Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[My3Sons]

Tampa won back to back Stanley cups with Alex Killorn as their biggest player in their top 6 at 6'1" 194lbs. This same core top 6 that the Devils have was dominant in 2022-2023 because they were relentless on the puck with their speed.

The game has changed for the worse since the good old days of TB winning the cup. TB and VGK used cap manipulation via LTIR to add extra skill for a cup run. In contrast the current playoffs valued cheating and cheap shots. We will see what comes next.

 

[My3Sons]

Skill without points is figure skating.

That’s fine but the discussion was about skill. You didn’t lead with Florida having more points from its top six unless I misread what you said.

 

[StevenToddIves]

President, SCF and SC win in three consecutive years is quite good result.

Jim still can’t understand what he is trying to say because Palat isn’t hard to play against because he didn’t score but Jack isn’t hard to play against because he is small, and Nico isn’t hard to play against because he is nit throwing hits, and Meier isn’t hard to play against because… he is the only one. May be.

Overall reams with good depth are hard to play against. Brady Tkachuk can trow million hits but his team svck even with guys like Stuzle, Giroux, Batherson, Chycrun, Debrinkat, Chabot, Sanderson, Zub in the roster. Some of them are big, some of them are “tough”, some of them are skilled, some of them have everything of that.
But Brady the captain Tkachuk who is not afraid to fight, who is scoring and throwing hits, is freaking loser. Because he doesn’t understand what he should do and when, he isn’t good positional player.

Small players like Marchand or Kucherov are tough and they are really hard to play against because they know what to do and when. “Size, hits and points” in vacuum isn’t enough. Palat is hard to play against even when he doesn’t score because he knows when he should be on the ice and where he should be on the ice to minimize chances of opponents. He can hit, he can take away the puck, he can push player to the board and slow the game down.
Some of our players should learn it. Reason why Nico is much harder to play against player than Timo even if he is smaller and he is making less hits.

Like someone said - Tampa were very small team from top-6/top-9 perspective but they were the best team in the recent 30 years. And they were really hard to play against. Part of it was their physicality and hound mentality but still they could do it because they were skilled enough and smart enough to understand where they should be and what they should do in different situation.

Tampa is really interesting in that -- as you and I have both said many times -- hockey teams need balance to win at the highest levels. And oh boy, was that team balanced. Great in goal, a supremely talented top 6, the best 3rd line in hockey, a big/mobile/physical/skilled blueline. They could beat you so many ways.

The "downfall" of the Lightning was essentially caused by the salary cap. They lost their incredible 3rd line of Coleman/Gourde/Goodrow, they could not maintain their six-deep blueline depth, the 4th line became a cavalcade of rotating players. Simply put, the Lightning are still good and supremely talented at the top of the line-up, but they can only beat you in one way -- if their top guys play better than your top guys.

I agree with everything you're saying here. And the fact remains that the Devils have enough talent at the top of the line-up to win big if they include more dimensions at the middle and bottom of the line-up. That's why I loved the acquisitions of Pesce and Dillon and, yes, of Cotter. I would've liked the Markstrom deal more if we got Blake Coleman back, too haha.

 

[Ripshot 43]

Oh this is all so tedious and boring.

 

[glenwo2]

I feel “fine” about a healthy top 9. Jack, Bratt, Nico can carry a heavy load. Timo came on strong to finish the year and for the first time looked like himself as a Devil. Those 4 can ease things a lot. You hope you get closer to the Mercer of 2 years ago. Then 4 solid two way guys to round out the top 9.

My issue is the same issue I had last year with the forwards but feel stronger about it with this group. The depth is so so bad. Lazar was really good last year but he’s your 4C and as of now we don’t have any other viable center options to fill in for him if he has to move up (he’s also never been a full time center himself). Cotter’s a pretty average 4th liner and probably not someone I feel good about playing up. The 12F isn’t that good. Nate’s coming off a rough year. Who knows what Halonen and Foote even are. MacDermid’s a complete f***ing joke. I’d like Alex Nylander as an extra that can play up in the top 9 and provide some offense when guys go down but that also still doesn’t solve the issue of needing more centers

 

[Devils731]

The first pass said take rather than carry.

 

[RNCDevil]

Jack started the year as a 2ppg player. I think he can handle the league when he's healthy. What I worry about is playoff hockey, half-injured Hughes and teammates absolutely letting any opposition take runs at other teammates.

I am hopeful that the Devils just start the year with a reputation that they cannot be bullied. I think that will go a long way towards not seeing a collapse.

 

[NjDevsRR]

 

[glenwo2]

So Jack and Bratt are now figure-skaters, @JimEIV ?

I guess this is your new "He's a Disgrace" catchphrase.

 

[Guadana]

Tampa is really interesting in that -- as you and I have both said many times -- hockey teams need balance to win at the highest levels. And oh boy, was that team balanced. Great in goal, a supremely talented top 6, the best 3rd line in hockey, a big/mobile/physical/skilled blueline. They could beat you so many ways.

The "downfall" of the Lightning was essentially caused by the salary cap. They lost their incredible 3rd line of Coleman/Gourde/Goodrow, they could not maintain their six-deep blueline depth, the 4th line became a cavalcade of rotating players. Simply put, the Lightning are still good and supremely talented at the top of the line-up, but they can only beat you in one way -- if their top guys play better than your top guys.

I agree with everything you're saying here. And the fact remains that the Devils have enough talent at the top of the line-up to win big if they include more dimensions at the middle and bottom of the line-up. That's why I loved the acquisitions of Pesce and Dillon and, yes, of Cotter. I would've liked the Markstrom deal more if we got Blake Coleman back, too haha.

I think Devils lack of true shot down center. We don’t have third line who can survive against tough competition and let to play one of our top line against weaker competition. You mentioned Coleman line. We don’t have it. Yeah, making our defense much better was the greatest decision, I think it will help a lot. But now Devils should think about offensive depth, especially with some flexibility before the trade deadline.

We heard a lot of bad “offers” for a trade of 10OA pick just to make a trade because fans can’t live with talent in prospect pool, they just need to waste assets and load the cap, when free agent market can give you the same without losing +1 huge talent in your team. I’m so happy to NOT see the draft without 10 pick with Buium, Nygard, Silayev, Dickinson and Helenius on the table. This pick made our team much better in perspective and it will help to build better defensive depth. Or free some money for making better offensive depth. It would be great to have Lundell level talent on our third line but we will not have an opportunity to draft our future middle six center, we will not have early picks in the next years, only if we will face very huge injury unluck.
So would be great if Fitz would trade with some team for a good third line center with some better potential. We should develop defenseman for making it real. Vilen is showing good promises and production, but it will be harder to give him opportunity to shine, only if Siegs or Dillon will have injuries. Misyul is NHL ready but he doesn’t have enough offensive potential to be the target in a trade for NHL third line center. In Orlov and Karpovich cases both are very good for their age and for their stage of their careers but I think both needs two more years away from NHL at least. So it will be harder for them to have NHL opportunity with Silayev who needs ~ the same amount of time for development. I don’t think it’s a really big problem, we can load our AHL farm with good defensemen, ship some older players away like Dillon or Siegs if we need to, use better players in injury cases, If we will have Luke, Anton after three years and one of other prospects will pan out - it would be great to use them in the trade - defensemen have better value.

But it would be better to find good third line center before our young left defensemen from our B-squad will make a huge step in some specific circumstances in 2026 or so.
But we don’t have real assets noe to make a trade for a good third line center. We have Gritsyuk and Casey but we still need both. I don’t think that Lenny or some other prospect worth third line NHL center even in the package.

 

[RNCDevil]

Dillon really thinks highly of Pesce. I know BP by reputation but I am looking forward to really watching his game.

Dillon really sounds like a gym-rat. I hope that's a trend across the team.

 

[Guttersniped]

Tampa is really interesting in that -- as you and I have both said many times -- hockey teams need balance to win at the highest levels. And oh boy, was that team balanced. Great in goal, a supremely talented top 6, the best 3rd line in hockey, a big/mobile/physical/skilled blueline. They could beat you so many ways.

The "downfall" of the Lightning was essentially caused by the salary cap. They lost their incredible 3rd line of Coleman/Gourde/Goodrow, they could not maintain their six-deep blueline depth, the 4th line became a cavalcade of rotating players. Simply put, the Lightning are still good and supremely talented at the top of the line-up, but they can only beat you in one way -- if their top guys play better than your top guys.

I agree with everything you're saying here. And the fact remains that the Devils have enough talent at the top of the line-up to win big if they include more dimensions at the middle and bottom of the line-up. That's why I loved the acquisitions of Pesce and Dillon and, yes, of Cotter. I would've liked the Markstrom deal more if we got Blake Coleman back, too haha.

Losing Gourde, Palat and Killorn on top of the forwards you named was the bigger problem.

They added Perry, Hagel, Paul, etc but it’s impossible to patch up all those hits.

Despite the LTIR spending, Tampa won in the frozen cap age in part because they didn’t spend much on defense.

Hedman made less than 8m and thrived with a cheap partner, usually (a very cheap) Rutta. McDonaugh made 6.75m, he and Cernak were a critical shutdown pair. Sergachev and Cernak’s 3-year bridge deals kept the cost of that core down, until it didn’t.

Hedman has suddenly declined for two years, the production is there but everything else is worse. And Cernak has been a mess for two years as well. Sergachev looked like a stud then had a bad year last year. They replaced the traded McDonaugh with randos, maybe getting him back helps Cernak.

 

[MadDevil]

 

[glenwo2]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1809433707905757428

 

[StevenToddIves]

I think Devils lack of true shot down center. We don’t have third line who can survive against tough competition and let to play one of our top line against weaker competition. You mentioned Coleman line. We don’t have it. Yeah, making our defense much better was the greatest decision, I think it will help a lot. But now Devils should think about offensive depth, especially with some flexibility before the trade deadline.

We heard a lot of bad “offers” for a trade of 10OA pick just to make a trade because fans can’t live with talent in prospect pool, they just need to waste assets and load the cap, when free agent market can give you the same without losing +1 huge talent in your team. I’m so happy to NOT see the draft without 10 pick with Buium, Nygard, Silayev, Dickinson and Helenius on the table. This pick made our team much better in perspective and it will help to build better defensive depth. Or free some money for making better offensive depth. It would be great to have Lundell level talent on our third line but we will not have an opportunity to draft our future middle six center, we will not have early picks in the next years, only if we will face very huge injury unluck.
So would be great if Fitz would trade with some team for a good third line center with some better potential. We should develop defenseman for making it real. Vilen is showing good promises and production, but it will be harder to give him opportunity to shine, only if Siegs or Dillon will have injuries. Misyul is NHL ready but he doesn’t have enough offensive potential to be the target in a trade for NHL third line center. In Orlov and Karpovich cases both are very good for their age and for their stage of their careers but I think both needs two more years away from NHL at least. So it will be harder for them to have NHL opportunity with Silayev who needs ~ the same amount of time for development. I don’t think it’s a really big problem, we can load our AHL farm with good defensemen, ship some older players away like Dillon or Siegs if we need to, use better players in injury cases, If we will have Luke, Anton after three years and one of other prospects will pan out - it would be great to use them in the trade - defensemen have better value.

But it would be better to find good third line center before our young left defensemen from our B-squad will make a huge step in some specific circumstances in 2026 or so.
But we don’t have real assets noe to make a trade for a good third line center. We have Gritsyuk and Casey but we still need both. I don’t think that Lenny or some other prospect worth third line NHL center even in the package.

We don't have a 4th line center in the prospect pool, much less a 3rd line center haha. It's definitely the biggest issue in the system.

I'd say the Devils defensive prospects are among the best in the league, and the goaltenders should be up there as well with the addition of Yegorov. But the wingers are relatively weak overall and the center prospects for NJ are probably 32 out of 32 in the NHL right now.

But overall I'm certainly happy with the past couple of weeks for NJ. I'm thanking the stars every day that Fitzgerald was smart enough not to trade the #10 overall pick for a 2nd line winger. Silayev will be a tremendous part of this team's core for many, many years.

 

[Andre Palot]

Listen. I would have loved Stamkos and March on this team too to really shore up the center depth but those contracts Nashville gave out - if we matched or went higher for either of those, this board would have been completely insufferable

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Popped up on youtube. Don't know the people really, but they say good things about the Devils, and that's all that matters.

Injuries are gunna be the major x factor imo. That forward lineup is real thin

 

[SJinNewJersey]

So Jack and Bratt are now figure-skaters, @JimEIV ?

I guess this is your new "He's a Disgrace" catchphrase.

 

[Lou is God]

Maybe this will change the conversation, Dillon mic'ed up:

 

[Guadana]

We don't have a 4th line center in the prospect pool, much less a 3rd line center haha. It's definitely the biggest issue in the system.

I'd say the Devils defensive prospects are among the best in the league, and the goaltenders should be up there as well with the addition of Yegorov. But the wingers are relatively weak overall and the center prospects for NJ are probably 32 out of 32 in the NHL right now.

But overall I'm certainly happy with the past couple of weeks for NJ. I'm thanking the stars every day that Fitzgerald was smart enough not to trade the #10 overall pick for a 2nd line winger. Silayev will be a tremendous part of this team's core for many, many years.

32 out of 32? Even after Graham's pick?

 

[My3Sons]

Maybe this will change the conversation, Dillon mic'ed up:

Hopefully he brings that to NJ. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[Ripshot 43]

Maybe this will change the conversation, Dillon mic'ed up:

Shoresy is that you?

 

[glenwo2]

View attachment 892968

I present to you all my bad photoshop skills :

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

Jeff Skinner took figure skating lessons

 

[My3Sons]

Floridia’s lead scorers:
Reinhart: 2014 #2
Tkachuk: 2016 #6
Barkov: 2013 #2
Verhaeghe: 2013 3rd Rd #82
Bennett: 2014 #4
they also have a #1OA in Ekblad

I don’t see the level of skill all that different.

I don’t know the purpose of endlessly comparing us the Florida, they have a fantastic mix of forwards. Good for them.

They won the President’s Cup even before they got Tkachuk.

Fitz isn’t locked into this line-up forever, but this is what we got now.

“Florida’s got two power forwards and a bigger top 6 C” boo f***ing hoo.

Again, the definition of “skill” in any consensus source I’m aware of does not include points as part of the definition.