Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[TrufleShufle]

Popped up on youtube. Don't know the people really, but they say good things about the Devils, and that's all that matters.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Today I learned that lacking a top 6 winger...and throwing shit at the gap hoping it sticks is a top 9.

Because deployment or depth or something or other.

why do basic numbers trigger you so much? Do you see how the majority of the players are huddled around the same ~13-14 minute mark at 5 on 5 and then it drops 2+ minutes after the 9th forward?

Here is how the Cup champs distributed their ice time in the regular season, by the way...notice anything similar?

Again, I don't really care what Fitz says to the media. He said Ruff was safe and then canned him a few weeks later. The numbers bear out that its more of a top 9 and 4th line vs "top 6" and "bottom 6". Lastly, basically no team has six true "top 6" forwards. Most teams have 3-4 like the Devils do, and rotate in other guys on lines 1-3 wherever they fit best.

 

[Bleedred]

I think the forwards are lesser than the 22-23 forwards. Not by a mile or anything.

Defense is definitely better.

Goaltending tandem is definitely better, even though Vitek/Akira were good that year. Blackwood was his usual shit self, yet we were still good enough to win games with him that year. Much like Vitek's absurd winning percentage last year.

Still, I think Markstrom/Allen > Vanecek/Blackwood/Schmid. The Markstrom/Allen tandem is quite old though. I'm thinking that goalie tandem probably puts our team age around the average, if not slightly above average. Especially when you add Dillon and Tatar,

Markstrom/Allen is an old goalie tandem, but it isn't nearly as old as a goalie tandem I remember us having for 3 years, which was a combined 80 years old.

 

[JimEIV]

Why is Tkachuk-Bennett-Rodrigues a good “top 6” line but Tatar-Nico-Timo not? Two guys that have never cleared 50 points. But that’s okay because of toughness, or something.

Another interesting example of mental gymnastics you put out there...

And we're back to this again...Yeah...our group is the the definition of easy to play against while theirs is the antithesis and you know it.

This is what Florida is putting out there:

6'2 -180. 6'3 -215. 6'3-215

6'2-201. 6'1-195. 5'11-180

With your line and add Mercer to Jack and Bratt

5'10-173. 6'1-175. 6'1-220

5'10-175. 5'11-175. 6'0-180


Now we're back to the little league comparison.... it's the Hulk vs the lollipop guild. And Florida is not giving up any skill to our group for that size.

 

[My3Sons]

Individuals don't win cups, teams do. No more perfect illustration of that than the 2024 Finals...

And that is precisely why you need every element on a team.

The completely gratuitous cheap shot by Bennett (if memory serves) on Marchand illustrates my point. That and that goal the league let stand where the Panther clearly pushed the goalie and then shoved the puck in. Why not just Miles Wood the goalie after that? Thr league have a lot of small brained people in charge and Bettman while a slimey smug arrogant insecure douchey weasel who probably spent his young life getting picked on and then the rest of his life taking petty revenge is not stupid and I’m surpsied he has completely cratered to the dinosaurs who think you are best served selling 1988 in 2024. Draisstl did hit someone up high at one point which was good but Edmonton needed to do a lot more of that.

Another interesting example of mental gymnastics you put out there...

And we're back to this again...Yeah...our group is the the definition of easy to play against while theirs is the antithesis and you know it.

This is what Florida is putting out there:

6'2 -180. 6'3 -215. 6'3-215

6'2-201. 6'1-195. 5'11-180

With your line and add Mercer to Jack and Bratt

5'10-173. 6'1-175. 6'1-220

5'10-175. 5'11-175. 6'0-180


Now we're back to the little league comparison.... it's the Hulk vs the lollipop guild. And Florida is not giving up any skill to our group for that size.

I’ll disagree on one point. Jack and Bratt are more skilled than any two players on Florida and in my view that isn’t really close. The NJ skill drops off much quicker though. NJ could use a McSorley or Semenko. MacDermid is way too passive.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

again with the "small = easy to play against"

Kevin Bahl is a giant and he was pushed around nightly last year. Brad Marchand is like 5'8'', would you call him "easy to play against"?

 

[Devils731]

@My3Sons is right that the only truly hard players to play against are the ones that consistently injure their opponents without receiving discipline for it.

The league has a pendulum that is swinging towards game 1 of playoff series featuring multiple psychos who know their role is to take someone good out once the game is decided.

 

[My3Sons]

again with the "small = easy to play against"

Kevin Bahl is a giant and he was pushed around nightly last year. Brad Marchand is like 5'8'', would you call him "easy to play against"?

Bennett thought he was.

 

[JimEIV]

I’ll disagree on one point. Jack and Bratt are more skilled than any two players on Florida

Point and goal totals certainly don't indicate that.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Another interesting example of mental gymnastics you put out there...

And we're back to this again...Yeah...our group is the the definition of easy to play against while theirs is the antithesis and you know it.

This is what Florida is putting out there:

6'2 -180. 6'3 -215. 6'3-215

6'2-201. 6'1-195. 5'11-180

With your line and add Mercer to Jack and Bratt

5'10-173. 6'1-175. 6'1-220

5'10-175. 5'11-175. 6'0-180


Now we're back to the little league comparison.... it's the Hulk vs the lollipop guild. And Florida is not giving up any skill to our group for that size.

You should root for Florida.

You have absolutely no comeback — zero — to what I said, so you resort to this silliness. L

 

[My3Sons]

Point totals certainly don't indicate that.

Meh. Points and skill are not necessarily equivalent. Nobody on Florida skates anywhere close to Jack or Bratt nobody on Florida handles the puck at speed close to either of them nobody on Florida has passing vision or touch close to either of them and nobody on Florida can shoot thr puck off thr goalie’s head from behind the goal line. You can disagree but my guess is overwhelmingly people would agree with me on this specific issue. 1-6 I tend to agree with you but not 1-2.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Another interesting example of mental gymnastics you put out there...

And we're back to this again...Yeah...our group is the the definition of easy to play against while theirs is the antithesis and you know it.

This is what Florida is putting out there:

6'2 -180. 6'3 -215. 6'3-215

6'2-201. 6'1-195. 5'11-180

With your line and add Mercer to Jack and Bratt

5'10-173. 6'1-175. 6'1-220

5'10-175. 5'11-175. 6'0-180


Now we're back to the little league comparison.... it's the Hulk vs the lollipop guild. And Florida is not giving up any skill to our group for that size.

Tampa won back to back Stanley cups with Alex Killorn as their biggest player in their top 6 at 6'1" 194lbs. This same core top 6 that the Devils have was dominant in 2022-2023 because they were relentless on the puck with their speed.

 

[My3Sons]

@My3Sons is right that the only truly hard players to play against are the ones that consistently injure their opponents without receiving discipline for it.

The league has a pendulum that is swinging towards game 1 of playoff series featuring multiple psychos who know their role is to take someone good out once the game is decided.

There is no reason not to use that strategy. Marchand admitted as much.

 

[JimEIV]

Meh. Points and skill are not necessarily equivalent. Nobody on Florida skates anywhere close to Jack or Bratt nobody on Florida handles the puck at speed close to either of them nobody on Florida has passing vision or touch close to either of them and nobody on Florida can shoot thr puck off thr goalie’s head from behind the goal line. You can disagree but my guess is overwhelmingly people would agree with me on this specific issue. 1-6 I tend to agree with you but not 1-2.

Skill without points is figure skating.

 

[Devils731]

There is no reason not to use that strategy. Marchand admitted as much.

The league and the media encourage it as well.

The media makes sense, anything good or bad to talk about is good for them, but the league and NHLPA should hate it. Instead the NHLPA defends those players and the league hires ex-psychos to decide on punishment.

The league’s department of player safety does give us hilarity from time to time when they throw the book at a “soft” player for their first issue but allow dirty players to slide again and again due to “lack of suspension history”.

 

[Guttersniped]

The completely gratuitous cheap shot by Bennett (if memory serves) on Marchand illustrates my point. That and that goal the league let stand where the Panther clearly pushed the goalie and then shoved the puck in. Why not just Miles Wood the goalie after that? Thr league have a lot of small brained people in charge and Bettman while a slimey smug arrogant insecure douchey weasel who probably spent his young life getting picked on and then the rest of his life taking petty revenge is not stupid and I’m surpsied he has completely cratered to the dinosaurs who think you are best served selling 1988 in 2024. Draisstl did hit someone up high at one point which was good but Edmonton needed to do a lot more of that.


I’ll disagree on one point. Jack and Bratt are more skilled than any two players on Florida and in my view that isn’t really close. The NJ skill drops off much quicker though. NJ could use a McSorley or Semenko. MacDermid is way too passive.

Floridia’s lead scorers:
Reinhart: 2014 #2
Tkachuk: 2016 #6
Barkov: 2013 #2
Verhaeghe: 2013 3rd Rd #82
Bennett: 2014 #4
they also have a #1OA in Ekblad

I don’t see the level of skill all that different.

I don’t know the purpose of endlessly comparing us the Florida, they have a fantastic mix of forwards. Good for them.

They won the President’s Cup even before they got Tkachuk.

Fitz isn’t locked into this line-up forever, but this is what we got now.

“Florida’s got two power forwards and a bigger top 6 C” boo f***ing hoo.

 

[JK3]

Oh this is all so tedious and boring.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I know it will get lost in history but the Panthers very nearly had the biggest choke in the history of the game. And frankly, they got lucky not to be down 2-1 instead of up 3-0. They were a very good team and I'm not saying they didn't deserve to win the Cup. But to be honest, I feel like the better team lost the Cup. I don't think the Panthers are some shining example of NHL perfection that every team should be aspiring to. They are really good, but they aren't perfect.

 

[Bleedred]

They won the President’s Cup even before they got Tkachuk.

Yeah but they got a Hart Trophy year out of Jonathan Huberdeau tho!

 

[njdevils1982]

Skill without points is figure skating.

this guy gets a 10 for his skating skill

 

[Forge]

Oh this is all so tedious and boring.

Believe it or not, "Tedious and boring" was my second choice for a forum name. Flipped a coin between that and Forge

 

[ndkjr70]

nothing has ever made me purposely avoid visiting this website more than 42 pages of a strung out boomer yelling about what makes teams hard to play against.

 

[Guadana]

I know it will get lost in history but the Panthers very nearly had the biggest choke in the history of the game. And frankly, they got lucky not to be down 2-1 instead of up 3-0. They were a very good team and I'm not saying they didn't deserve to win the Cup. But to be honest, I feel like the better team lost the Cup. I don't think the Panthers are some shining example of NHL perfection that every team should be aspiring to. They are really good, but they aren't perfect.

President, SCF and SC win in three consecutive years is quite good result.

Jim still can’t understand what he is trying to say because Palat isn’t hard to play against because he didn’t score but Jack isn’t hard to play against because he is small, and Nico isn’t hard to play against because he is nit throwing hits, and Meier isn’t hard to play against because… he is the only one. May be.

Overall reams with good depth are hard to play against. Brady Tkachuk can trow million hits but his team svck even with guys like Stuzle, Giroux, Batherson, Chycrun, Debrinkat, Chabot, Sanderson, Zub in the roster. Some of them are big, some of them are “tough”, some of them are skilled, some of them have everything of that.
But Brady the captain Tkachuk who is not afraid to fight, who is scoring and throwing hits, is freaking loser. Because he doesn’t understand what he should do and when, he isn’t good positional player.

Small players like Marchand or Kucherov are tough and they are really hard to play against because they know what to do and when. “Size, hits and points” in vacuum isn’t enough. Palat is hard to play against even when he doesn’t score because he knows when he should be on the ice and where he should be on the ice to minimize chances of opponents. He can hit, he can take away the puck, he can push player to the board and slow the game down.
Some of our players should learn it. Reason why Nico is much harder to play against player than Timo even if he is smaller and he is making less hits.

Like someone said - Tampa were very small team from top-6/top-9 perspective but they were the best team in the recent 30 years. And they were really hard to play against. Part of it was their physicality and hound mentality but still they could do it because they were skilled enough and smart enough to understand where they should be and what they should do in different situation.

 

[Guttersniped]

nothing has ever made me purposely avoid visiting this website more than 42 pages of a strung out boomer yelling about what makes teams hard to play against.

He’s definitely a Gen Xer. (The world can decide if that’s better, but not a boomer.)

 

[njdevils1982]

nothing has ever made me purposely avoid visiting this website more than 42 pages of a strung out boomer yelling about what makes teams hard to play against.

you sure you dont mean gen x?