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Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

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No matter how pessimistic you are, myself included, I've said this team has the pieces to be a very good contender. You have every big piece you possibly need, it's just trimming the fat and getting a coach who doesn't have their thumb up their ass which should be pretty easy considering the building blocks this team has. Also yeah, they lost the injury and goaltending excuse with what they've done the past month + what Daws gave them before his body broke down. No average goalie is doing anything in this system and every elite goalie is looking mediocre with how the defense has regressed mainly Siegs and Marino
 
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JimEIV said:
I was trying to be positive last night...truth be told I don't think it's just injuries... because if it was "just injuries". The team has been healthy enough at various points recently to respond and make up ground. There is little excuse for what we've seen against Pittsburgh and Buffalo in the last two games...and Ottawa, Arizona, LA and Anaheim before that.

At some point you have to question the heart of the players that are supposed to be leaders. This team doesn't have a lot of determination, will...or even that "extra gear". The team is sterile and soft. There is no fight in this team...it either goes well for them or doesn't...and if it doesn't no big deal.

It's sickening to watch. The narrative was "lack of confidence" was because of goaltending....then they got goaltending and still played in the same "I don't give a f***" manner.

I guess we'll be looking for a coach that has the ability to give the Tinman a heart?
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They lost the Lindy excuse, this core has to nut up now. Beyond tired of them being this mentally soft team. Not only did they have a chance to rectify the Buffalo loss but it happened in the same exact manner and they STILL blew it
 
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JimEIV said:
I was trying to be positive last night...truth be told I don't think it's just injuries... because if it was "just injuries". The team has been healthy enough at various points recently to respond and make up ground. There is little excuse for what we've seen against Pittsburgh and Buffalo in the last two games...and Ottawa, Arizona, LA and Anaheim before that.

At some point you have to question the heart of the players that are supposed to be leaders. This team doesn't have a lot of determination, will...or even that "extra gear". The team is sterile and soft. There is no fight in this team...it either goes well for them or doesn't...and if it doesn't no big deal.

It's sickening to watch. The narrative was "lack of confidence" was because of goaltending....then they got goaltending and still played in the same "I don't give a f***" manner.

I guess we'll be looking for a coach that has the ability to give the Tinman a heart?
Click to expand...
this is the most physically and mentally soft devils team in quite some time, if not ever. it’s not just injuries and it’s not just goaltending, they just have no will to win and no confidence.
 
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Ideally Mercer comes back next year and takes back a spot in the top 6 but I'm not exactly confident in that. It would suck to dumpster dive for Jack and Bratt's winger for the next decade like the Pens did with Sid for all of those years but we might have to after the Meier style fit with Jack burned in our faces. Duclair would be the guy I look at in UFA for Jack/Bratt. Sprong too, you need a pill shooter with those 2 + who can skate/somewhat create on their own as well.
 
ZachaFlockaFlame said:
They lost the Lindy excuse, this core has to nut up now. Beyond tired of them being this mentally soft team. Not only did they have a chance to rectify the Buffalo loss but it happened in the same exact manner and they STILL blew it
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They didn’t lose the excuse that bad coaching is killing them.

The new coach came in and said they’re going to keep all the major tenets of their system…the system that is awful and I don’t believe the players trust.

It wasn’t Lindy Ruff the man people wanted gone, it was the Lindy Ruff system of hockey. They got rid of the man and kept the system.
 
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ZachaFlockaFlame said:
They lost the Lindy excuse, this core has to nut up now. Beyond tired of them being this mentally soft team. Not only did they have a chance to rectify the Buffalo loss but it happened in the same exact manner and they STILL blew it
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For me looking at those winnable games in the last 20 is the hard pill to swallow...we didn't just lose those games in hard fought battles, we rolled over in most of those losses.

You let Arizona roll you 4-1 when you need points desperately? I don't know?
 
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Devils731 said:
They didn’t lose the excuse that bad coaching is killing them.

The new coach came in and said they’re going to keep all the major tenets of their system…the system that is awful and I don’t believe the players trust.

It wasn’t Lindy Ruff the man people wanted gone, it was the Lindy Ruff system of hockey. They got rid of the man and kept the system.
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Which it's on Fitz again for waiting as long as he did, it was a mercy firing through and through. They had no care to actual fix this team's season specifically, which I'm personally fine with since they're a legit bad team. And you're right, but at the same time, there should've been tweaks to avoid the same bullshit that was happening under Lindy. If they can't be assed to do that as a coaching staff then why are we watching at all till the end of the year

JimEIV said:
For me looking at those winnable games in the last 20 is the hard pill to swallow...we didn't just lose those games in hard fought battles, we rolled over in most of those losses.

You let Arizona roll you 4-1 when you need points desperately? I don't know?
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There's a multitude of losses that you can point to, the most disheartening stretch imo was probably early March to St Patty's Day v Vegas. They got, what, 2 wins in 2 week stretch? They moderately go on a run there and they legit make the playoffs probably. But you could tell they were just mentally out of it and thought their season was cooked. The Jack waiving his hand to signal an extra attacker v LAK was when I knew this team didn't have the stones to do anything this year.
 
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ZachaFlockaFlame said:
Pass, he won't let Jack roam to the extent he needs to. Hischier would flourish would under Berube probably though
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Sullivan wouldn't either. Crosby and Malkin are the only ones who get a pass because of their career stature.

The Devils need a hard-ass coach now. Berube can be tough and create structure, but also showed a lot of flexibility in playstyles. He transitioned from a heavy, forecheck-based, OZP offense to a predominantly East-West rush-based offense with the Thomas/Kyrou core.
 
bossram said:
Sullivan wouldn't either. Crosby and Malkin are the only ones who get a pass because of their career stature.

The Devils need a hard-ass coach now. Berube can be tough and create structure, but also showed a lot of flexibility in playstyles. He transitioned from a heavy, forecheck-based, OZP offense to a predominantly East-West rush-based offense with the Thomas/Kyrou core.
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I think my allure to Sullivan is what he's done with Pens rosters when they've been missing guys. It was a whole argument here about how coaches should be able to mend and get wins out of good rosters regardless what happens, I think if. you put Sullivan on this NJ team this year and they're probably making the playoffs since he finds a way to eek out wins when Jack/Nico were out by switching up the system to be more defensive. My whole thing with Berube is that how much of his success was getting one of the greatest goaltending runs in the sport's history, arguably greatest run ever.
 
ZachaFlockaFlame said:
Pass, he won't let Jack roam to the extent he needs to. Hischier would flourish would under Berube probably though
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You guys have a very low opinion of Jack if you think a coach teaching him more responsibility is going to destroy his game and you assume every coach who demands stuff from players is a meathead who's a one-trick pony. Ovechkin needed Trotz to win, Kovalchuk needed Lemaire though that happened too late in his career (and for too little of it) for him to meaningfully change his legacy.

Are we trying to win games or score goals? To a degree I think the players are falling into that trap too, more worried about goalscoring than winning.
 
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ZachaFlockaFlame said:
No matter how pessimistic you are, myself included, I've said this team has the pieces to be a very good contender. You have every big piece you possibly need, it's just trimming the fat and getting a coach who doesn't have their thumb up their ass which should be pretty easy considering the building blocks this team has. Also yeah, they lost the injury and goaltending excuse with what they've done the past month + what Daws gave them before his body broke down. No average goalie is doing anything in this system and every elite goalie is looking mediocre with how the defense has regressed mainly Siegs and Marino
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This offseason almost feels like we'll see shades of the 2017 offseason, where Shero weeded out the guys he thought weren't giving it their all and cleared out a lot of the deadweight.

It was mainly DSP and Cammalleri that offseason. Not sure who it will be this year. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets rid of one of Siegs/Marino though.

Seigs has 4 more years left, Marino has 3 more years left. Neither is at a very high cap hit, but they also aren't nothing either.

I could see Fitz trying to dump one of them as a cap dump and using their money + some to get somebody better.

I'd just about guarantee we've seen the last of Smith whenever this season ends, despite people probably being skeptical of that due to how much he's used.

Travis Green needs to be as far away from this team as possible. I blame him for a lot of the offensive/5 on 5 struggles even before he became head coach.

The team has HORRIBLY REGRESSED under him, even with much improved goaltending than what Ruff was getting from bum Vitek and the kids before Green became head coach. And that's also reflecting in the record, unlike when Blackwood's run in 2020 bought us and Nas some wins. We've lost points in the time we swapped Lindy with Green and if we had Vitek still here I'm sure we'd be like 3-11-0 or 4-10-0 or 3-10-1 with Green.
 
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NJDevs26 said:
You guys have a very low opinion of Jack if you think a coach teaching him more responsibility is going to destroy his game. Ovechkin needed Trotz to win, Kovalchuk needed Lemaire though that happened too late in his career.

Are we trying to win games or score goals? To a degree I think the players are falling into that trap too, more worried about goalscoring than winning.
Click to expand...

No he needs to be more responsible, I'm just worried a Berube type would make him into Islanders Barzal which would be DEFCON level bad. Also you're ignoring the fact those two guys are wingers as well. Centers have way more responsibilities, I don't want Jack rushing back into the zone like a mad man every damn shift to where he can't carry his line going the other way. Checks and balances

SteveCangialosi123 said:
Strong defensive play. Palat-Nico-Bratt also has created the second most xGs per 60 in the entire NHL. The whole league. 3rd in the league in real goals per 60 (minimum 200 minutes).
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That would make sense if Nico didn't look the part with Timo/Bratt recently, they need to figure out if Jack is a center or wing long term. I assume he goes back to center after his shoulder is repaired in the summer but who tf knows lol. Palat needs to be on the third line to start next year
 
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NJDevs26 said:
You guys have a very low opinion of Jack if you think a coach teaching him more responsibility is going to destroy his game and you assume every coach who demands stuff from players is a meathead who's a one-trick pony. Ovechkin needed Trotz to win, Kovalchuk needed Lemaire though that happened too late in his career (and for too little of it) for him to meaningfully change his legacy.

Are we trying to win games or score goals? To a degree I think the players are falling into that trap too, more worried about goalscoring than winning.
Click to expand...
100% in agreement.

But I will say I absolutely 100% believe that we have fans that rather see Jack put up 150 points than win games.
 
It has nothing to do with Jack's point totals going down lmao, it has everything to do with teaching him defense so much that you completely destroy his game breaking ability from a mental aspect that when times come and they need a game breaker that he can't do it anymore. I use the Barzal example because that's the closest thing I can think of. The Islanders would be in a way better spot right now if they had Barzal just run around and play his 17-18 game with slight defense versus turning him into a 2 way center and he can't game break anymore like he once did. I've been on record saying that he needs a Ovechkin epiphany for this team to win a Cup, a Barzal neutering and we're never coming close to a Cup with this core.
 
ZachaFlockaFlame said:
No he needs to be more responsible, I'm just worried a Berube type would make him into Islanders Barzal which would be DEFCON level bad.
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Jack is miles ahead of Barzal (and always has been). Barzal's issue is that he can't score goals. I don't care who the coach is next year, if Jack can stay healthy for 75+ games, he is going to score 40 goals. He is looking so electric while being so shitty.
 
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Triumph said:
Jack is miles ahead of Barzal (and always has been). Barzal's issue is that he can't score goals. I don't care who the coach is next year, if Jack can stay healthy for 75+ games, he is going to score 40 goals. He is looking so electric while being so shitty.
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I agree but I'm saying the people who want Jack to become responsible 100%, you live with your superstar making mistakes. You don't just make them of a shell of what they once were for the sake of winning because that's gonna be a recipe for disaster. I'd also argue that Jack's mental lapses and lazy play is very low on the tiers of what I care about coming out of this year.
 
Jack is clearly hurt and avoiding most of all contact. I don't get why he is even still playing TBH.

There was a play last night (I think while we still had the lead or tied) where Jack just jumps away from the contact and loses the puck battle in corner by default. I mean it wasnt even a battle he just skated in 5050 battle with the guy and bailed completely as it went to corner and let the other guy take the puck. That is part of an issue. Maybe a small one because Jack can make that up easily elsewhere in his game, but it is a problem overall.

Hard to say how much that has been influencing the losing stuff here but I don't get why he is still playing injured. No faceoffs barely any practice etc. Shit makes no sense. And that is on coaching and GM.
 
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JimEIV said:
100% in agreement.

But I will say I absolutely 100% believe that we have fans that rather see Jack put up 150 points than win games.
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I don't think even fans are that nuts...I do think some fans think our only chance of winning IS Jack putting up 150 points. or remaining one-dimensional.

ZachaFlockaFlame said:
I agree but I'm saying the people who want Jack to become responsible 100%, you live with your superstar making mistakes. You don't just make them of a shell of what they once were for the sake of winning because that's gonna be a recipe for disaster. I'd also argue that Jack's mental lapses and lazy play is very low on the tiers of what I care about coming out of this year.
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Jack's had five seasons of 'roaming around'...how much longer does he get to do so before we figure out, oh he needs to learn more than just that before the TEAM can have sustainable success? For starters, dude still needs Haula or whomever stapled to him cause he isn't good at faceoffs, this was a thing last year before his mystery injury this year. And the fact that Jack's play off the puck has gotten worse the last few months is a red flag tbh, injury or no injury.
 
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