Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Better Call Sal]

Take Toffoli out of the mix.

Over the last 25 games we've scored 4 pp goals.

2 by Jack, 1 each from Timo and Nico.

After that initial stretch the PP is without a doubt one of our major issues this season.

And the buffoon running it is now unfortunately running everything.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Take Toffoli out of the mix.

Over the last 25 games we've scored 4 pp goals.

2 by Jack, 1 each from Timo and Nico.

After that initial stretch the PP is without a doubt one of our major issues this season.

It's been worst in the league since Dougie's last game, which is a long long stretch of games. Something like 15%? Maybe less?

 

[Guttersniped]

I'm not pushing any conspiracy. I think there's a severe lack of accountability in this organization. The Hughes brothers, as the two most talented golden boys on the team, are gonna be the most apparent examples of that kind of culture.

I don't think a coach publicly stating that x players will never get benched is a throw-away comment. I don't think I've ever even heard of such a thing being said openly. It's sickening, I have no idea how people think it's ok.

Sorry, this “golden boys” stuff will never not be ridiculous to me.

I believe it was not “benched”, but “scratched”, as in healthy scratched like Nemec was.

And not sure why it’s shocking for big minute players not to get healthy scratched. I guess you never wondered why it never happens to them historically on any team.

And sorry, you are being weird about this, IMO.

 

[Better Call Sal]

These trying times lead to the lamest fan takes imaginable.

My buddy told me that Allen is under “no pressure” to perform because he has a contract for next year so we shouldn’t put a ton of context into this. Now I come here after seeing the strip Nico of the captaincy conversation earlier today to the Hughes brothers are the ones running the team.

My head wants to leave my body and this planet on the next flight as soon as possible.

 

[devilsblood]

It's been worst in the league since Dougie's last game, which is a long long stretch of games. Something like 15%? Maybe less?

I went back to Dec 1st. 18 pp goals for NJ. Tied with CBJ for worst in the league. We've also give up 6 shorties during that span, compared to 2 by CBJ.

Florida leads the league with 46 pp since the start of Dec.

 

[Normal Devil]

It's been worst in the league since Dougie's last game, which is a long long stretch of games. Something like 15%? Maybe less?

Losing Dougie was a major blow to the PP and offense overall. It forced guys into roles that they just are not ready for. It could pay off in future years with the experience they've gained, but it isn't leading to victories at this point.

Biggest things for next year is to get healthy and acquire a true #1 goalie. Oh yeah, need a top head coach and a high quality coaching staff. Probably need another solid DMan and another quality player on the 3rd and 4th line. We could get a big bounce back next year if things break right.

 

[NJDevs26]

I'm assuming it started because he really liked Ruff and people assumed Nico hated him and Jack was the reason he stuck around so long (which is pure speculation) and they have run with it from there.

Well that and the fact they can never bench Luke for even shifts much less games, ever despite the fact he's been TEN times more fatigued than Nemec who got sat immediately on the coaching change. Or take Luke off PP1 despite the fact it SUCKS

 

[MartyOwns]

We need a little more then that. We probably need another top 6 winger so Palat can play on the 3rd line permanently, and a 3rd line winger to keep Lazar on the 4th line.

well yeah everybody needs more. i’m just trying to be realistic, this year the options get pretty grimy once the big fish are gone.

We can lose low event 3-1 or high event 5-3.... either way it's exactly the same.

i look at it like this…using your hypothetical scores, we have the tools to score 5 and the tools to allow 3 (albeit not simultaneously at the moment). we need a better system, tailored for our specific players, and some average goaltending. what happened over the last ten years is irrelevant.

 

[MadDevil]

That's correct, I'm talking about the GM who didn't even hesitate to answer the question specifically about a rookie 4th liner, and the only thing he included about anyone else what a vague general comment that "others also have to be better".

Who are these others specifically? He spent several sentences on the child playing 5 minutes a night but didn't have time to call out players that are supposed to be actual difference makers.

Just because he was asked about Holtz specifically doesn't absolve him of how he handled the question.

And I think it's BS to just handwave his presser like it means nothing. If there's one thig Fitz has always been it's transparent. The presser gave us further insight and context into his mindset, and it wasn't positive.

You're right, any GM worth a damn would spend 15 minutes ripping his entire roster instead of expounding specifically on the one player he was asked about. Jesus Christ you'd think Fitz personally insulted Holtz's entire family the way some people treat it. Oh no, he said mean things like he needs to be better with the puck and away from the puck. What an asshole!

 

[guitarguyvic]

Sorry, this “golden boys” stuff will never not be ridiculous to me.

I believe it was not “benched”, but “scratched”, as in healthy scratched like Nemec was.

And not sure why it’s shocking for big minute players not to get healthy scratched. I guess you never wondered why it never happens to them historically on any team.

And sorry, you are being weird about this, IMO.

What are you talking about? There are loads of examples of big minute players getting benched or even scratched to send a message when a team is in disarray like this one is.

Not to mention that Luke Hughes should not be even considered in such a category. He's a rookie that has been shitting all over himself on the PP for going on like 30+ games now. Yet the staff continues to put him out there like he's Roman Josi or Ray Borque in his prime or some shit.

I also think there's a lot of strawmanning going on. I've seen a couple of posters say management is catering too much to the Hughes, which may be taking it too far, but it's also not the equivalent of saying the Hughes brothers are running the team.

 

[devilsblood]

Well that and the fact they can never bench Luke for even shifts much less games, ever despite the fact he's been TEN times more fatigued than Nemec who got sat immediately on the coaching change. Or take Luke off PP1 despite the fact it SUCKS

I don't think Luke's issue is fatigue.

 

[guitarguyvic]

You're right, any GM worth a damn would spend 15 minutes ripping his entire roster instead of expounding specifically on the one player he was asked about. Jesus Christ you'd think Fitz personally insulted Holtz's entire family the way some people treat it. Oh no, he said mean things like he needs to be better with the puck and away from the puck. What an asshole!

This is so disingenuous. Fitz spent several minutes blasting his goaltenders, both young and old, but taking the opportunity to call out impact skaters on his roster is a bridge too far? Give me a break.

I don't care about Holtz specifically. The point is he unbegrudgingly shit on someone that plays five minutes a game and consciously decided he didn't need to espouse how guys who play real minutes with higher expectations have been dogshit.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I don't think Luke's issue is fatigue.

Think it's a rookie wall issue and we have had rookies in the past who were allowed to play through it despite maybe not being the best idea

 

[Emperoreddy]

I do believe we still need to replace Toffoli next year and we don't have an internal replacement.

But yeah the bottom 6 as a whole needs some rethinking. It's extremely unbalanced and features too many below replacement level scrubs.

 

[Billdo]

Honestly it's just more of the same. Green is doing exactly what Ruff was doing.

It shouldn't be THAT surprising. Green isn't a good coach, he never was, and he was hired by Lindy. The apple isn't falling far from the tree.

 

[NJDevs26]

I don't think Luke's issue is fatigue.

Well it's at least ONE of his issues and Jack's obviously playing injured. But both Hughes just don't play the game very smart either which is irrespective of all that, and I know fans want to wave the pompoms and say great players need to be allowed to make mistakes (never mind Luke hasn't come close to proving he's 'great' yet) but you also have to be somewhat responsible. This is the NHL, not frigging peewee where you can just outtalent the league at will.

 

[Guttersniped]

What are you talking about? There are loads of examples of big minute players getting benched or even scratched to send a message when a team is in disarray like this one is.

Not to mention that Luke Hughes should not be even considered in such a category. He's a rookie that has been shitting all over himself on the PP for going on like 30+ games now. Yet the staff continues to put him out there like he's Roman Josi or Ray Borque in his prime or some shit.

I also think there's a lot of strawmanning going on. I've seen a couple of posters say management is catering too much to the Hughes, which may be taking it too far, but it's also not the equivalent of saying the Hughes brothers are running the team.

1) You keep saying “benched” and that’s not what was even been talked about with Nemec.

2) You’re the one who keeps claiming something Green randomly said is some iron clad rule for the team, I don’t even believe that.

3) Stars getting healthy scratched? There’s not loads of examples of that.

It is common for star players to play even when they’re hampered by injuries and then for some fans to bitch about their performance. Some of those fans even deny the player is actually injured and that their hampered performance is because they don’t care, aren’t competitive, actually suck, etc. I find this a very common phenomenon.

 

[Emperoreddy]

1) You keep saying “benched” and that’s not what was even been talked about with Nemec.

2) You’re the one who keeps claiming something Green randomly said is some iron clad rule for the team, I don’t even believe that.

3) Stars getting healthy scratched? There’s not loads of examples of that.

It is common for star players to play even when they’re hampered by injuries and then for some fans to bitch about their performance. Some of those fans even deny the player is actually injured and that their hampered performance is because they don’t care, aren’t competitive, actually suck, etc. I find this a very common phenomenon.

It happened with Timo this year.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Jack is plenty responsible when he is healthy and on his game. This has been a real step back year for him. He hasn't looked this off since he was a rookie.

 

[Billdo]

So we basically need at least two defenseman, a fourth line, a starting goalie, and a top 6 winger. Oh and an entire coaching staff. Good thing we've got an extra 2.35 mil with Schneider and Kuokkanens buyouts going away. Only one more year of Kovalchuks penalty too.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Jack is plenty responsible when he is healthy and on his game. This has been a real step back year for him. He hasn't looked this off since he was a rookie.

He's obviously playing hurt, you can tell by some of his mistakes, but just as many mistakes are coming from a place of over confidence and underestimating his opponent, just like his rookie year. I'm not sure if last year got him over confident, or playing with Luke is fueling him to play that way, but he's definitely reverted back a bit, really hope whoever the new coach is shakes that out of him, or he does some self evaluating.

 

[Triumph]

Well it's at least ONE of his issues and Jack's obviously playing injured. But both Hughes just don't play the game very smart either which is irrespective of all that, and I know fans want to wave the pompoms and say great players need to be allowed to make mistakes (never mind Luke hasn't come close to proving he's 'great' yet) but you also have to be somewhat responsible. This is the NHL, not frigging peewee where you can just outtalent the league at will.

Luke Hughes clearly has very special talent and part of how his brother learned was by f***ing up a lot. That said, I wish they had a better option at PP1 but Nemec was also atrocious on the PP today. Obviously if Hamilton were healthy, he's promoted and Luke is on the 2nd unit.

Luke reads the play extremely well for a player of his age and is much better than I thought he would be at pretty much all aspects of defense that aren't zone exits. Part of the issue with zone exits is that nobody on the team has any idea what to do, so getting a coach to fix that for the team will also help Luke fix it himself.

 

[Bleedred]

It's been worst in the league since Dougie's last game, which is a long long stretch of games. Something like 15%? Maybe less?

I think it's been 11.7% or something. That was what it showed today.

I can't remember if that's been since the new year or after Dougie went down, but I know we're also 32nd since he went down, so I'm sure it's a similar percentage in that time also.

 

[Emperoreddy]

He's obviously playing hurt, you can tell by some of his mistakes, but just as many mistakes are coming from a place of over confidence and underestimating his opponent, just like his rookie year. I'm not sure if last year got him over confident, or playing with Luke is fueling him to play that way, but he's definitely reverted back a bit, really hope whoever the new coach is shakes that out of him, or he does some self evaluating.

Playing hurt can alter a player's decision making in ways you wouldn't expect. It's hard to adjust to your new limitations and still be effective.

Jack has been poor this season, but he shouldn't he judged long term until we see him next season.

 

[Devs3cups]

Jack will be fine.