Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VI

[NHL Fanatik]

Graves is going to get a substantial raise and I wouldn't bring him back at 6M AAV.

Fitz shouldn't have a hard time finding a decent LHD, whether through trade or FA.

Itll be pretty challenging to find a LHD in trade; this isnt a rebuilding, 'we can eat cap space' type team anymore

Graves cost us a high 2nd+Maltsev. Im not paying a 1st+ for a two year rental 'til Luke takes over 2LD and now I got a 4m+ contract on my third pair with plenty of AHL LD

FA or Graves on a short deal are the only realistic options, outside raking over a desperate or dumb GM. I doubt Fitz is willing to move back to back to back 1sts fresh out of a rebuild

 

[Forge]

You cant afford nor fit all three of Graves / Tatar / Haula

Were going to have to pick two and... idk if Haula makes the cut. Then again Tatar can be more easily replaced even tho I like him more

Tatar-Hischier-Meier
Palat-Hughes-Holtz
Bratt-Boqvist-Mercer
Foote-McLeod-Bastian

Just as a hypothetical roster I posted here two days, for viewing purposes

I've never for a second thought that Graves was going to be back after this season.

 

[Nubmer6]

Itll be pretty challenging to find a LHD in trade; this isnt a rebuilding, 'we can eat cap space' type team anymore

Graves cost us a high 2nd+Maltsev. Im not paying a 1st+ for a two year rental 'til Luke takes over 2LD and now I got a 4m+ contract on my third pair with plenty of AHL LD

FA or Graves on a short deal are the only realistic options, outside raking over a desperate or dumb GM. I doubt Fitz is willing to move back to back to back 1sts fresh out of a rebuild

After his previous moves I trust Fitz to find another gem like he did with Seigs and Marino.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Itll be pretty challenging to find a LHD in trade; this isnt a rebuilding, 'we can eat cap space' type team anymore

Graves cost us a high 2nd+Maltsev. Im not paying a 1st+ for a two year rental 'til Luke takes over 2LD and now I got a 4m+ contract on my third pair with plenty of AHL LD

FA or Graves on a short deal are the only realistic options, outside raking over a desperate or dumb GM. I doubt Fitz is willing to move back to back to back 1sts fresh out of a rebuild

There's gonna be desperate GMs this summer. There were last summer (thanks Pittsburgh), and the cap (currently) isn't expected to jump.

 

[Forge]

Itll be pretty challenging to find a LHD in trade; this isnt a rebuilding, 'we can eat cap space' type team anymore

Graves cost us a high 2nd+Maltsev. Im not paying a 1st+ for a two year rental 'til Luke takes over 2LD and now I got a 4m+ contract on my third pair with plenty of AHL LD

FA or Graves on a short deal are the only realistic options, outside raking over a desperate or dumb GM. I doubt Fitz is willing to move back to back to back 1sts fresh out of a rebuild

Depends on how high you're shooting.

I think between Siegs, Hughes, Bahl and Smith, we are fine for now on the left side. If it doesn't meet expectations, third pairing LHD aren't that hard to find. 2nd pairing guys may be a little more challenging, ,but certainly not impossible as a rental.

 

[NHL Fanatik]

I've never for a second thought that Graves was going to be back after this season.

Im actually thinking we can get him on a three year deal to bribg the aav down to 4-4.5

 

[Forge]

Im actually thinking we can get him on a three year deal to bribg the aav down to 4-4.5

I don't know why either party does that (from the devils perspective its a good price point, but you have to make the jump at some point, so seems to be superfluous spending).

It'd be a very weird move for Graves.

 

[NHL Fanatik]

After his previous moves I trust Fitz to find another gem like he did with Seigs and Marino.

Siegs was a shot in the dark and Marino a cap dump by the most desperate GM in hockey

Thats really hard to replicate

 

[MasterofGrond]

I mean, I'd sign Graves to a 4x3 if he were gonna sign it with no NTC lol.

He won't though, he's gonna get more for more years than that.

 

[NHL Fanatik]

I don't know why either party does that (from the devils perspective its a good price point, but you have to make the jump at some point, so seems to be superfluous spending).

It'd be a very weird move for Graves.

Graves only makes 3.125, a jump to 4.5x3 would basicallu equate to 4x4 on the market and idrt anyones offering more than that in years

Plus im just convinced he loves it here same as Damon but with a spot available

There's gonna be desperate GMs this summer. There were last summer (thanks Pittsburgh), and the cap (currently) isn't expected to jump.

But we cant eat that cap said desperate GMs are dumping without a 1st, which would be our third straight 1st in a trade

Can we really afford no 1st round pick until 2026?? And for a two year rental dman?

 

[MasterofGrond]

But we cant eat that cap said desperate GMs are dumping without a 1st, which would be our third straight 1st in a trade

Can we really afford no 1st round pick until 2026??

Why are we trading a first here? The idea behind the GMs wanting to move players is that they will most likely not be requiring a first for a guy with a year or two left?

 

[NHL Fanatik]

Why are we trading a first here? The idea behind the GMs wanting to move players is that they will most likely not be requiring a first for a guy with a year or two left?

Because you traded a high 2nd+ for Graves; a 1st is going to be the base price for any defenseman worth adding to a contender. And Luke will replace them in two years

We arent 26th place anymore - 1sts are going to be our most asked-for piece going forward

 

[Forge]

Graves only makes 3.125, a jump to 4.5x3 would basicallu equate to 4x4 on the market and idrt anyones offering more than that in years

Plus im just convinced he loves it here same as Damon but with a spot available

You doubt anyone is offering more than that when Ben Chiarot just got 4.75 for 4 and Nick Leddy and Erik Gudbranson each got 4x4?

I have no reason to suspect any of them is taking a haircut to stay here and I think that's bad process to start there when talking about keeping someone around. Some do it, sure, but at the same time that is still more the exception than the rule.

 

[NHL Fanatik]

If your parameters for a dman are;

-must have 2-3 years left
-must be #4 or better
-must have a cap under 5m

Then based on how many today fit that criteria, odds are youre moving a 1st for them

 

[MasterofGrond]

Because you traded a high 2nd+ for Graves; a 1st is going to be the base price for any defenseman worth adding to a contender. And Luke will replace them in two years

We arent 26th place anymore - 1sts are going to be our most asked-for piece going forward

Yeah and when a dude is trying to move salary on a 2nd-3rd pairing D man they're not going to get a first. We're looking for a stopgap guy in case Luke needs some time to really cook.

The expectation that that costs a first in the offseason is out of whack.

 

[Forge]

I'm still trying to figure out what the issue is with rolling Siegs / Hughes / Bahl on the left with Brendan Smith as a 7th D?

 

[NHL Fanatik]

You doubt anyone is offering more than that when Ben Chiarot just got 4.75 for 4 and Nick Leddy and Erik Gudbranson each got 4x4?

I have no reason to suspect any of them is taking a haircut to stay here and I think that's bad process to start there when talking about keeping someone around. Some do it, sure, but at the same time that is still more the exception than the rule.

Even if we lose Graves - the odds of finding a lhd under 5m with 2-3 years term whos a #3-4 , and it not costing us a 1st , is going to be extremely difficult I think

Fitz' past three dman trades all cannot be accurately replicated as of today outside sheer luck; I too think Fitz is a wizard but thats just bring unrealistic

You cant always assume your GM will fleece every team

Yeah and when a dude is trying to move salary on a 2nd-3rd pairing D man they're not going to get a first. We're looking for a stopgap guy in case Luke needs some time to really cook.

The expectation that that costs a first in the offseason is out of whack.

Considering ive checked each teams rosters, im not seeing what you think you are

Who is this defenseman fitting all three of our criteria whos just gonna be given to us for less than a late 1st two years out??

 

[Forge]

Even if we lose Graves - the odds of finding a lhd under 5m with 2-3 years term whos a #3-4 , and it not costing us a 1st , is going to be extremely difficult I think

Fitz' past three dman trades all cannot be accurately replicated as of today outside sheer luck; I too think Fitz is a wizard but thats just bring unrealistic

You cant always assume your GM will fleece every team

Why are you trying to find an lhd?

 

[Blackjack]

I'm still trying to figure out what the issue is with rolling Siegs / Hughes / Bahl on the left with Brendan Smith as a 7th D?

There is none. It’s what we should do.

 

[NHL Fanatik]

I'm still trying to figure out what the issue is with rolling Siegs / Hughes / Bahl on the left with Brendan Smith as a 7th D?

Youre going from a top3 team to Bahl Hughes playing 35mins a night?

Thats prettt damn risky lol

 

[Forge]

Youre going from a top3 team to Bahl Hughes playing 35mins a night?

Thats prettt damn risky lol

I'm not going to assume that they fail without giving them a chance. Bahl already looks fine and I have no reason to doubt that Hughes is going to turn out worse than the numerous highly selected dmen that have come in after a couple of years (including his brother)

 

[NHL Fanatik]

I'm not going to assume that they fail without giving them a chance. Bahl already looks fine and I have no reason to doubt that Hughes is going to turn out worse than the numerous highly selected dmen that have come in after a couple of years (including his brother)

Hughes I dont have issue with on the bottom pair, he wont be worse than Smith on most nights

But Bahl has yet to even start ten games in a row for us let alone ever in the top-4; thats a major jump in assumption to think he can top-4 for a season without even as much as a stint there

Tbh thats a much larger leap than me thinking we can get Graves on a three year deal

 

[Devils731]

Youre going from a top3 team to Bahl Hughes playing 35mins a night?

Thats prettt damn risky lol

In a salary cap world some calculated risks end up being taken by necessity.

I think the Devils will look for another veteran defenseman if they let Graves and Severson walk but if the team can’t find good value then they may feel rolling the dice is the best option.

Also, next year, the forwards should be so good that the team should be able to win even with Bahl and Hughes going through some rookie learning periods.

 

[Guttersniped]

If Haula is making a pitch to stay, I’m guessing he’ll make himself cheap enough to stay. He’s turning 32 in 2 days and scored 8 goals in 70 games. A pay cut is a reasonable enough ask.

Tatar is a little harder to gauge. He’s had a burst of production lately and eye-popping underlying stats.

He’s also an undersized 32 year old LW who sat on the shelf until August 5th until we signed him after everything fell through. The older winger market is the softest in UFA by far.

Ruff has commented on how much Tatar appreciates playing a key role on this team. Not getting benched in the playoffs would likely mean something to him. I have a hard time guessing what’s a realistic number with him.

I don’t see Graves getting 6m but it’s a bit tough to see him take a startling team friendly deal at his age considering he’s only had this one 3 year/3.17m deal so far.

 

[Forge]

Hughes I dont have issue with on the bottom pair, he wont be worse than Smith on most nights

But Bahl has yet to even start ten games in a row for us let alone ever in the top-4; thats a major jump in assumption to think he can top-4 for a season without even as much as a stint there

Tbh thats a much larger leap than me thinking we can get Graves on a three year deal

Then we still have Smith who gives you a baseline

You're trying to solve that doesn't exist yet and may never exist