. I might lean more towards the 3C because it's more of a long term need. I don't think you need Graves with term when after next year you could have Bahl as an adequate 3LD instead and both Luke/Nemec as impact guys

 

[Zippy316]

I completely disagree. He’s exactly the forward we don’t have much of outside of our top 6. Sharangovich, Holtz and possibly Clarke are gonna be much less well rounded options and Tatar is a better player in or outside of the top 6. I’m talking about if he costs around 3M which I think is reasonable.

If you can sign him for a couple years at 3 million per I’m all for it.

But if he’s coming back at 4.5 or 5, not sure which he’s currently making, I’d argue I’d want to spread that money out better.

 

[Devil X]

I mean sure he's a valuable PKer but in a bottom 6 role he's kind of just a PK specialist. You've got Nico. Mercer could be a valuable PKer. Palat could. Then your 4th line guys like McLeod and Bastian. You don't need Yegor for the PK and that'd be his primary value. I agree it's nice to haave guys on the 3rd line who can step into a top 6 role and produce. We'd have Palat and Tatar for that though.

And while Tatar has been great this season we are also talking about a 33 year old vs a 24 year old. Ultimately if Fitz and the Devils feels its best to move on from Yegor. But I think there can still be growth in Yegors game. While Tatar could fall off a cliff.

Also Id like to see how the playoffs go, if Tatar has a normal playoff no one will be looking to bring him back next year. I think he will actually do will this playoff as he seems to be playing a bit more physical then the past but who knows.

 

[Hisch13r]

Holtz is still ahead of Clarke in depth chart, depending on how bad his injury is.

Sure Holtz is higher but I don't think they'd be all that keen to toss Holtz into a 3rd line role in the playoffs (maybe not even top 6). Get Clarke in there to see what you have and maybe he could jump Holtz for this run.

And while Tatar has been great this season we are also talking about a 33 year old vs a 24 year old. Ultimately if Fitz and the Devils feels its best to move on from Yegor. But I think there can still be growth in Yegors game. While Tatar could fall off a cliff.

Also Id like to see how the playoffs go, if Tatar has a normal playoff no one will be looking to bring him back next year. I think he will actually do will this playoff as he seems to be playing a bit more physical then the past but who knows.

I really don't care about 33 vs 24. The gap in quality of player is MASSIVE. Yegor's a guy. Tatar's an elite two way play driver. I don't think Yegor's some guy that you can't replace who would make me regret moving him. Tatar on the other hand isn't someone you can replace. I'll take the risk Tatar falls off the cliff over Yegor turning out to be pretty decent

 

[MB3]

The one thing with Yegor is his very valuable on the PK.

I feel like this just gets repeated so everyone eventually believes it. The eye test tells me he's a below-average penalty killer. The advanced stats back it up.

Yegor Sharangovich is the worst qualified Devils forward on the penalty kill in nearly every metric.

 

[NJDevils17]

You essentially have 6 spots up for grabs longterm.

Internally:
Sharangovich, Tatar (?), McLeod, Bastian, Clarke, Holtz, Gritsyuk, Foote, Stillman, Filmon and maybe Thompson.

I think you’d like to pencil in Holtz as a scoring wing and if Sharangovich stays, another scorer with good defense/PK ability? I think he could be dealt for an older player with term but more playoff experience, preferably a C.

Tatar should be kept if he’s reasonable, he’s a great mid six player who can slide into a top line role.

So the big questions are probably: does Gritsyuk become a contributor in New Jersey and is Clarke anything more than a AAAA player.

Who isn’t contributing longterm (my guess): BMW line in its entirety, Foote, Thompson, and Filmon seems like a potential trade piece in the next few years.

With Timo here, this is a really good opportunity to cycle through some depth on ELCs or cheap contracts.

 

[JimEIV]

I don’t know if Tatar makes a lot of sense to keep around with our current forward group moving forward though. He’s not getting top six time or top PP time and he doesn’t PK.

Obviously depends on the cost, but Tatar at the same AAV could be better used on different type of forward.

This exactly... he's not really suited to be a bottom 6 player but he isn't good enough for the top 6 either.

And yes he is still a soft perimeter player...sorry in advance to those that are going to be triggered by this ... but he just is.

I'm really not sure what the fascination is with player to be honest. He's filler at this point. Everything about him is not only replaceable but upgradable.

 

[Hisch13r]

You essentially have 6 spots up for grabs longterm.

Internally:
Sharangovich, Tatar (?), McLeod, Bastian, Clarke, Holtz, Gritsyuk, Foote, Stillman, Filmon and maybe Thompson.

I think you’d like to pencil in Holtz as a scoring wing and if Sharangovich stays, another scorer with good defense/PK ability? I think he could be dealt for an older player with term but more playoff experience, preferably a C.

Tatar should be kept if he’s reasonable, he’s a great mid six player who can slide into a top line role.

So the big questions are probably: does Gritsyuk become a contributor in New Jersey and is Clarke anything more than a AAAA player.

Who isn’t contributing longterm (my guess): BMW line in its entirety, Foote, Thompson, and Filmon seems like a potential trade piece in the next few years.

With Timo here, this is a really good opportunity to cycle through some depth on ELCs or cheap contracts.

To me there really isn't 6 spots up for grab long term. It's 3. I don't think of a 4th line as a long term thing. Those guys generally get shuffled out. For the 3C as of now I don't see it and we'll probably be filling it with vets until we have the solution. Hopefully you get Holtz for the top 6 wing.

I'll go one by one on the guys you have listed

Yegor - Not a long term fit to me
Tatar - Not long term but essential in the short term
McLeod and Bastian - 4th liners
Clarke - Could maybe be a solid 3rd liner or middle 6er. I'd want him on the roster next year. Maybe Holtz can't hack it so you have Clarke on the 3rd line and Palat/Tatar shift up. Or you have him as like the 13th forward
Holtz - REALLY hope he works out because that top 6 would be so stupid
Gritsyuk - Not coming for another couple years anyway but could be a really key piece when he does
Foote - Never been a fan. I think he's irrelevant
Stillman - Sucks
Filmon - Hoping for a 3rd liner
Thompson - I've always really wanted him to work out. I don't see the top 9 upside really though. Maybe a 4th liner next year

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Far too much Tatar talk. Good solid player that is helping us win. Should bring the player back.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

@Hisch13r

Basically this is the framework I’m working with. was geneous on some players contracts:

Meier (10)-Hughes (8)- Bratt(9)
Palat (6)- Hischier (7.25) -Mercer (0.9)
______- ______ - Holtz (0.9)
______-Mcleod (1.5)-Bastian (1)
Boqvist (1)- _______

Options: 4-5M 3C, Haula (2-2.5), Tatar (3-3.5), Sharangovich (2-3), other mid 6 forward for 2.5-4M, Clarke/or other ELC forwards(0.9), Wood (unlikely & no clue on cost but probably too expensive)

Siegenthaler (3.4)-Dougie (9)
Hughes (0.95)- Marino (4.4)
______-Smith (1.1)
Bahl (1)

Options: 4-5M mid pair D (eg. Graves), cheaper 3rd pair/vet D (1-2.5), Nemec

Vanacek (3.4)
______

Options: NHL goalie (eg. Blackwood or veteran), Schmid

With the guys listed without players filling the blank spots and if the cap went up to 83.5M. We’d have 12.125M (likely 11-15M realistically) to fill those 6 blank spots. Think at least one forward spot could/needs to be filled by a young guy on and ELC such as Clarke or alternatively a cheap depth forward for like 1M.

So then you’re probably talking about around 11M for 5 spots including 1 goalie (could be schmid if comfortable), 1 D (decision on how good/how much to spend), and 3 more forwards including a mandatory 3C and at least 1 middle 6 forward such as Sharangovich, Tatar.

Far too much Tatar talk. Good solid player that is helping us win. Should bring the player back.

It’s all about the cost. Even at 3M could essentially be at the expense of a decent mid pair D or a player like Sharangovich.

 

[MauDevils]

I'll bring back Tatar for 1 year <$3 million. He deserves more but we can't pay it.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

This exactly... he's not really suited to be a bottom 6 player but he isn't good enough for the top 6 either.

And yes he is still a soft perimeter player...sorry in advance to those that are going to be triggered by this ... but he just is.

I'm really not sure what the fascination is with player to be honest. He's filler at this point. Everything about him is not only replaceable but upgradable.

lol. Battles as hard and wins as many battles as anyone out there but is a soft perimeter player because he’s not tall. When’s not in the top 6 he’s our best and most effective player outside of it.

If you can sign him for a couple years at 3 million per I’m all for it.

But if he’s coming back at 4.5 or 5, not sure which he’s currently making, I’d argue I’d want to spread that money out better.

He’s currently making 4.5M. No chance he makes that much again. We were the highest bidders then and he’s 2 years older and hasn’t had as good of production since then. Think 3M is reasonable especially if he wants to stay. Could even get as low as 2-2.5M if he wants to try and win a cup with us but I wouldn’t count on that.

 

[HenriquesJawLine]

My 3C target for next year is RFA Ross Colton