Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[NJDevils17]

Ideally, you want to role with something like (not perfect but close to):

XXX-Hischier-Meier
Palat-Hughes-Bratt
Mercer-Haula-Holtz
XXX-Lazar-Foote/XXX

XXX-Hamilton
Hughes-Nemec
Bahl/Hatakka/Misyul-Marino

XXX
Allen

So the biggest needs are filling a top-six wing spot (Chandler Stephenson?)

Finding bottom six depth that has some level of competence (Duclair as a pure offensive talent?)

A top four LD. I think you move Siegs out in some deal anyway but there needs to be an add here with how poorly he and Marino have shown. I think Bahl can play 6D minutes and we have Hatakka, Misyul, etc.

 

[JimEIV]

MM was a core player. I remember the advanced stats gurus saying he sucked. Here you go.

The motivation of playing for his life might have had something to do with it.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Yup all the guys who left suck and all their replacements are better and that's why we're going to have 30 less points this season and watching Daly turnover cards with great anticipation in a few weeks

We've been over this (repeatedly). You can lose guys, replace them with better players, and still be way worse. Because unless you replaced your whole f***ing roster, you have a bunch of carryovers who can be worse.

Dougie: out all year after one of the best defenseman seasons in Devils history
Siegs: Hurt, forgot how to play
Marino: replaced by an evil twin who has never played hockey before
Jack: Hurt, still hurt, clearly spent most of the year playing at like 60%
Mercer: almost as bad as Marino
Timo: Actively bad for most of the year (Ruff's fault)

The only guy who has been better than last year was Bratt, really. Nico has been good, but he was also good last year.

MM was a core player. I remember the advanced stats gurus saying he sucked. Here you go.

He did suck until literally g1 of the playoffs last year. He was great then and honestly very good this year.

But just because he became good doesn't mean he didn't suck when I said he sucked, lol

 

[theoptimist]

His advanced stats this year were out of this world.

I generally watch the games then look at the stats. He was captain material. He fought that Schenider kid in the playoffs when we were getting violated on home ice.

Nico needs 2 way help, badly.

He did suck until literally g1 of the playoff last year. He was great then and honestly very good this year.

But just because he became good doesn't mean he didn't suck when I said he sucked, lol

We're not in the playoffs any year without McLeod. He was good in 21-22 too. I'm glad he got the Game 7 GWG last season. Unfortunate the way things turned out for the team.

 

[TrufleShufle]

He did suck until literally g1 of the playoffs last year. He was great then and honestly very good this year.

But just because he became good doesn't mean he didn't suck when I said he sucked, lol

He didn't suck, he sucked to us in the same way Holtz sucks, "wasted pick." But in reality, even before he turned it on, if he was just some bargain bin grab like Lazar, we would have been much higher on him as a group. Same thing with Zacha, and same thing will happen with Holtz if he becomes a staple middle 6 guy who just can't cut it on the top line, but is still productive.

 

[Bleedred]

There’s no need to talk much about a player that will never play in the league again. And shouldn’t play in any league other than a prison street hockey one, but I’m highly skeptical that player was really as good as he played this year, and I was dreading the extension he was going to get because of it.

I’m not convinced it wasn’t just a one-off up year, and that he wasn’t gonna just normally be a pretty good 4th line center, but he was probably staring at a pretty decent contract while still being a question mark. In an alternative universe where he’s everything but the sick, worthless, disgusting monster posing as a human that he is.

Can you imagine paying him $3-$4 million per for the next 2-4 years and he reverts to the player he has been for most of his career or something much closer to that than what he was this year?

 

[JimEIV]

The takes here to dismiss what actually happened are astronomical.

 

[MasterofGrond]

I generally watch the games then look at the stats. He was captain material. He fought that Schenider kid in the playoffs when we were getting violated on home ice.

Nico needs 2 way help, badly.



We're not in the playoffs any year without McLeod. He was good in 21-22 too. I'm glad he got the Game 7 GWG last season. Unfortunate the way things turned out for the team.

We're not in the playoffs last year without McLeod is maybe the wildest take I've ever heard on this board.

He was bad last season. Not terrible, but like average 4th liner bad. He scored 4 regular season goals and wasn't actually very good defensively. The Devils won 52 games last year, lmao.

 

[Guadana]

Ideally, you want to role with something like (not perfect but close to):

XXX-Hischier-Meier
Palat-Hughes-Bratt
Mercer-Haula-Holtz
XXX-Lazar-Foote/XXX

XXX-Hamilton
Hughes-Nemec
Bahl/Hatakka/Misyul-Marino

XXX
Allen

So the biggest needs are filling a top-six wing spot (Chandler Stephenson?)

Finding bottom six depth that has some level of competence (Duclair as a pure offensive talent?)

A top four LD. I think you move Siegs out in some deal anyway but there needs to be an add here with how poorly he and Marino have shown. I think Bahl can play 6D minutes and we have Hatakka, Misyul, etc.

3C/2LW Henrique, middle six LW Noesen, 4LW Trenin, top-4 LD Dumolin, 1A/1B G Kahkonen/Lankinen.

 

[Devils Trap]

My #1 Ideal Offseason is as follows:

#1) Holtz, 2025 1st, Prospect (Whatever is needed) for Ullmark
#2) Sign Chandler Stepheson (5.25 Mil AAV)
#3) Get Talented Grit Players - (Zadorov 3.5 Mil AVV / Joshua 2.5 Mil AAV / Trenin)


I have no idea about UFA contracts, I may have under shot it but this roster has 1.9 million AAV to spare.

 

[MasterofGrond]

He didn't suck, he sucked to us in the same way Holtz sucks, "wasted pick." But in reality, even before he turned it on, if he was just some bargain bin grab like Lazar, we would have been much higher on him as a group. Same thing with Zacha, and same thing will happen with Holtz if he becomes a staple middle 6 guy who just can't cut it on the top line, but is still productive.

No, he sucked. He may have gotten screwed a bit (I don't think so, because there wasn't a ton of talent on this squad when he was starting, but I'm not gonna argue too hard if that's your take), but it's not like he was a good 3rd line guy who I was disappointed in.

He was an alright 4th line center. He was way more this year, but he still wasn't winning us games on the ice prior to the playoffs last year.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Yeah, I'm all aboard bringing in Chandler Stephenson somehow next year. He'd be a great add.

 

[theoptimist]

We're not in the playoffs last year without McLeod is maybe the wildest take I've ever heard on this board.

He was bad last season. Not terrible, but like average 4th liner bad. He scored 4 regular season goals and wasn't actually very good defensively. The Devils won 52 games last year, lmao.

What's wild is posting advanced stats and not being critical of limitations/assumptions. It's also pretty mean to call your shadow 1C bad/terrible. Nico is not Nico without McLeod handling the gritty 5 on 5 minutes.

 

[JimEIV]

We're not in the playoffs last year without McLeod is maybe the wildest take I've ever heard on this board.

He was bad last season. Not terrible, but like average 4th liner bad. He scored 4 regular season goals and wasn't actually very good defensively. The Devils won 52 games last year, lmao.

He wasn't only bad last year he's been bad most of his career....a career that never would've happened if he wasn't such a high a pick....his path would've been AJ Greer if not for being picked 12th with and an 11 overall pick

 

[Guadana]

I would actively consider bringing Brylin down from the press box and putting him in charge. That is, if he’s got the other qualities you need in a head coach - administrative, ability to coach other coaches, authority etc. (since I don’t know Brylin). I would at least think about it anyway.

It’s hard to understand any impact from any coach under Green as HC when players dysmoraled because of what happened this season.

 

[BurntToast]

I felt like Lazar was McLeod’s replacement (not Wood), which is comparable. And Lazar isn’t slow, but not as fast as those two. Nosek and Tierney are traffic cones.

Its hard to keep Wood because he would be too expensive, but he is a unicorn of speed and size. I didn’t mind he ran into a goalie every so often.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I think this team misses Severson's outlet passes a good amount. Not just the crazy stretch pases here and there but just being able to get the puck to our forwards quickly to breakout.

Among other things I'm sure we're missing from last year of course but that one sticks out to me.

And yes I know, I don't need to see Severson's player card compared to Nemec or Luke.

 

[Guadana]

In case of Holtz, may be Fitz will listen smarter men(like me of course, do it now, Fitz, call me, I will tell you how manage this business right from my couch) and will not draft Eiserman this year. Let’s prey. It’s the same circle.

 

[TrufleShufle]

No, he sucked. He may have gotten screwed a bit (I don't think so, because there wasn't a ton of talent on this squad when he was starting, but I'm not gonna argue too hard if that's your take), but it's not like he was a good 3rd line guy who I was disappointed in.

He was an alright 4th line center. He was way more this year, but he still wasn't winning us games on the ice prior to the playoffs last year.

No, I don't think he got screwed, he got put in the bottom 6 and did exactly what was asked of him. You could tell when he got moved up the lineup he would change up his game and look like a drunk Jack. But when he was in his spot, he knew what was needed of him and what wasn't and did it. And did it well.

People downplay the bottom 6 all the time, but most every cup team has a bottom 6 line that 3rd or 4th that gets a lot of credit for being a massive part of the success. He's gone now, and that's perfectly fine given the situation, but we don't need to pretend he wasn't good at his "job."

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

The takes here to dismiss what actually happened are astronomical.

My take is that Miles Wood is not significantly better than Curtiz Lazar. I'm not sure if he's even a better overall player - but for argument's sake - if he is, its not by much. And then throw in the contracts and Lazar absolutely has the better value.

I don't think my thinking is crazy here.

 

[Blackjack]

His advanced stats this year were out of this world.

I don’t know what you’re talking about, never in the history of the league has a bad or marginal player improved in his early 20s.

 

[Guadana]

No, I don't think he got screwed, he got put in the bottom 6 and did exactly what was asked of him. You could tell when he got moved up the lineup he would change up his game and look like a drunk Jack. But when he was in his spot, he knew what was needed of him and what wasn't and did it. And did it well.

People downplay the bottom 6 all the time, but most every cup team has a bottom 6 line that 3rd or 4th that gets a lot of credit for being a massive part of the success. He's gone now, and that's perfectly fine given the situation, but we don't need to pretend he wasn't good at his "job."

I think this team misses Severson's outlet passes a good amount. Not just the crazy stretch pases here and there but just being able to get the puck to our forwards quickly to breakout.

Among other things I'm sure we're missing from last year of course but that one sticks out to me.

And yes I know, I don't need to see Severson's player card compared to Nemec or Luke.

Severson scores 7 goals
Sharangovich scores 13 goals
Wood 13
Graves 8
Tatar 20
Boqvist 10
Dougie 22

Toffoli 26 goals
Tierney 2
Nosek 1
Holtz 14
Nemec 3
Luke 8
Dougie 5

It’s a huge difference. There were no healthy season from Jack, fully healthy season from Nico.Timo scores 19 this year but 9 goals year before.
So depth and injuries is a huge reason.
They could play much easier hockey if they would not let first goal every game. That was on goalies and on defense too. Defense comes from depth and injuries perspective too.

 

[JimEIV]

My take is that Miles Wood is not significantly better than Curtiz Lazar. I'm not sure if he's even a better overall player - but for argument's sake - if he is, its not by much. And then throw in the contracts and Lazar absolutely has the better value.

I don't think my thinking is crazy here.

Miles Wood has 87 goals and 83 assists 498 PIMs in 465 games.

Lazar has 44 goals and 72 assists with 150 PIMs in 516 games....

Lazar was playing AHL games in 2019 and 2020.

Better value? Holy shit

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

My #1 Ideal Offseason is as follows:

#1) Holtz, 2025 1st, Prospect (Whatever is needed) for Ullmark
#2) Sign Chandler Stepheson (5.25 Mil AAV)
#3) Get Talented Grit Players - (Zadorov 3.5 Mil AVV / Joshua 2.5 Mil AAV / Trenin)


I have no idea about UFA contracts, I may have under shot it but this roster has 1.9 million AAV to spare.

View attachment 837779

Trenin seems like he's gonna get a monster deal (relatively speaking). Zadorov too. I think those are substantial underestimates of what they get, those guys will be coveted by every GM.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Ok. Tell the industry, they all must be wrong on him.

View attachment 837703
Appreciate your definitive prospect statements though.

He had some pretty worrying tracked stats earlier in the year. I’m not sure if they improved or not.