Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Nocashstyle]

I really don’t understand the Brunette discourse. Some act like losing him sent the organization into a total spiral and he would have had this team winning the President’s Trophy. At the end of the day, is he a better coach than Ruff right now? Yes, probably. Green? Obviously. Maybeeee Brunette’s coaching decisions would have won a few more games and the team just scrapes into the playoffs. Maybe not though. He would have had the same goaltending and injury issues.

His PP last year was pretty pedestrian compared to how well the team was clicking otherwise.

Had the Preds not went on their “heater” this year, they would miss the playoffs too. Ruff benefitted from the same thing last year - but even then probably would have made the playoffs without it. No one here is arguing Ruff was a great coach.

A lot of the starrey-eyeed dreaming about Brunnette is more about “what if” than the impact he realistically would have had IMO.

 

[Devils Trap]

i am with you, but i just dont know how to put that on fitz - and i am not fitz apologist by any means whatsoever. the coach wouldnt have gotten fired anywhere in the league after leading the team to its best regular season in franchise history.

I agree that its not Fitz fault per say but looking back at it now its a horrific miss.

I really don’t understand the Brunette discourse. Some act like losing him sent the organization into a total spiral and he would have had this team winning the President’s Trophy. At the end of the day, is he a better coach than Ruff right now? Yes, probably. Green? Obviously. Maybeeee Brunette’s coaching decisions would have won a few more games and the team just scrapes into the playoffs. Maybe not though. He would have had the same goaltending and injury issues.

His PP last year was pretty pedestrian compared to how well the team was clicking otherwise.

Had the Preds not went on their “heater” this year, they would miss the playoffs too. Ruff benefitted from the same thing last year - but even then probably would have made the playoffs without it. No one here is arguing Ruff was a great coach.

A lot of the starrey-eyeed dreaming about Brunnette is more about “what if” than the impact he realistically would have had IMO.

Saying had they not went on a heater is wild. Like how do you discount a teams not losing in regulation for 20 straight games.

Hes taken a bottom 10-12 roster in the NHL and comfortably made playoffs with them

 

[NJDevs26]

i am with you, but i just dont know how to put that on fitz - and i am not fitz apologist by any means whatsoever. the coach wouldnt have gotten fired anywhere in the league after leading the team to its best regular season in franchise history.

Yeah the only way you can put that on Fitz is if you think Brunette should have been hired after Lindy's SECOND season. I'm sure a lot of fans felt that way given the cheers Brunette got on Opening Night just before the infamous boos and Fire Lindy chants lol...but like Bleed I think said earlier they'd basically already promised Lindy publicly he'd get a third season by the time Brunette was let go in Florida.

I know people parrot the 'you have to make tough decisions' nonsense as some justification for firing Lindy after last year, as if that kind of decision ever gets made. The Caps lowballed Barry Trotz after winning the Cup, how's that tough choice working out for them?

 

[Devils Trap]

I think some of my worry would be that visually we could see an impact to team cohesion, forecheck, and neutral zone play last year compared to all other Ruff years; could Devils management not see it? Or couldn’t properly attribute the positives to? Either would be concerning.

Adding to that, we saw how awful the team was playing this season but management and coaches kept saying the system was fine and it was all the players. Then the team made small tweaks after like 60 games, which didn’t address a lot of the teams problems.

So those 2 items leave me concerned that management isn’t doing a good enough job understanding the team’s play. I believe theyre smart and I know they experienced but those are 2 things that are red flags to the job they’re doing with coaches.

I think the org gave WAY to much leeway due to injuries. While its a valid concern I think they over emphasized it and it burned them bad.

 

[NJDevs26]

I agree that its not Fitz fault per say but looking back at it now its a horrific miss.


Saying had they not went on a heater is wild. Like how do you discount a teams not losing in regulation for 20 straight games.

Hes taken a bottom 10-12 roster in the NHL and comfortably made playoffs with them

The same 'bottom 10-12 roster' that had 92 points last year and improved to a whopping 94 this year with four games left? The narrative he's done something with nothing in Nashville is wild, especially considering their consistency as an organization for two decades. People talk like he's doing what Torts is with a rebuilding 65-70 point caliber Flyers team lol

 

[Nocashstyle]

Saying had they not went on a heater is wild. Like how do you discount a teams not losing in regulation for 20 straight games.

Hes taken a bottom 10-12 roster in the NHL and comfortably made playoffs with them

And yet they’re still just in a WC spot. I’m not saying discount everything the Preds have done because of that, but also acting like Brunette is some magic potion is disingenuous. Again, Ruff did that last year? Does anyone here think he was the greatest coach of all time? The point is, without the heater, they’re nowhere near a playoff position which means they weren’t a consistently good team all year either. Brunette deserves credit, but he clearly benefitted from a really hot run. How much of that can we really attribute to him?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

A look into the future:

 

[Bleedred]

The good news is that I don't think finding a coach as Brunette is as hard as finding a coach as bad as Travis Green.

Doug Weight is working as an advisor with the Sharks, Adam Oates does some work as an independent contractor for different NHL players the last I heard.

And there's another ya know guy working for the Islanders ya know.

 

[Guttersniped]

One thing about the assistant coaches though

Both Brunette and Green were “Associate coach” these last two years. I would say the associate coach has more input than just the assistant, which was someone like Recchi or McGill currently. And I’m pretty sure associate coaches make more than a guy that just has the assistant title.

We’ve never had an associate coach before Brunette last year, at least not in title. Not every team does have one.

I wouldn’t be surprised if only about 5 teams or even fewer have one. I know Scott Arniel of Winnipeg has the title of associate coach to Rick Bowness.

John Stevens was Darryl Sutter’s “associate coach” in LA for I think the entire time Sutter was there. He was also an assistant there before Sutter got there and I believe he was even the interim for several games between the Kings firing (I can’t remember who, was it one of the Murray’s?) the head coach and hiring Sutter. He then succeeded Sutter as head coach, which only lasted a little over a year.

Candidates with previous head coach experience, and/or who are in demand, get to be Associates partly because it means more money.

An Associate Coach is getting the Intirim HC job for sure.


There are 6 Associate Coaches now.
Bob Boughner DET (SJS 2019-22)

Phil Housley NYR (BUF 2017-19)

Jack Capuano OTT (NYI 2011-17)

Todd Reirden PIT (WSH 2018-20)

Scott Arniel WPJ (CBJ 2010-12)

Brad Shaw PHI (only a Interim NYI HC when Steve Stirling was fired in 2005-06, but supposedly a fantastic coach, so demand may play a part here)

https://www.nhlcoaches.com/nhl-coaches/

Elite Prospects doesn’t list John Stevens as ever having been Associate Coach. Wikipedia however has the Kings making him an Associate Coach in 2014. (So I got to remember in the future that Elite Prospects isn’t infallible lol.)

Stevens has only been an Assistant since, so previous head coaching experience doesn’t guarantee the Associate title.

Mike Yeo and Todd Richards have just been assistants, but how much demand could there be for them realistically lol.

Other ex-HC who are now Assistants: Joe Sacco, Derek King, Alain Nasreddine, Glen Gulutzan, Trent Yawney, DJ Smith, John McLean, Scott Gordon, Dave Lowry, Jeff Blashill, Guy Boucher, Dominique Ducharme
(Probably missed someone)

Other ex-HC, have been both Associates and Assistants, like Arniel and Kirk Muller.

 

[billingtons ghost]

It's not what I would've done, and I don't think anyone would've supported it at the time, but i think the season was in Jeopardy as soon as Sevs and Graves walked.

Beg for a hometown discount. Tell Sevs he can retire like Daneyko playing for one team, get Graves for a little less than this current contract, and then you have Hughes and or Nemec stepping into bottom pairing sheltered roles, growing their game.

Your transition game instead of these long crossice garbage passes or just trying to lug the pick through four opponents becomes the quick outlets from Sevs and Marino, bc he's not doing heavy lifting of trying to keep the Bahl/Marino pairing afloat. It's amazing the difference to even see DiSimone move the puck better than anyone on our offense bc he gets rid of the puck quickly instead of lugging it.

There'd be fewer blueline turnovers going the other way, more zone clears and less pressure on our subpar gOAliEs from the outset.

If you don't buy into the above, I'm still sure I could sell you that the team wouldn't have quite unraveled as it did when Dougie went down, and Siegenthaler would have been in a better role for him anyway.

Not knocking Luke, Bahl or Nemec at all. If their development next year is due to this year's experience and they haven't learned bad habits or lost confidence, then it will have been worth it to just write this crap off.

But for me, those two were the straw.

Losing some heart in Wood, Zetterlund, Rango, Boqvist and Tatar hurt us worse than expected too

I would have liked Ruff to have coached around it. Recognized the problem and simplified things earlier. But at the end we had personnel problems so allover the ice, it's hard to see how.

 

[theoptimist]

Can I block posts that include the words Tatar, Sharangovich, or Rempe?

 

[Nico Hischier]

I believe in this team they just need a great coach

 

[Devils Trap]

And yet they’re still just in a WC spot. I’m not saying discount everything the Preds have done because of that, but also acting like Brunette is some magic potion is disingenuous. Again, Ruff did that last year? Does anyone here think he was the greatest coach of all time? The point is, without the heater, they’re nowhere near a playoff position which means they weren’t a consistently good team all year either. Brunette deserves credit, but he clearly benefitted from a really hot run. How much of that can we really attribute to him?

How the hell does Brunette luck into three straight seasons of heater's then !? Thats some insane luck.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

The Devils need another superstar forward if they're going to make noise in the postseason in the future.

Get Draisaitl.

Mercer, Holtz, Casey, Daws, whatever else. Do it.

 

[Devils Trap]

The same 'bottom 10-12 roster' that had 92 points last year and improved to a whopping 94 this year with four games left? The narrative he's done something with nothing in Nashville is wild, especially considering their consistency as an organization for two decades. People talk like he's doing what Torts is with a rebuilding 65-70 point caliber Flyers team lol

Sure, and that same bottom 10-12 roster had a (vegas odds) preseason prediction of 85 points this year.

According to Vegas they were the 10th ranked team in the west with +250 odds to make the playoffs pre-season.

He has smashed expectations, he will bring them probably to +15 points above what was expected and comfortably secured them a playoff spot with Tommy Novak, Luke Evangalista and Colton Sissons as their 2nd liners... Those guys have NEVER surpassed 40 points in their lives before this season.

The job he has done is nothing short of remarkable and discrediting him is absurd. And since you bring up the Flyers and Torts, they had a pre-season expected point total of 76.5. The Flyers are currently 7 points above what was expected - The Preds are already 9 points above what was expected so yes he is actually doing an even better then expected job then Torts is with the Preds

The only team with a higher points tally above what was expected is Vancouver and Dallas lol. Edit- and Washington sorry

 

[Nocashstyle]

How the hell does Brunette luck into three straight seasons of heater's then !? Thats some insane luck.

1.) Florida is good. They were good with Brunette. They’re good without Brunette
2.) What exactly are we giving Brunette credit for here? Ruff was the HC. Brunette ran a middle of the pack PP.
3.) All points I already stated in previous posts.

Sure, I’d love if he was still around, but there is this growing mystic of “what if” that supersedes what the actual reality probably would have been.

 

[Bleedred]

The Devils need another superstar forward if they're going to make noise in the postseason in the future.

Get Draisaitl.

Mercer, Holtz, Casey, Daws, whatever else. Do it.

What makes you think he’s available?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The Devils need another superstar forward if they're going to make noise in the postseason in the future.

Get Draisaitl.

Mercer, Holtz, Casey, Daws, whatever else. Do it.

they have 4 great forwards, with 1 elite forward. Not sure how many more teams can even say that.

 

[Goptor]

It's not what I would've done, and I don't think anyone would've supported it at the time, but i think the season was in Jeopardy as soon as Sevs and Graves walked.

Beg for a hometown discount. Tell Sevs he can retire like Daneyko playing for one team, get Graves for a little less than this current contract, and then you have Hughes and or Nemec stepping into bottom pairing sheltered roles, growing their game.

Your transition game instead of these long crossice garbage passes or just trying to lug the pick through four opponents becomes the quick outlets from Sevs and Marino, bc he's not doing heavy lifting of trying to keep the Bahl/Marino pairing afloat. It's amazing the difference to even see DiSimone move the puck better than anyone on our offense bc he gets rid of the puck quickly instead of lugging it.

There'd be fewer blueline turnovers going the other way, more zone clears and less pressure on our subpar gOAliEs from the outset.

If you don't buy into the above, I'm still sure I could sell you that the team wouldn't have quite unraveled as it did when Dougie went down, and Siegenthaler would have been in a better role for him anyway.

Not knocking Luke, Bahl or Nemec at all. If their development next year is due to this year's experience and they haven't learned bad habits or lost confidence, then it will have been worth it to just write this crap off.

But for me, those two were the straw.

Losing some heart in Wood, Zetterlund, Rango, Boqvist and Tatar hurt us worse than expected too

I would have liked Ruff to have coached around it. Recognized the problem and simplified things earlier. But at the end we had personnel problems so allover the ice, it's hard to see how.

Severson was never coming back. Dougie took his offensive minutes and Marino took his defensive minutes.

Players don't want to play in limited roles while also giving up $50mil. He'd never get that money here.

 

[Guttersniped]

It's not what I would've done, and I don't think anyone would've supported it at the time, but i think the season was in Jeopardy as soon as Sevs and Graves walked.

Beg for a hometown discount. Tell Sevs he can retire like Daneyko playing for one team, get Graves for a little less than this current contract, and then you have Hughes and or Nemec stepping into bottom pairing sheltered roles, growing their game.

Your transition game instead of these long crossice garbage passes or just trying to lug the pick through four opponents becomes the quick outlets from Sevs and Marino, bc he's not doing heavy lifting of trying to keep the Bahl/Marino pairing afloat. It's amazing the difference to even see DiSimone move the puck better than anyone on our offense bc he gets rid of the puck quickly instead of lugging it.

There'd be fewer blueline turnovers going the other way, more zone clears and less pressure on our subpar gOAliEs from the outset.

If you don't buy into the above, I'm still sure I could sell you that the team wouldn't have quite unraveled as it did when Dougie went down, and Siegenthaler would have been in a better role for him anyway.

Not knocking Luke, Bahl or Nemec at all. If their development next year is due to this year's experience and they haven't learned bad habits or lost confidence, then it will have been worth it to just write this crap off.

But for me, those two were the straw.

Losing some heart in Wood, Zetterlund, Rango, Boqvist and Tatar hurt us worse than expected too

I would have liked Ruff to have coached around it. Recognized the problem and simplified things earlier. But at the end we had personnel problems so allover the ice, it's hard to see how.

Severson couldn’t work. He was slumming on our 3rd pair. He got 8 years/6.25m from Columbus.

There’s no realistic team discount that works. I liked having him on our team but I didn’t want to keep him with an 8 year deal.

Zero regrets with Severson walking.

Graves got 6 years/4.5m, he already took less to get more term, models had him at 5 years/5m. Him being team friendly is 5 years/4.5m.

I think some posters are unduly harsh on Graves, he was solid for us, but I wouldn’t want to bet on the Graves/Marino pair working for years to come.

Yeah, losing those two, and then Dougie, was tough and made us worse but it doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right choice.

 

[Devils731]

2.) What exactly are we giving Brunette credit for here? Ruff was the HC. Brunette ran a middle of the pack PP.

Forecheck, neutral zone, and defensive gaps I think are the 3 things that looked significantly different the year Brunette was here versus the years he is not. So he should get some credit for that, even if it was a collaborative process; it certainly appears from the outside he had a large and effective voice in those matters.

General cohesion too, the way the systems flowed from zone to zone but that’s tougher to peg down the “why” of it all.

 

[Devils Trap]

The Devils need another superstar forward if they're going to make noise in the postseason in the future.

Get Draisaitl.

Mercer, Holtz, Casey, Daws, whatever else. Do it.

If you think that package gets you even remotely close to Draisaitl lol. Not to mention he isnt leaving EDM

It starts with Bratt, Nemec, Luke Hughes etc and you need to add ALOT

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

I will say, losing Brunette is probably the single worst thing Fitz has done in his tenure here.

In the last 3 season he has:
- Led a presidents trophy winning team
- Been behind the bench with a team who set their best regular season record ever
- Taken a mediocre roster to comfortably make the playoffs and make finish with 100+ points which NO ONE expected.

He clearly had a MASSIVE positive impact on this roster because its not luck when everywhere you go those teams have unreal seasons.

Apparently Florida has more mature/talented players than NJ. They went to the Cup Finals the year after Brunette left. No Post Traumatic Brunette Exodus Syndrome there

 

[Rhodes 81]

I remain always of the opinion that there are 3-4 coaches that truly make any team they coach better and another 3-4 that actually make their teams worse. Everyone else is just a function of the talent on their roster, how much that talent meshes with the coach's desired style of play, and goaltending.

DeBoer is a great example of this, he consistently has his teams perform very well when you would expect them to, and has quickly been run out of town when the talent/goaltending dries up. He's done that for 4 different franchises and is mid-stream on a fifth by 55. I don't think many around here would be clamoring for him if he were on the market. Now look around the league and ask yourself how many coaches have better track records than him?

Maybe Brunette is really one of the 3-4 guys, but it's a lot more likely that he's one of those in the middle instead. I have no doubt he would be a solid coach for this team but I'm not going to believe it would have been smooth sailing if we had kicked Ruff out and made him the HC, which was the only other option (and don't pretend that the optics there wouldn't have mattered to important people around the league in the future).

For this coaching search, the most important factor for success is finding someone whose system will match our personnel. Providing goaltending that doesn't tank 35% of games off the bat would be a bonus.

 

[Devils Trap]

Apparently Florida has more mature/talented players than NJ. They went to the Cup Finals the ear after Brunette left. No Post Traumatic Brunette Exodus Syndrome there

I mean Florida was also 1 Pittsburgh Penguins win vs either CBJ or CHI at home from missing altogether...

They snuck in barely last season and nearly missed before going on the insane playoff run