Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

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MB3

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since 12/1, he has 26 points in 29 games....

I feel like you guys just say shit just to say it sometimes. Come on man. He had a slow 3-4 game stretch in mid-December, but otherwise he as been great all year.
I'm a huge Jesper Bratt fan but .89 PPG over a long stretch where he's gotten 1st line minutes with Jack Hughes or Nico Hischier next to him and top-line powerplay minutes isn't the jaw-dropping stat you think it is. Point-per game players are so much more common now. There are close to 50 players in the league producing a point per game this season.
 

TheUnseenHand

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In regard to Bratt I think Jacks sweetheart deal has clouded judgement. That deal was ridiculous and we can't base all future deals on it. I think we need to bring Bratt back and if we don't I don't know how we replace that production. Work Bratt and Meier under the cap and we are looking real spiffy. Especially if Graves is a cool dude and takes a modest deal.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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I knew that was coming. Yes, he’s still collecting points, but you cannot tell me that the Bratt of the last 30 games looks as dynamic or dangerous as the first 20.

I’m not saying he hasn’t been good, but he has the ability to be a gamebreaker, but the consistency just isn’t there yet.

Bratt at ES from the beginning of the season through 12/19:
3rd among NJ forwards in ES points/60
1st among forwards in CF%
3rd among forwards in xGF%

Bratt at ES from 12/20 to present:
2nd among NJ forwards in ES points/60
3rd among forwards in CF%
4th among forwards in xGF%

so yeah, he was definitely better to start the year, but this notion that he has fallen off a cliff is silliness.

I'm a huge Jesper Bratt fan but .89 PPG over a long stretch where he's gotten 1st line minutes with Jack Hughes or Nico Hischier next to him and top-line powerplay minutes isn't the jaw-dropping stat you think it is. Point-per game players are so much more common now. There are close to 50 players in the league producing a point per game this season.

so Jesper Bratt is a top ~50 player in the league? Hmm, glad we agree!


As someone said on the previous page, the criticism this player gets is the weirdest shit to me. I will never understand it.
 

Devs3cups

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I knew that was coming. Yes, he’s still collecting points, but you cannot tell me that the Bratt of the last 30 games looks as dynamic or dangerous as the first 20.

I’m not saying he hasn’t been good, but he has the ability to be a gamebreaker, but the consistency just isn’t there yet.
I love Bratt and I absolutely want him signed at 8-8.5 mil, he’s an integral part of the team.

But I kind of agree. He’s collecting his points and that’s great, but I do notice that he seems a little less dynamic out there. I feel like it’s been a while since he’s taken over a game like we know he can. Doesn’t change my opinion on the player at all though.
 

Nocashstyle

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In regard to Bratt I think Jacks sweetheart deal has clouded judgement. That deal was ridiculous and we can't base all future deals on it. I think we need to bring Bratt back and if we don't I don't know how we replace that production. Work Bratt and Meier under the cap and we are looking real spiffy. Especially if Graves is a cool dude and takes a modest deal.

They need to extend him at any cost, that much is clear. The alternative is much, much worse. However, I also don’t think Bratt will end up being worth “every cent” of whatever contract he signs, but it is what it is. He’s still a top 30 winger right now- no questions asked.
 

JrFischer54

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I understand this is just the opening of our "window", and we all have faith this team will only get better in the next few years. But I really don't understand why people are saying "ahh, this isn't our Cup year" or "I don't have Cup dreams yet" or "it's not our time yet."

This team is currently on pace to finish with 115 points. That would be a franchise record. The team has (knock on wood) gotten relatively great injury luck, and is getting outstanding performances from several players. There's absolutely no guarantee that we'll get a season from Hamilton like this again, or that we'll have a defensive group this deep and this talented again. There's no guarantee that Jack Hughes will have a season this special again.

We're just fans so we can't really change anything about the team, but I'd point to the 2017 New York Yankees as a great example of when things go wrong. Yankee fans were ecstatic, because this "young and talented team" was "far ahead of schedule" and "the future was bright". They were getting excellent production from their home-grown sure-fire superstars Aaron Judge, Gary Sanchez, and Luis Severino. They had the coffers stacked full, along with a top-5 prospect in the entire sport with Gleyber Torres and a top-ranked farm system surrounding him.

When the Yankees balked at a chance to add Justin Verlander, fans said the same thing in unison -- "that's okay! that makes sense. it's not our time yet. we're only going to get better." And when Verlander beat the Yankees twice en route to winning ALCS MVP, even then Yankees fans said "wow! what a ride. we'll be back."

They haven't gotten closer to a World Series than 2017 in the 6 years since. Gary Sanchez was a backup a few years later. Luis Severino never found a way to stay healthy. Gleyber Torres turned out to be an okay, moderately productive player -- but certainly not the superstar shortstop of the future he was a near-lock to be. Clint Frazier was an overwhelmingly useless player that the Yankees white-knuckled until he was out of the league. The rest of the farm system was a bunch of duds that got hugged by the Yankees until all of their value oozed out of them like popping a pimple. Only Aaron Judge kept blossoming into a superstar, but much like hockey a single player can't do it all.

I think the Devils future is bright. I don't think they will face a similar fate as the Yankees, and I don't think they should be reckless with their upper-end prospects like Nemec and Hughes. But I cringe every time I see comments like "oh, I'm not worried about trying for the cup this year. There's plenty of time for that!". Because maybe there is -- but maybe this is the best Devils team we'll see for a long time. It would be an injustice to the players in that locker room and the fans in the Prudential Center if Tommy Fitzgerald doesn't do everything in his power to add reinforcements for this playoff run.

its funny but true i never really thought people on here would be so negative about our chances in the playoffs or so against getting help. i get it the team isn't playing as great as the record seems thats fine make the playoffs and see what happens. improve the team this year and give them a better shot at winning this year never know what next year brings

theres only so many combinations the devils could face but i think the rangers and bruins would be the most trouble. panthers and bolts also but i doubt they would be facing them.
 

Devs3cups

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They need to extend him at any cost, that much is clear. The alternative is much, much worse. However, I also don’t think Bratt will end up being worth “every cent” of whatever contract he signs, but it is what it is. He’s still a top 30 winger right now- no questions asked.
I have absolutely no doubt he’ll be worth 8-8.5 mil. I’d give it to him right now. Hopefully Fitz feels the same.
 
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JrFischer54

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I think it’s all gonna come down to who San Jose believes to have the better package. Waddell mentions in the Athletic article today that Allvin took the Isles Horvat deal because he believed they’d have the best 1st round pick, so hopefully Grier believes Carolina will go farther than us, which could impact his valuation on a trade partner.

to be fair though the islanders are a real toss up to miss the playoffs so that pick is going to be really good compared to other playoff teams. the canes and us is going to be separated by what maybe 5? that late in the first its all a crap shoot
 
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Zajacs Bowl Cut

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its funny but true i never really thought people on here would be so negative about our chances in the playoffs or so against getting help. i get it the team isn't playing as great as the record seems thats fine make the playoffs and see what happens. improve the team this year and give them a better shot at winning this year never know what next year brings

No one is against getting help. I'd trade anything not named Luke or Simon for the RIGHT upgrades (i.e. younger players with term)

However, everyone (but seemingly you) is against trading high-value assets for 30+ year old rentals.

Thats the difference.
 

Incharge1976

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its funny but true i never really thought people on here would be so negative about our chances in the playoffs or so against getting help. i get it the team isn't playing as great as the record seems thats fine make the playoffs and see what happens. improve the team this year and give them a better shot at winning this year never know what next year brings

I don't believe anyone is saying don't improve or we have no chance. There is nothing wrong with saying that they aren't there yet.
 

Nocashstyle

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Bratt at ES from the beginning of the season through 12/19:
3rd among NJ forwards in ES points/60
1st among forwards in CF%
3rd among forwards in xGF%

Bratt at ES from 12/20 to present:
2nd among NJ forwards in ES points/60
3rd among forwards in CF%
4th among forwards in xGF%

so yeah, he was definitely better to start the year, but this notion that he has fallen off a cliff is silliness.

I didn’t indicate that in anyway though. I hope I’m not coming across as some anti-Bratt critic, because I’m not at all. I love Bratt and want him extended. But at the same time, there are some valid criticisms of his game too.
 
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JrFischer54

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No one is against getting help. I'd trade anything not named Luke or Simon for the RIGHT upgrades (i.e. younger players with term)

However, everyone (but seemingly you) is against trading high-value assets for 30+ year old rentals.

Thats the difference.

whats a high valued asset to you?
 

JrFischer54

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I don't believe anyone is saying don't improve or we have no chance. There is nothing wrong with saying that they aren't there yet.

lol i've seen posters want to trade severson at the deadline or blackwood at the deadline lol. but hey i'm not the only one thats mentioned it so i know i'm not alone.
 

Devils731

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I listened to the Podcast.

Some of the extras were:

Confirmation of at least 1 team saying they’d trade for Meier without needing to talk extension with the agent.

They assume once the trade offers are down to a few finalists that the agent will get to discuss contracts with teams.

——————-

So no crazy revelations buts the process is still ongoing.
 

None Shall Pass

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I get some of the Bratt criticism.

He's a smart player with incredible skills. My criticism of him is that if he was like 10% smarter, he'd be an absolute stud like Jack. If he was a little more selfish, instead of doing the stop on a dime with the puck, turn around and go backwards and then pass it move that seems to have infected our team, he'd have a bunch more goals. He has the talent to take over a game, let alone a line he's playing on, but he rarely does.

He's kind of frustrating for me to watch. He's a PPG winger, the microstats are great, so he's good and important and yada yada, I just think he could be more.
 

JrFischer54

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our first round pick or any of our top prospects

I am not trading that for a 30+ year old rental. We aren't in that position as a franchise to be doing things like that. Yet.

i figured as much with the first. for the record i've never said anything about moving top prospects for rentals but i would absolutely move the first for the right vet over 30. i dont care about the rental status as much as other people on here do.
 

NjDevsRR

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049B4581-E386-4D28-A6F2-AED3927D8186.jpeg
 

JrFischer54

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I listened to the Podcast.

Some of the extras were:

Confirmation of at least 1 team saying they’d trade for Meier without needing to talk extension with the agent.

They assume once the trade offers are down to a few finalists that the agent will get to discuss contracts with teams.

——————-

So no crazy revelations buts the process is still ongoing.

absolutely fine making the trade without an extension it will drive the price down lower not much but def lower.
 

Nocashstyle

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I have absolutely no doubt he’ll be worth 8-8.5 mil. I’d give it to him right now. Hopefully Fitz feels the same.

I just think it’s difficult for anyone, besides the elite of the elite players, to end up really being worth every penny of a massive 7 or 8 year deal. Jack, absolutely, but him and his contract are complete outliers. But if Bratt signs an 8 year extension, he’ll only be 32 when it expires…and with the cap increasing, he very well could be worth every penny. We’ll see. I’d be thrilled if that’s the case.
 
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