Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[My3Sons]

Yes, I don’t really care that much that a British candy is called Minstrels, because they have a tradition of medieval guys in tights with lutes singing about Brave Sir Robin.

I was talking about marketing it in the US, where there’s a very different music tradition associated with that word, and it involves blackface.

But god damn, Minstrels are like crack, I burn through a bag like it’s a fuse. Easily my favorite candy. I’m really better off they don’t sell it here and I’m better off that our domestic chocolate basically blows.

I think my favorite chocolate has been in Belgium. I’ll keep an eye out for minstrels next time we travel to Europe.

 

[Call Me Al]

Yes, I don’t really care that much that a British candy is called Minstrels, because they have a tradition of medieval guys in tights with lutes singing about Brave Sir Robin.

I was talking about marketing it in the US, where there’s a very different music tradition associated with that word, and it involves blackface.

But god damn, Minstrels are like crack, I burn through a bag like it’s a fuse. Easily my favorite candy. I’m really better off they don’t sell it here and I’m better off that our domestic chocolate basically blows.

well well well

Amazon.com

 

[dzubrus8]

Alright I decided to pull the trigger and fly to Vegas for the game tomorrow. Definitely need to win both but if they only win one pls let it be tomorrow!

 

[Call Me Al]

it’s a bit pricey but if you have to scratch the itch

 

[glenwo2]

Alright I decided to pull the trigger and fly to Vegas for the game tomorrow. Definitely need to win both but if they only win one pls let it be tomorrow!

Oh you poor soul....

Hope you enjoy the casinos there 'cause they would be more fun than what you're going to have to endure if it's more of the same with NJ.

 

[dzubrus8]

Oh you poor soul....

Hope you enjoy the casinos there 'cause they would be more fun than what you're going to have to endure if it's more of the same with NJ.

Question is do I emotionally hedge and take VGK?

I went to the Anaheim / LA swing 2 weeks ago so I guess you could say I’m a good luck charm if your goal is to see this team in free fall

 

[glenwo2]

Question is do I emotionally hedge and take VGK?

I went to the Anaheim / LA swing 2 weeks ago so I guess you could say I’m a good luck charm if your goal is to see this team in free fall

I wouldn't bet at all.

Save your money so you can lose it at the Slots.

 

[WPGDEVILS]

He’s 30 and has never played more than 24 games in a season and while he was good during the last regular season for Vegas he was meh in the playoffs. Not sure that he’s the established guy the team wants to add. He is playing well and he has the measurables teams want in a goal

If he can handle the workload is definitely a question but he’s a great goalie, been playing on par with helly all year, I’d rather take the risk with him then trade the house for saros

 

[Guttersniped]

I was going to post this in a response in the GDT but it probably makes more sense here than that shit show (as of the 1st period).

I don’t see Green getting the HC job, unless we get into the playoffs and something shockingly amazing happens. (And good luck with that lol.)

He might possibly keep his AC job though, I believe those jobs are typically for 2 years.

Fitz said this when Ruff was fired link

“For sure he [Green] will be considered at the time,” Fitzgerald said. “I have to look at every possibility that comes my way once the season is over. We don’t know who those people are, experienced coaches are let go and become available. I’m not worried about that right now. I’m worried about today.”

People have suggested Mike Sullivan is guy he’s thinking about here.

Well, here’s an old article that sheds light on the Fitz & Sully connection, and it turns out there’s a lot of history there. A whole lot.

So if Sully gets fired, he’s basically the leading candidate for HC.



June 15, 2017

Pending departures were the theme as the Stanley Cup champion Penguins cleared out their lockers Thursday, but I was more interested in an arrival.

Mike Sullivan’s.

The question of how, precisely, Sullivan found his way into this organization had been a subject of great curiosity (mine, anyway) since he started winning a lot of games midway through the 2015-16 season.

I knew he’d worked with Rick Tocchet and crossed paths with fellow Bostonian Bill Guerin. He knew people in the Penguins organization. But who suggested Sullivan as a replacement for John Hynes in Wilkes-Barre? Who made the first phone call? How did the process play out?

Neither Sullivan nor general manager Jim Rutherford would give me straight answers to those questions last season. It all seemed very mysterious. And it all seems fairly pertinent at the moment, given the fact that Sullivan arguably has become the best coach in the NHL.

He is the first coach since Toe Blake, for goodness' sake, to win Stanley Cups in his first two seasons with a team.

So how did he get here?

The first name you need to know is a name you know already for reasons good and bad. Tom Fitzgerald. His unlikely goal ended the Penguins’ playoff run in 1996. But he helped the Penguins win a Cup as an assistant coach in 2009. He is now an assistant general manager with the New Jersey Devils.

“Sully” and “Fitzy” go waaaay back. They played in the same youth leagues around Boston, then against each other in high school. They took recruiting trips together. Sullivan wound up at Boston University, Fitzgerald at Providence.

The two nearly played together in the NHL when Fitzgerald was named captain of the first-year Nashville Predators, who picked Sullivan in the expansion draft before trading him four days later.

Fitzgerald later played for Sullivan in Boston, during Sully’s brief stint as Bruins coach (so if you’re comparing him to Bill Belichick, which is perfectly appropriate, that was his Cleveland Browns run).

Now fast forward 10 years, to June 2, 2015, the day former Penguins general manager Ray Shero hired Hynes away from Wilkes-Barre to coach the Devils. Rutherford told assistant general manager Jason Botterill he wanted a replacement with NHL experience because he knew he might be firing Mike Johnston early in the season.

Rutherford’s braintrust, including Botterill, Fitzgerald and Guerin, compiled a list of names.

Guerin, when I spoke with him a year ago, said Fitzgerald mentioned Sullivan.

“Tom lives in Boston and has a good relationship with Sully,” Guerin said. “He was the first one to bring the name up.”

Fitzgerald was the first one to call Sullivan, as well. I confirmed as much with Sullivan Thursday.

“It meant a lot to me,” Sullivan said. “We go way back, and I have so much respect for [Fitzgerald]. He’s such a quality person. So, yeah, when he called to gauge my interest, it meant a lot.”

Sullivan had just finished a year as a development coach with the Chicago Blackhawks. He wanted to be a head coach in the NHL again, and the best route was to go back to the AHL.

The Penguins weren’t the only team calling. Some wanted Sullivan as an NHL assistant, others as a minor-league head coach.

“We knew we were in competition,” Fitzgerald recalled earlier this week. “I’d like to think his relationship with me helped, but it was a team effort.”

Fitzgerald added: “I think he’s a way better coach the second time around. He learned from Boston. He matured as a coach. I think he understood players better, the young guys, and he was open to everything. Like, we were really high on Jay Leach as an assistant coach, and Sully didn’t come in saying, ‘No, I want my guy.’ He wasn’t reluctant at all.

“We were lucky to get him, to be honest.”

Fitzgerald and Botterill interviewed Sullivan together and were sufficiently blown away. But they had one other candidate in mind (identity remains a mystery), so Botterill went to Rutherford. Here’s what might have clinched it: Rutherford had met Sullivan exactly one time, by chance, nine years earlier, and he, too, had been sufficiently blown away.

That was June 2006. The Bruins were in the midst of a drawn-out firing of Sullivan, who remembers bumping into Rutherford (then Carolina’s general manager) at an airport.

“We had a good chat,” Sullivan recalled. “But I think Jim probably has a clearer memory of it.”

As usual, Sullivan was right.

“I remember it very well,” Rutherford said. “I told him I thought he’d done a great job in Boston, and I was sorry with the way he was being treated. Something about him stood out.”

Which is why Rutherford’s ears perked nine years later when Botterill mentioned Sullivan as one of the two final candidates to coach Wilkes-Barre (and thus have a real chance to coach the Pittsburgh Penguins sooner rather than later). Rutherford looked at Botterill and said, “I always liked that Mike Sullivan.”

The rest, as they say, is history. And it goes to show that, while the current organization obviously deserves the credit, a championship team always has hidden helpers.

Could be a guy like Fitzgerald (who signed Conor Sheary in his final act as a Penguins executive). Could be a scout like Scott Bell, who fought for drafting Jake Guentzel, or a scout like Brian Fitzgerald (no relation to Tom) who made the case for Bryan Rust.

All kinds of folks have their fingerprints on that Cup, and it wasn’t long after Sullivan took his turn with it Sunday night that his old buddy Tom Fitzgerald checked in with a text message.

“I just said, ‘Mike, you’re cementing your legacy. Congrats again. I’m just so happy for you,’ ” Fitzgerald said.

Sully’s response?

“He was very thankful.”

A lot of other people are, too.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe-starkey/2017/06/16/Penguins-coach-Mike-Sullivan-Jim-Rutherford-Tom-Fitzgerald-Wilkes-Barre-AHL-Boston-Bruins/stories/201706160098

 

[nugg]

Yes, I don’t really care that much that a British candy is called Minstrels, because they have a tradition of medieval guys in tights with lutes singing about Brave Sir Robin.

I was talking about marketing it in the US, where there’s a very different music tradition associated with that word, and it involves blackface.

But god damn, Minstrels are like crack, I burn through a bag like it’s a fuse. Easily my favorite candy. I’m really better off they don’t sell it here and I’m better off that our domestic chocolate basically blows.

Mentioning minstrels, makes me think of Jethro Tull.

 

[britdevil]

In Europe I guess they think of medieval minstrels like the ones that got eaten in Holy Grail?

We definitely had those minstrels too...

 

[My3Sons]

We definitely had those minstrels too...

History is not kind to humanity.

 

[Goptor]

I was going to post this in a response in the GDT but it probably makes more sense here than that shit show (as of the 1st period).

I don’t see Green getting the HC job, unless we get into the playoffs and something shockingly amazing happens. (And good luck with that lol.)

He might possibly keep his AC job though, I believe those jobs are typically for 2 years.

Fitz said this when Ruff was fired link

People have suggested Mike Sullivan is guy he’s thinking about here.

Well, here’s an old article that sheds light on the Fitz & Sully connection, and it turns out there’s a lot of history there. A whole lot.

So if Sully gets fired, he’s basically the leading candidate for HC.


View attachment 837002
June 15, 2017

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe-starkey/2017/06/16/Penguins-coach-Mike-Sullivan-Jim-Rutherford-Tom-Fitzgerald-Wilkes-Barre-AHL-Boston-Bruins/stories/201706160098

It makes too much sense. Good systems guy that had success with a high tempo team with Pit.
He's over-worn out his welcome with the Penguins. I think Crosby likes him and probably the only reason he's stuck around.

As for Green, there is no evidence to suggest he's a positive addition to the team.

 

[ZYXWVUT]

Sullivan isn’t getting fired. I almost guarantee.

Go to Vegas and get Nic Roy for 3C. He’s a beast but they have three centers ahead of him now making >$20 million between Eichel, Karlsson and now Hertl. And if they want any attempt at resigning Marchessault or Stephenson, do they really have the luxury of a $3 million 4C?

 

[Emperoreddy]

Green shouldn't even be given an interview. Should be out the door along with every other coach at the NHL level

 

[Edmonton East]

If they hire Sullivan......god bless anyone that wastes their time supporting this org afterwards. Nevermind spending their own $$$ to do so.

He hasn't won a playoff series in 6+ years. While having a core of Crosby, Malkin, and Letang......

And having worked in Pitts for a couple of those series and catching the games live, holy hell did they play uninspiring, soft hockey at home. Arena felt like a morgue as a result. Remain the worst playoff hockey atmosphere games I've ever been to.

 

[Blackjack]

Sullivan isn’t getting fired. I almost guarantee.

Go to Vegas and get Nic Roy for 3C. He’s a beast but they have three centers ahead of him now making >$20 million between Eichel, Karlsson and now Hertl. And if they want any attempt at resigning Marchessault or Stephenson, do they really have the luxury of a $3 million 4C?

As soon as they traded for Hertl I went and looked at their center depth to see who we could potentially poach and I thought the same thing.

But why should they trade him? His contract is dirt cheap. Just keep him as a luxury 4C and ready to slot up when someone inevitably gets injured.

 

[Bleedred]

If they hire Sullivan......god bless anyone that wastes their time supporting this org afterwards. Nevermind spending their own $$$ to do so.

He hasn't won a playoff series in 6+ years. While having a core of Crosby, Malkin, and Letang......

And having worked in Pitts for a couple of those series and catching the games live, holy hell did they play uninspiring, soft hockey at home. Arena felt like a morgue as a result. Remain the worst playoff hockey atmosphere games I've ever been to.

Has Pittsburgh actually been good enough to win a playoff series often in the last 6 years? Probably in the last 3-6 years, but certainly not after 2021.

They almost did beat the Rangers in 2022 and they may have if not for Louis Domingue playing like the slaughtered pigs in his spicy pork dish.

And those guys are old 36, 37 and 38 years old. Those players are still good, but there's not much good underneath them and they're all pretty damn old in sports years, even if they're much younger than most players at those ages.

 

[ZYXWVUT]

As soon as they traded for Hertl I went and looked at their center depth to see who we could potentially poach and I thought the same thing.

But why should they trade him? His contract is dirt cheap. Just keep him as a luxury 4C and ready to slot up when someone inevitably gets injured.

Someone is gonna be on the way out of there. I mean you are gonna have to make it worth their while. I never woulda thought Reilly Smith would have been shipped out for a 3rd either this past summer.

 

[Forge]

Sullivan isn’t getting fired. I almost guarantee.

Go to Vegas and get Nic Roy for 3C. He’s a beast but they have three centers ahead of him now making >$20 million between Eichel, Karlsson and now Hertl. And if they want any attempt at resigning Marchessault or Stephenson, do they really have the luxury of a $3 million 4C?

Maybe I'm crazy, but I almost feel like it'll be easier to get wild Bill from them

 

[Bleedred]

Green shouldn't even be given an interview. Should be out the door along with every other coach at the NHL level

Sometimes I think if this team finishes respectably that he may come back in the same role he had this year before Ruff was fired. Like how we reappointed Nas back to assistant when we hired Ruff.

I'm really not thinking he'll be back at all though. And I definitely don't think there's any chance he comes back after this year as head coach. Unless we go 15-0 or 16-0 (however many games we have left) for the rest of the year.

Usually teams don't return their interim head coaches back to assistant when they hire a permanent head coach. Nas was one of the rare times it actually happens.

 

[ZYXWVUT]

Has Pittsburgh actually been good enough to win a playoff series often in the last 6 years? Probably in the last 3-6 years, but certainly not after 2021.

They almost did beat the Rangers in 2022 and they may have if not for Louis Domingue playing like the slaughtered pigs in his spicy pork dish.

Was just thinking. If there is an undisputed #1 acquired this summer, what about Dean Evason as a candidate? I recall you saying your big issue with him from afar was goalie choice. But what if there really isn’t a choice if the “big fish” comes to fruition? You be okay with him?

 

[Guttersniped]

Sullivan isn’t getting fired. I almost guarantee.

Go to Vegas and get Nic Roy for 3C. He’s a beast but they have three centers ahead of him now making >$20 million between Eichel, Karlsson and now Hertl. And if they want any attempt at resigning Marchessault or Stephenson, do they really have the luxury of a $3 million 4C?

Potential reasons Sullivan won’t get fired:
1) Ownership is reportedly a fan of his.
2) Hextall gave him a 3 year/5.5m extension that starts in 2024-25.

Reasons he can get fired:
1) The Pens have a new GM that didn’t hire him.
2) Team’s winning % has been on a steady decline for 4 years. (The team’s decline is more to do with the roster but Dubas can’t fire the roster.)
3) This is the NHL, unless you’re a bottom feeder who’s obviously rebuilding, missing the playoffs often gets coaches fired.

That failure will be more pronounced this season if the 3rd Metro team and/or 2nd WC end up with less than 90 points.

The Pens have 17 games to go but this season:
PIT 66GP 29-28-9 .508 191 GF 196 GA
Just March
PIT 9GP 2-6-1 .278 21 GF 40 GA
as a comparison
NJD 67GP 32-31-4 .507 219 GF 233 GA
Just March
NJD 2-6-0 .250 21 GF 28 GA

The Pens were the 9th place bubble team last year with 91 points. They’re projected to end up under 90 points this season.

They’re bleeding out worse than us now. Looks like a season that gets a coach fired to me.

The extension is awkward but it won’t be much of a financial hit when another NHL teams hires him and the extension wasn’t Dubas’ fault.

 

[Bleedred]

Was just thinking. If there is an undisputed #1 acquired this summer, what about Dean Evason as a candidate? I recall you saying your big issue with him from afar was goalie choice. But what if there really isn’t a choice if the “big fish” comes to fruition? You be okay with him?

He got good results out of some meh Minnesota teams and his system made the goalies look better than they really were (until this year), although Bruce was doing that before he even took over.

I don't want a coach here that's gonna stifle the offense and I'm not sure if he would stifle the offense? That's one big question I have about him.

Yeah, the Fleury over Gustavsson stuff last year was a joke, but this year Fleury has somehow been better than Gustavsson. Gustavsson definitely overachieved last year. Is he just underachieving this year? That remains to be seen. He wasn't a very good goalie in Ottawa in very limited time.

 

[glenwo2]

It's always going to be like this the rest of the season :

WIN
LOSS
WIN
LOSS
WIN
LOSS
WIN
LOSS

(and that's the best case scenario)


Can we just end the season NOW so we won't have to watch this team anymore this year? Thanks.