Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[HBK27]

McLeod isn't good enough to warrant the bad PR the Devils will suffer by keeping him around.

What bad PR? We have ONE beat writer covering this team and his content is behind a paywall. A vast, vast majority of Devils fans have no idea about his potential involvement, not to mention the ridiculousness of getting rid of a player based solely on a suspicion.

 

[Better Call Sal]

McLeod isn't good enough to warrant the bad PR the Devils will suffer by keeping him around.

There is no bad PR. Everything is speculation until there is any further detailed information out there. If his name is made public, you can bet it'll be handled pretty swiftly.

His play will likely warrant him nothing more than 4th line minutes regardless now that Haula is here.

 

[JrFischer54]

I don’t personally think he has any obligation to discuss the situation and I am sure everyone is advising him not to talk. He would be insane to discuss it. Everything about his role if any in the 2018 events is rumor and innuendo and guilt by association at this point. We should suspend judgment I believe until more is known.

your right if he was involved or knew about it then he shouldn't discuss it. if he is innocent then he should have no problem discussing it and denying his involvement. i've said this from the start if you weren't involved come out and say it but they rather protect their brothers and only recently some have come out and claimed the "i didn't know" which is complete and total bs everyone on that team knew what happened soon after 1000000000000%

 

[JrFischer54]

I think he’s okay, but he is a busted first round pick and that also makes him look worse than he actually is. His ability to go on ridiculous goal less streaks (he’s already on his second of 30+ games and third of at least 25 games) is also truly astonishing.

He’s not a bad 4th line center, but he’s also not a player we need to be signing for multiple seasons next year (assuming he’s cleared in the scandal) or for multiple millions of dollars either. I don’t see him as a long term piece here and he really shouldn’t be.

there are plenty of mikey clones out there in the nhl there is really no need to have him on this roster with the alleged stuff hanging over him.

He definitely does but he probably doesn’t want to get paid low salary when he can easily get more in the world of television.

thats true about getting paid in tv but i think he still would've liked a chance on a contender for a cup. its amazing how quickly he fell off a cliff but hes still a great locker room guy (from what i've read) so thats going to sting not having him in the room with a bunch of kids.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I'm sure we all wish there were more, but some of the highlights of his time here.

I'll always adore him sticking up for Jack by going after Wahlstrom.

 

[glenwo2]

What bad PR? We have ONE beat writer covering this team and his content is behind a paywall. A vast, vast majority of Devils fans have no idea about his potential involvement, not to mention the ridiculousness of getting rid of a player based solely on a suspicion.

You know what?

That's fair.

So how about wanting to get rid of a player because he's basically a waste of a roster spot that could be used to give other prospects a chance?

 

[JrFischer54]

What bad PR? We have ONE beat writer covering this team and his content is behind a paywall. A vast, vast majority of Devils fans have no idea about his potential involvement, not to mention the ridiculousness of getting rid of a player based solely on a suspicion.

there is such a thing as getting out in front of a story too being proactive instead reactive. if/when this story does drop and names are released in the middle of the season its just going to cause unwanted attention and a distraction.

sure yes hes innocent until proven guilty but right now hes guilty of some bad advice if hes staying quiet while being innocent and hes even more guilty of bad judgement to even put himself in a bad situation like this.

for people on this board to not want tony deangelo on this roster for things he thinks and says and they don't want him around the kids in the locker room its pretty amazing that we are on the "wait and see" approach for mikey a 4th line fringe player.

 

[HBK27]

You know what?

That's fair.

So how about wanting to get rid of a player because he's basically a waste of a roster spot that could be used to give other prospects a chance?

I would like to believe "becuz he suxx" is a good-faith argument on your part, though given the comment below, I'm highly doubt you can be unbiased on this situation.

Regardless of what the outcome of that investigation reveals, McLeod is dead to me and has joined the ranks of Reid Boucher.

and that's all that will be said.

But, if you want to play this out, I'd love to hear you articulate the reason why getting rid of McLeod to "give other prospects a chance" would be beneficial to the team this season.

Make sure you lay out the game plan for replacing McLeod on the PK, where he led the team in TOI.

Look at the ATOI for the PKers last year:
- Gauthier (only 8 GP) - 2:49 (gone)
- McLeod - 2:01
- Vesey - 2:01 (gone)
- Hischier - 1:42
- Kuokkanen - 1:03 (gone)
- Sharangovish - 1:01
- Studenic (17 GP) - 1:00 (gone)
- Thompson (2 GP) - 0:40 (likely in Utica)
- Zacha - 0:22 (gone)
- Mercer - 0:18

So you'd be replacing your top two F PK'ers from last season and going with Nico, Sharangovich and ???

Palat didn't PK in Tampa (0:18 ATOI last season), while Haula was 7th on the forward depth chart in Boston with 0:44.

McLeod was also one of the top players in the dot last season at 57.3% FOW, compared to just 43.9% for the rest of the team. Yes, Haula will help here as he was at 53.9% last year and is at 52.0% for his career, though I still think Ruff is putting McLeod out there late with a lead, as somewhat evidenced by his 75.2% DZS% compared to 44.1% for Haula.

 

[bossram]

there is such a thing as getting out in front of a story too being proactive instead reactive. if/when this story does drop and names are released in the middle of the season its just going to cause unwanted attention and a distraction.

sure yes hes innocent until proven guilty but right now hes guilty of some bad advice if hes staying quiet while being innocent and hes even more guilty of bad judgement to even put himself in a bad situation like this.

for people on this board to not want tony deangelo on this roster for things he thinks and says and they don't want him around the kids in the locker room its pretty amazing that we are on the "wait and see" approach for mikey a 4th line fringe player.

Yeah, I'm not sure how well the McLeod story will end when most of the other players potentially involved came out with statements outright denying they were there, yet some others (Mcleod, Batherson, Formenton) haven't said anything.

I don't think they can really turf him without credible allegations against, but it'll be a bad look if they have to suspend him in-season. If he doesn't make the team because he was "outplayed", I wouldn't be too upset about it.

 

[HBK27]

there is such a thing as getting out in front of a story too being proactive instead reactive. if/when this story does drop and names are released in the middle of the season its just going to cause unwanted attention and a distraction.

sure yes hes innocent until proven guilty but right now hes guilty of some bad advice if hes staying quiet while being innocent and hes even more guilty of bad judgement to even put himself in a bad situation like this.

for people on this board to not want tony deangelo on this roster for things he thinks and says and they don't want him around the kids in the locker room its pretty amazing that we are on the "wait and see" approach for mikey a 4th line fringe player.

Yes, if the Devils get inside information that a story is going to drop proving McLeod's guilt, then I'm with you - go ahead and be proactive. But that's not what you're advising here given the "if/when this story does drop..." comment.

You're advocating that they cut/get rid of a player based solely on speculation, which is complete horseshit. But, it's justified in your mind because he's a "4th line fringe player". So, where's your line then? If he was better does he get a free pass or at least the courtesy of letting the situation play out before making a rash, career altering decision? How about if he was a top 9 forward? Top 6? Is it still OK to tar and feather him based on a hunch?

 

[JimEIV]

there is such a thing as getting out in front of a story too being proactive instead reactive. if/when this story does drop and names are released in the middle of the season its just going to cause unwanted attention and a distraction.

sure yes hes innocent until proven guilty but right now hes guilty of some bad advice if hes staying quiet while being innocent and hes even more guilty of bad judgement to even put himself in a bad situation like this.

for people on this board to not want tony deangelo on this roster for things he thinks and says and they don't want him around the kids in the locker room its pretty amazing that we are on the "wait and see" approach for mikey a 4th line fringe player.

I don't even fully understand what was alleged...I tried to lookup some stuff and all I can surmise is that Hockey Canada paid people to keep quiet...about what I don't know. I saw one thing about text messages and it seemed a mom was more upset than the subject? I don't know...The context in these things are always so vague and left to your imagination...Which is complete and utter bullshit in my opinion...You either A. don't talk about it or B. Full transparency and nothing short.

But left to our own devices the worst is always assumed...One of the few issues where you are definitely guilty until proven innocent in the court of public opinion. It is shameful honestly.

And I don't like McLeod (the player of course) LOL.

 

[Camille the Eel]

There is no bad PR. Everything is speculation until there is any further detailed information out there. If his name is made public, you can bet it'll be handled pretty swiftly.

His play will likely warrant him nothing more than 4th line minutes regardless now that Haula is here.

I wonder if we might be better off playing him at wing on a forecheck line, where his speed and size might make him a good first man in, whose job is to separate the defense from the puck, when it’s chipped into the corner.
We haven’t been good at that. Maybe McLeod could be useful there.

 

[My3Sons]

there is such a thing as getting out in front of a story too being proactive instead reactive. if/when this story does drop and names are released in the middle of the season its just going to cause unwanted attention and a distraction.

sure yes hes innocent until proven guilty but right now hes guilty of some bad advice if hes staying quiet while being innocent and hes even more guilty of bad judgement to even put himself in a bad situation like this.

for people on this board to not want tony deangelo on this roster for things he thinks and says and they don't want him around the kids in the locker room its pretty amazing that we are on the "wait and see" approach for mikey a 4th line fringe player.

TDA and McLeod are two different things. TDA had some specifics released about him and his story percolated with bits of information released from time to time. My guess is that in the first few months after the first report of whatever he initially did there wouldn't have been much of a call for him to be released. Over time there was the interview with his dad and some reporting about his situation going all the way back to junior. Other than no statement by McLeod all we know is he was on the team. At least that's all I've seen. If you are aware of anything else that would change how this plays out.

Nobody here is saying they are happy McLeod is on the team. I agree with you that the team or McLeod not getting ahead of the story looks bad, but that's not actual reporting of anything and isn't grounds to terminate a contract. The Rangers only sent TDA home after he wrecked the locker room, not because of any beliefs he held. I'm not aware of TDA actually committing any crimes prior to putting his hands on a teammate. What McLeod is potentially involved may include felony sexual assault. It's messy and ugly but these guys are in a union that will protect them or at least their contracts. Plenty of folks have said they would release him right now. All I'm saying is that the team is likely constrained at the moment. I guess they could send him home and pay him but that probably results in a grievance the NHLPA probably wins.

 

[Darkauron]

Get prepared for the "greatest shape of my life" quotes for tomorrow during training camp weigh-ins and interviews!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[njdevil26]

While I completely understand and agree with the notion of "innocent til proven guilty" silence is worse for McLeod. You would think if he was innocent or not involved he or his agent/lawyer would be screaming that from the mountain tops.

There's 2 people left on the team that haven't made a statement and 8 were allegedly directly involved.

Others have made statements that they weren't at the event or even in the province at the time. Easily proven wrong if lying... so I believe them. It's up to him to prove his innocence and he proves he belongs on this team. With continued silence, there will be questions and distractions continually. An average fourth liner is not worth that especially when he's easily replaceable by signing/trade/system.

 

[OmNomNom]

we can be okay with him being gone and simultaneously appreciate what he brought/brings as an athlete. it's not like he's COMPLETELY useless - he does have his merits.

but for his position, there's a lot of other elements we can bring onto the team, where it's not like his loss is irreplaceable. we may get a more physical C who's worse at PK, but it all nets out anyway. but the downside of losing him (potentially) is that he's a known asset. no need to waste breath on a bottom 6er

 

[njdevil26]

we can be okay with him being gone and simultaneously appreciate what he brought/brings as an athlete. it's not like he's COMPLETELY useless - he does have his merits.

but for his position, there's a lot of other elements we can bring onto the team, where it's not like his loss is irreplaceable. we may get a more physical C who's worse at PK, but it all nets out anyway. but the downside of losing him (potentially) is that he's a known asset. no need to waste breath on a bottom 6er

He's great at faceoffs and actually hits people which is more an indictment on the rest of the team rather than praise for McLeod lol

 

[FooteBahl]

Get prepared for the "greatest shape of my life" quotes for tomorrow during training camp weigh-ins and interviews!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I report to camp: “Pear is a shape, amirite?”

 

[My3Sons]

While I completely understand and agree with the notion of "innocent til proven guilty" silence is worse for McLeod. You would think if he was innocent or not involved he or his agent/lawyer would be screaming that from the mountain tops.

There's 2 people left on the team that haven't made a statement and 8 were allegedly directly involved.

Others have made statements that they weren't at the event or even in the province at the time. Easily proven wrong if lying... so I believe them. It's up to him to prove his innocence and he proves he belongs on this team. With continued silence, there will be questions and distractions continually. An average fourth liner is not worth that especially when he's easily replaceable by signing/trade/system.

You raise some good points and in the court of public opinion you aren't wrong. In just about any government administrative or judicial component with a punitive element I don't think he bears the burden of proving his innocence. I imagine the team is planning for how to handle this if a story with details becomes public. My guess is they "will be saddened to learn" and act accordingly at that point.

 

[njdevil26]

You raise some good points and in the court of public opinion you aren't wrong. In just about any government administrative or judicial component with a punitive element I don't think he bears the burden of proving his innocence. I imagine the team is planning for how to handle this if a story with details becomes public. My guess is they "will be saddened to learn" and act accordingly at that point.

Yeah no party is going to have an easy time dealing with this. If the Devils want to cut him, his agent will say "based on what" since there's no conclusive findings.

They Devils likely can't trade him without knowing he is actually completely innocent. If he is innocent, he doesn't need to be traded anyway.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

You can't keep throwing rookies on the bottom 6 and expect to win. You need good role players that offer something defensively. I'm not saying McLeod is that yet, but you generally get better defensively the more NHL experience you have. So he's closer to being a solid bottom 6er than if you cycle prospects down there. This team has to make an effort to win at some point.

Zetterlund for example has played a grand total of 14 games. We'll see if he has what it takes, and we sort of have to since he's waiver-eligible, but there's a decent chance that he fails. McLeod has at least proven he is a (limited) NHL-level player.

 

[HBK27]

Yeah no party is going to have an easy time dealing with this. If the Devils want to cut him, his agent will say "based on what" since there's no conclusive findings.

They Devils likely can't trade him without knowing he is actually completely innocent. If he is innocent, he doesn't need to be traded anyway.

No team is going to trade for him given the cloud of this investigation hanging over his head. The Devils also can't just terminate his contract without cause. There's not much they can really do at this point - he's under contract for this season and unless the latest investigation provides some damning evidence against him their hands are tied. Not sure what people are expecting the team to do right now - just terminate his contract and deal with the consequences (NHLPA grievance, likely a dead cap hit for a team already at/over the cap)?

 

[Bleedred]

Almost hard to believe he's retiring.

He only just turned 33, which isn't close to young in the NHL, but there are even older defenseman in the league that are worse than him, who just signed this offseason.

Maybe he's got nagging issues or just lost his passion for playing?

I really could see him coming out of retirement in a year and either signing a one year deal or getting a PTO somewhere, if he really has the itch and wants to give it another go.

It feels weird that Andy Greene (who was absolutely worse than Subban and has been for years now) is almost 7 years older and his career in the NHL (from the looks of it) ended at the same time as Subban's.

And I still wouldn't put it past Lou to give Greene a PTO or even sign him a month or two into the season if guys started getting injured.

 

[My3Sons]

No team is going to trade for him given the cloud of this investigation hanging over his head. The Devils also can't just terminate his contract without cause. There's not much they can really do at this point - he's under contract for this season and unless the latest investigation provides some damning evidence against him their hands are tied. Not sure what people are expecting the team to do right now - just terminate his contract and deal with the consequences (NHLPA grievance, likely a dead cap hit for a team already at/over the cap)?

He's young. A bad faith termination that impacts his earnings if he doesn't turn out to have been involved would be an ugly lawsuit.

 

[Guttersniped]

You know what?

That's fair.

So how about wanting to get rid of a player because he's basically a waste of a roster spot that could be used to give other prospects a chance?

We don’t have any center prospects who possibly compete with McLeod, not sure why you think we do. Talvitie is in no way better than McLeod. Not sure Thompson is a center and he should definitely see time in Utica, particularly since he’s still waiver exempt.

He’s fine as the 4C and is actually genuinely needed on the PK and as a defensive center. He makes 975k.

McLeod far from a perfect player, I would like to see him get better defensively 5v5 actually, that would increase his value without increasing his cost much.

Zero players have been effected by this scandal so far.

Sam Steel finally got signed, he might have sat on the UFA market for long while because basically kind of sucks. Some people point to Ottawa not signing Drake Batherson yet but the Sens (and every team) have signed RFAs late before.

Team Canada is, and in my opinion rightly, baring the brunt of this because people know what they did. (And they’re a government institution that bears some responsibilities here.)

I can’t play a guessing game about if McLeod was involved or has knowledge about it from the current information.

I don’t know, new information could come out and all sorts of things could happen. I don’t see why a team would be expected to act now unless they have a lot more information than the public.