Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[devilsblood]

Palat's money could be better used, probably. He was a net negative value this year but only by like 1.5M. It'll probably get worse, but that's not a contract that's killing you if the rest of the team is healthy and playing well.

Maybe one critique of that contract would be, as a vet with multiple cups on his resume, he'd bring leadership that would help us avoid the pitfalls a young team often experiences.

Slow starts, blowing leads, falling apart late in the season, all things which suggest the teams mindset wasn't great.

 

[Devs3cups]

Maybe one critique of that contract would be, as a vet with multiple cups on his resume, he'd bring leadership that would help us avoid the pitfalls a young team often experiences.

Slow starts, blowing leads, falling apart late in the season, all things which suggest the teams mindset wasn't great.

Fair but who says he doesn’t? Hard for only 1 player to do that/change the team mindset on his own.

 

[JimEIV]

It's also time to stop looking for the Palat's and Haula's of the world for leadership and look directly into the eyes of Jack, Bratt Timo and Nico...


If a healthy Jack, Bratt, Timo, Nico and Dougie can't make the playoffs easily and make some noise in the playoffs...we need to reconsider that group.

That's where all our resources are, that's what was built...that is who needs to lead. And when we fail, that's who needs to answer for it

 

[devilsblood]

It's also time to stop looking for the Palat's and Haula's of the world for leadership and look directly into the eyes of Jack, Bratt Timo and Nico...


If a healthy Jack, Bratt, Timo, Nico and Dougie can't make the playoffs easily and make some noise in the playoffs...we need to reconsider that group.

That's where all our resources are, that's what was built...that is who needs to lead. And when we fail, that's who needs to answer for to it

But isn't that a big part of the reason you bring in a guy like Palat. Isn't it why he get's that contract.

Obviously the guy with the C on his chest needs to bring it too.

I do feel these guys you want/expect to be leaders have a tough gig when you have the talented young brothers with super star swagger.

Bratt to me is the opposite of a leader, being so focused on keeping his own emotions tamped down.

 

[JimEIV]

But isn't that a big part of the reason you bring in a guy like Palat. Isn't it why he get's that contract.

Obviously the guy with the C on his chest needs to bring it too.

I do feel these guys you want/expect to be leaders have a tough gig when you have the talented young brothers with super star swagger.

Bratt to me is the opposite of a leader, being so focused on keeping his own emotions tamped down.

Maybe 2 years ago is why you brought in a Palat...

This "young team" mantra is past it's expiration date now.

Although the defense is very much in that "young" condition...but the broader team, it's time for some of those players to man up and win games with sheer will.

 

[forceten]

A year ago I was making Playoff Avatars, not Dano memes to pass the time. I’m sad now.

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And now:

 

[ZYXWVUT]

I would be checking in with Vegas about some potential targets if they will need to move at least a couple guys out to make space for any impending UFAs they want back (Hanifin, Marchessault, Stephenson, Amadio, Mantha being the main ones, with Carrier & Martinez as well). Specifically Nicolas Roy (3C), Brayden McNabb or Nic Hague (LHD) & Keegan Kolesar (L4 Nastiness).

 

[theoptimist]

3-4 years at $4M for a 35 year old?

Hard pass.

2 year at $3m is a maybe, but I just don't think I want him back at all. I thought a big reason he was on the table back then was he was a modest effort guy. Yes he's solid defensively, yes he scores some goals, but I think we need to inject energetic speed back into the lineup.

I agree. Giving term for a 35+ contract may not be something Fitz and company are willing to do. Henrique is not my first option but he's a good 2/3C example. I like our top 2 centers, but want to explore beyond Haula as 3C. I've suggested Lindholm in the past (him not doing well in VAN might bring his price down), but he might inevitably become too expensive in FA (the absolute best case might be the Palat contract, 6x6 for Lindholm). Lindholm makes 4.85 now. With Lindholm, you are almost required to change the supporting cast (Siegenthaler traded for zero dollars in return, Bahl stays, Mercer has an elevated role, Holtz + is traded of immediate LHD help (this player is on an ELC or on a contract with 2/3 years remaining). Lindholm is unlikely, but my point is we need a lot more help down the middle, especially if one or both centers miss time next season.

2 years/3m might not even be good deals for Noesen or Trenin (assuming Trenin wants to leave the Avalanche (I wouldn't )

 

[devilsblood]

Maybe 2 years ago is why you brought in a Palat...

This "young team" mantra is past it's expiration date now.

Although the defense is very much in that "young" condition...but the broader team, it's time for some of those players to man up and win games with sheer will.

Jack is still young. The young D. And Nico is a young Captain, with as I state, a tough job.

Not sure how many 25 year old captains have to preside over a 22 year old #1 pick/leading scorer/big personality(was going to say bit of a diva, but that might get guys feathers up here) and oh yeah, also has a his talented fellow hot head younger brother also on the team.

I think part of what I'm saying is, it would be good if Jack takes less of a rock star approach and evolves more to a professional one.

 

[devilsblood]

I agree. Giving term for a 35+ contract may not be something Fitz and company are willing to do. Henrique is not my first option but he's a good 2/3C example. I like our top 2 centers, but want to explore beyond Haula as 3C. I've suggested Lindholm in the past (him not doing well in VAN might bring his price down), but he might inevitably become too expensive in FA (the absolute best case might be the Palat contract, 6x6 for Lindholm). Lindholm makes 4.85 now. With Lindholm, you are almost required to change the supporting cast (Siegenthaler traded for zero dollars in return, Bahl stays, Mercer has an elevated role, Holtz + is traded of immediate LHD help (this player is on an ELC or on a contract with 2/3 years remaining). Lindholm is unlikely, but my point is we need a lot more help down the middle, especially if one or both are centers miss time next season.

2 years/3m might not even be good deals for Noesen or Trenin (assuming Trenin wants to leave the Avalanche (I wouldn't )

Agree we need center help. I don't hate Haula as a center but I prefer him as a wing who can slide over in case of injury.

I'd focus on size, speed, motor though, above skill and even smarts/defensive focus.

 

[theoptimist]

Agree we need center help. I don't hate Haula as a center but I prefer him as a wing who can slide over in case of injury.

I'd focus on size, speed, motor though, above skill and even smarts/defensive focus.

We weren't far off this season. For a long time we were 2-4 points outside of WC2. I don't mind blaming Vitek until October

 

[devilsblood]

We weren't far off this season. For a long time we were 2-4 points outside of WC2. I don't mind blaming Vitek until October

Goalies were clearly a big part of the problem.

The fact that Kahk and 33 year old Jake Allen, came in and played to the level they have should put that debate to rest.

Though the fact that we somehow stink worse with pretty good goal tending does make it clear there are other issues to consider as well.

 

[Based Anime Fan]

A year ago I was making Playoff Avatars, not Dano memes to pass the time. I’m sad now.

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At least you didn't make the R1G1 GDT and completely get flamed in comments, DMs and elsewhere for doing my usual animecrack.

 

[My3Sons]

If the East and more specifically the Metro sucks this bad next year we don't have to do anything but stay healthy to make the playoffs next year.

As horrible as this team was this year, and they were horrible, we still have more wins than the 3rd place team in the Metro. Stay healthy, play a better brand of hockey, try to reduce the exposure of some of young D a little more... that's it. Off course add the necessary role players on the cheap, but I wouldn't risk busting the budget to add players...

This team has to show that its key players can get the job done and take the team to the next level. Next year should be about challenging those key players to take another step forward and if they can't, the team needs a major overhaul.

I think the coach will be the most significant piece added. I think the right coach would elevate Siegenthaler and Marino again. The right game plan will help minimize their mistakes and have the same effect for Luke and Nemec. It will also be interesting to see how they address the second goalie. Kahkonen has been good for NJ despite the win loss record but at this point Fitz is probably forced to get more of a name goalie.

 

[Rhodes 81]

There are a lot of really solid forwards likely to be UFA. More teams that will have money to spend than in recent memory also, but hopefully a bit of a glut of options will drive down the price on some of them.

I would prefer Henrique to Stephenson but I think Stephenson is a good bounceback candidate as well. Lindholm is probably a pipe dream but the platonic ideal of he and Hischier taking the tough minutes from Jack's line or Jack playing wing with one of them in some situations is a nice one to think about.

My franchise mode scenario would be signing Monahan. There's a lot of risk there and he's likely going to end up the biggest fish available which would raise his price, but I've been leaning 35-40% that Fitz is going to go all-in for this next year and then figure out affording the Luke/Nemec contracts later and this is the type of move you might make with that in mind. We're going to have $21 million in cap space next year with Mercer likely to be the only contract that will cost more than he does now.

I think the coach will be the most significant piece added. I think the right coach would elevate Siegenthaler and Marino again. The right game plan will help minimize their mistakes and have the same effect for Luke and Nemec. It will also be interesting to see how they address the second goalie. Kahkonen has been good for NJ despite the win loss record but at this point Fitz is probably forced to get more of a name goalie.

I think all the D would improve by their partners improving. If Hughes and Nemec both make progress towards consistency, I think that improves their partners just as much as it improves them. If Hamilton comes back anywhere close to 100% that will elevate whoever is opposite him.

Fitz could get away with running back Kahkonen and Allen if he hadn't just shouted to the world that he's going to go "big game hunting." It's too much risk to try piecing it together with goalies and then look that wrong again after saying that.

 

[MB3]

for those that complain about Palat's contract, what has it stopped us from doing?

We had a zillion dollars on LTIR this year and didn't use basically any of it. We could have.

It really isn't a big deal. He's overpaid by a few million. Pretend Jack makes $10 and Palat makes $4. Same difference.

Brendan Smith played 60 games, Chris Tierney played 50 games, we've had Shane Bowers and Nick DeSimone and Max Williman and something named Samuel Laberge play for us this season and we were pretty damned close to being a cap team the day the season opened.

Depth pieces that we so sorely missed? Depth defenseman? Henrique and Hall were cheap and available because of how many cap-strung teams there were before the season started. Maybe Fitz coul'dve addressed the physicality/youth/leadership concerns with an RoR contract offer? Or maybe the extra $6m in cap space makes Fitz feel more comfortable in adding Helle in the offseason?

There are a million answers to this question, all of which are significantly better than "3 more years of an 11-goal scoring $6m winger who misses a quarter of every year".

Fair but who says he doesn’t? Hard for only 1 player to do that/change the team mindset on his own.

Since literally nobody has come out and said "Palat is such a big voice for us in the locker room" a single time, it's safe to say he's just a passenger.

 

[JimEIV]

Jack is still young. The young D. And Nico is a young Captain, with as I state, a tough job.

Not sure how many 25 year old captains have to preside over a 22 year old #1 pick/leading scorer/big personality(was going to say bit of a diva, but that might get guys feathers up here) and oh yeah, also has a his talented fellow hot head younger brother also on the team.

I think part of what I'm saying is, it would be good if Jack takes less of a rock star approach and evolves more to a professional one.

23 years old, 306 NHL games isn't exactly young.

Next season is Jack's 6th NHL season. This is prime time for most elite players...you look at any elite player in history, typically their best season comes before 25....and 23 has been a big year for a lot of them. Just go to hockey reference and type any elite name...it's amazing how 15/20 year superstars had their best season around 23.

We're past the young and learning phase for our forwards and we are absolutely in the put up or shut up phase next year.

 

[devilsblood]

23 years old, 306 NHL games isn't exactly young.

Next season is Jack's 6th NHL season. This is prime time for most elite players...you look at any elite player in history, typically their best season comes before 25....and 23 has been a big year for a lot of them. Just go to hockey reference and type any elite name...it's amazing how 15/20 year superstars had their best season around 23.

We're past the young and learning phase for our forwards and we are absolutely in the put up or shut up phase next year.

23 is young. Maturity is not about point totals.

 

[forceten]

I think Jack Hughes scoring at a 100+ point pace for the last 3 seasons means we don't really have to worry about him. The only concern to me is injuries, and can he stay healthy like he mostly did in 2022-23. Had he played all 82 he would have been above 100 points.

 

[AfroThunder396]

23 years old, 306 NHL games isn't exactly young.

Next season is Jack's 6th NHL season. This is prime time for most elite players...you look at any elite player in history, typically their best season comes before 25....and 23 has been a big year for a lot of them. Just go to hockey reference and type any elite name...it's amazing how 15/20 year superstars had their best season around 23.

We're past the young and learning phase for our forwards and we are absolutely in the put up or shut up phase next year.

Are you saying Jack Hughes is a veteran?

 

[JimEIV]

Are you saying Jack Hughes is a veteran?

Pure semantics. Jack is a critical element of this team and is in his prime production years. Any labeling beyond those facts are irrelevant.

 

[britdevil]

Are you saying Jack Hughes is a veteran?

I believe the NHL defines veteran as 24 or 260 professional games.

So yes, Jack is a veteran.

 

[My3Sons]

23 years old, 306 NHL games isn't exactly young.

Next season is Jack's 6th NHL season. This is prime time for most elite players...you look at any elite player in history, typically their best season comes before 25....and 23 has been a big year for a lot of them. Just go to hockey reference and type any elite name...it's amazing how 15/20 year superstars had their best season around 23.

We're past the young and learning phase for our forwards and we are absolutely in the put up or shut up phase next year.

How old are you? A 23 year old "isn't exactly young"? You do know how ridiculous that sounds to anyone over the age of say 30? Are you day drinking again?

 

[JimEIV]

How old are you? A 23 year old "isn't exactly young"? You do know how ridiculous that sounds to anyone over the age of say 30? Are you day drinking again?

Hockey years are worse than dog years.

 

[OmNomNom]

I don’t think that sort of thing really flies in today’s world. You think Jack is intimidated if MacKinnon yelled at him? You’d be better off with a salesman who can convince Jack that defense first would somehow work out better for him personally.

but it HAS been working in Colorado -- it's not the yelling moreso than the team needing to give a crap about doing well. good leadership (be it players, coaches, or GMs) hold everyone to a higher standard. AGAIN, no idea what's really said in locker room, but I really do wish we'd see a bit more passion