Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[theoptimist]

Also want to add a 4C to the wishlist

 

[MultipleMiggs1]

Georgiev has looked decent playing in relief.

Should we consider offering him a contract?

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Georgiev has looked decent playing in relief.

Should we consider offering him a contract?

Absolutely not

 

[Lou Bloom]

I get wanting to improve the defensive play and physical nature of this team but Fiala is an elite winger in his prime who already has built in chemistry with one of your young star centers in Hischier. If you can add a player like that for cheaper than usual due to his RFA status and the Wild's cap crunch then you take someone like him over the much more risky UFA signings.

Fiala just put up 85 points in 82 games while playing the majority of his minutes with Frederick Gaudreau and a rookie (very good one though) in Matt Boldy. The vast majority of his production has been 5v5 where he's the one driving play on his line.

The cost in trade and the cost of Fiala's new contract are definitely fair concerns but Fiala himself is a much better player than any UFA on the market not named Forsberg or Gaudreau and those guys are going to cost a lot more money and are 2 and 3 years older than Fiala respectively.

 

[Bleedred]

Georgiev has looked decent playing in relief.

Should we consider offering him a contract?

He looked more than decent on the game winner in game 3. That was a completely unstoppable shot that he had no chance on whatsoever.

Should we consider offering him a contract to be what? The head of custodians at Prudential Center?

Seriously, what is with people? Georgiev has been getting worse every year he’s been in the league and this year he performed right on par with Devils goalies.

He’s one of those goalies that’s probably sailing away to one of the Euro leagues soon enough.

But since goalie reputations take forever to die, he might have a couple more years left in the league. Just look how long Korpisalo keeps getting brought back. Although, it is with the same team in his case.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I respectfully disagree with a lot here.

1) Fiala is not guaranteed to be moved before he's subject to an offer sheet. The best case scenario for Minnesota -- aside from some ludicrous trade offer from a poor GM -- is an offer sheet from a team like NJ which would give them a top 6 overall pick plus a 2nd and 3rd round pick. This is Kevin Fiala after all, not Kirill Kaprizov or Matt Tkachuk.

2) The chances Jiricek, Nemec and Slafkovsky flop as prospects would have to be the same chances that Fiala falls back from his contract-year career-season and becomes a 60-65 point player next year. There's no guarantee of anything in the world of sports. All three of those draft-eligibles have a far higher upside than Fiala, and they will all be inexpensive and under team control for several seasons. I do agree there's no guarantee the Devils will get one of those three players.

3) The Devils do not need a Kevin Fiala to turn the corner. Sure, he would help -- he's a heck of a player. But he's a luxury. The Devils are already one of the elite NHL teams at scoring off the rush. But they can't score off the cycle because no one is screening the goaltender, banging home rebounds or deflecting pucks in the opposing nets. Again, one improbable statistical anomaly tells a big story -- the Devils were 3rd in the NHL at scoring off the rush last year, but 22nd at scoring off the cycle. This is the biggest discrepancy in the entire NHL for 2021-22 in either direction. Clearly, the Devils have no shortage of skill, but they do have a shortage of interior play.

It is my belief -- which everyone is free to dispute, of course -- that an NHL team is not better off simply getting a 80-point player instead of a 65-point player. I'd have to ask, what type of player are the two players? If the 65-point guy is offering they type of play your team lacks and the 80-point guy was offering more of what you already have, I'd say go for the 65-point guy, who is probably cheaper under the cap, anyway.

Kevin Fiala is a very good hockey player. But he does not have the dominate-every-shift upside of a Jiricek or Slafkovsky, who both potentially fill roles the Devils sorely need. Yes, there is no guarantee Jiricek becomes a star or that Slafkovsky becomes a star -- but these two are potentially far superior to Fiala, and I'm just not willing to take that chance. And although Nemec lacks that sort of dominant upside, he can become a two-way, offensively productive and defensively stalwart all-situations defender, which is still more valuable than Fiala. Because again, there's no guarantee Fiala signs a huge deal with the Devils and scores 82 points again next year, either. So, when weighing best-case scenarios, I'm going to go with the better best case scenarios.

Look, I get the impatience around here to turn the corner. But the Devils are close. Still, Kevin Fiala is a luxury, not a necessity. And the money you'll be paying him will detract from the money available to fill necessities. If Matt Tkachuk becomes available? Sure, I'll trade the #5 overall pick, no sweat. Tkachuk would immediately solve the Devils problems of producing offense down low and of being too easy to play against. But I'm not risking future cup contention on a quick fix which potentially will be damaging in the long run.

1. You’re right but they certainly have to move someone and Fiala certainly seems like the most likely at this point. We also aren’t talking about offersheeting. I don’t think anyone thinks it’s a good idea to give them our unprotected first next year, plus a 2nd and 3rd round pick.
2. Fiala was a 31 goal 68 point player over the 2 seasons prior to this career-contract year. Then put up 33 and 85. Even if he falls off this career year back to about where he was before he’s closer to a 70 point player than a 60 like you’re suggesting. I’m talking about him as a 30+ goal and 75 point guy because I feel like that’s a fair middle ground and bet. Should also add this 85 point season was after a really slow start. I would bet he gets closer to 80 than 60 next season. That other part is also just not true (also should add that Slafkovsky won’t be available at our pick save a lottery win). As much as you don’t like to admit it picks in that range flop all the time and while their ceilings are certainly higher than Fiala odds are at least a couple of the guys in that range won’t ever be as good of a player and it’s even less likely that they’ll reach their full potential. We’ve had these types of discussions before but I think you are generally much to optimistic about prospects in general and don’t quite acknowledge the extent to how many actually don’t turn out.
3. As I said while I do think they type of players they have is part of it, I think it’s more so just the type of game Ruff and the staff have them playing. He wants them playing north-south off the rush hockey. If they wanted to they could certainly have sacrificed some off the rush offense for more off the cycle. But they could use some more interior-oriented forwards.

Not sure why you’re talking about Slafkovsky like there’s any chance he’ll be available at our pick. You and I know full well he won’t be. That would change things a bit for me because as you know I really like him and think he would be a perfect fit with huge potential. I’m not sold on Jiricek but he obviously has nice upside.


Fiala is not just a quick fix. He’s a really good first-liner winger that would add another level to the Devils offense and the type of player it is normally extremely difficult to get. It’s not about forcing some move but it’s very rare to get an opportunity for a legitimate first line winger who’s not old because a team has 12m+ in cap space taken up by buyouts. This is an extremely rare opportunity that the devils could capitalize on.

I’ll forget about all of this if we win the #2 pick tomorrow and can take Slafkovsky. But then maybe we try to work something around Holtz IMO.

 

[BurntToast]

I am going to enjoy my summer and hopefully there will be some progress by the fall. The Ruff situation is weird, I wasn’t a fan of some of the comments made by Fitz. WTF does he mean, that Ruff is on his level?! I blame the ownership group.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Also want to add a 4C to the wishlist

I think Hischier will be capable there once we bring in a better 3C.

I am going to enjoy my summer and hopefully there will be some progress by the fall. The Ruff situation is weird, I wasn’t a fan of some of the comments made by Fitz. WTF does he mean, that Ruff is on his level?! I blame the ownership group.

No he’s just saying they work together. People are taking way too much from that.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

My one and only lottery sim for the yr

View attachment 543604

Please happen tomorrow

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Totally agree. We have gatherEd talent and skill , now we need to fine tune the roster and supplement our stars / core.
Id rather have a very well rounded 65 point guy than a 85 point one demential guy at this point. And have more cap room left over to possibly have two of the 65 point guys or left over cap room .
I also think the potential of Jiricek or Nemen would overall help the team more so than Fiala . Yes Fiala is a very good player but I’d rather have another stud RHD to go along with Hughes and Hamilton . Winger is not as impactful , unless you get a Panarin or someone that drives play from the wing and those are rare.
Now if trading Holtz instead of the first rounder…. I’m not sure what to think.
I just don’t want to paint ourselves in a corner where we are capped out and our roster is constructed poorly.

Fiala is well rounded. This core isn’t enough. We have some really nice pieces but we’re not at the supplementing step yet. IMO we need a good goalie, a top line winger and a #1 LD (hopefully Luke Hughes) before the core is good enough. Then we can find tune around those guys.

The potential of those guys will only help the team more if they actually reach their full potential which often doesn’t happen.

We can afford to pay Fiala and still make other moves going forward.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I'm much more interested in the goalie for now. Fix that and then see what the cap and tradeable picks/players looks like and go from there.

The thing and why some people are interested in jumping on this is because it’s a rare situation where a very good player who isn’t old is only available because of a rare situation. This doesn’t happen all the time. It’s only because Minnesota has 12m+ I’m buyouts against there cap. Otherwise he wouldn’t even be available.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Fiala is well rounded. This core isn’t enough. We have some really nice pieces but we’re not at the supplementing step yet. IMO we need a good goalie, a top line winger and a #1 LD (hopefully Luke Hughes) before the core is good enough. Then we can find tune around those guys.

The potential of those guys will only help the team more if they actually reach their full potential which often doesn’t happen.

We can afford to pay Fiala and still make other moves going forward.

Agreed, for all the talk about the defense and goaltending (and rightfully so) the offense only finished 19th in scoring this season. Fiala finished top 25 in scoring on the season while playing 2nd line with Freddy Gaudreau and a rookie in Matt Boldy. The idea that a Devils team that just finished bottom 5 for a 2nd straight season and bottom 10 for a 4th straight season can't use a player like that on their roster is insane to me.

Not to mention that everyone talking up all the UFAs on the market seem to ignore how bad the free agency route tends to go for most teams. There's no guarantee you'll get the guy you want in the open market and there's no guarantee he won't end up like most UFA signings and end up underperforming expectations. With Fiala it'll likely be a sign and trade which means you have that contract assurance that you'll get your guy for the money you want.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Agreed, for all the talk about the defense and goaltending (and rightfully so) the offense only finished 19th in scoring this season. Fiala finished top 25 in scoring on the season while playing 2nd line with Freddy Gaudreau and a rookie in Matt Boldy. The idea that a Devils team that just finished bottom 5 for a 2nd straight season and bottom 10 for a 4th straight season can't use a player like that on their roster is insane to me.

Not to mention that everyone talking up all the UFAs on the market seem to ignore how bad the free agency route tends to go for most teams. There's no guarantee you'll get the guy you want in the open market and there's no guarantee he won't end up like most UFA signings and end up underperforming expectations. With Fiala it'll likely be a sign and trade which means you have that contract assurance that you'll get your guy for the money you want.

Yes and he’s 2-3 years younger than the guys that are hitting UFA.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Agreed, for all the talk about the defense and goaltending (and rightfully so) the offense only finished 19th in scoring this season. Fiala finished top 25 in scoring on the season while playing 2nd line with Freddy Gaudreau and a rookie in Matt Boldy. The idea that a Devils team that just finished bottom 5 for a 2nd straight season and bottom 10 for a 4th straight season can't use a player like that on their roster is insane to me.

Not to mention that everyone talking up all the UFAs on the market seem to ignore how bad the free agency route tends to go for most teams. There's no guarantee you'll get the guy you want in the open market and there's no guarantee he won't end up like most UFA signings and end up underperforming expectations. With Fiala it'll likely be a sign and trade which means you have that contract assurance that you'll get your guy for the money you want.

The idea has to be to get this offense into the top 10 in the league and another impact forward goes a long way towards that. Plus more weapons for hopefully a vastly improved PP.

I think by and large you have to trust the blue liners we have (really only room to add a 3RD) and bet on better goaltending and new coaching cleaning some shit up with the game plan to cut down on a lot of goals against.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Yes. It’s a message board and we are all too sparse with our comments (except @Guttersniped but I digress). I just don’t think you can realistically say the team has a core now and needs to supplement if there is no goalie in thr corr. I wasn’t being snarky. I was posting around work calls today.

Well yea, I didn't mean to sound like an ass either but that post sounded like you were saying we shouldn't make any moves because we don't have a goalie yet. My post clearly said, we have a core and all we need is a goalie and we'd easily be in the playoffs. We can't just wait around for a goalie to magically appear in the system.

Yes, ideally we'd already have a goalie, but we don't so no point in discussing that and like I already said, we can't wait for one to just appear.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Not sure why you’re talking about Slafkovsky like there’s any chance he’ll be available at our pick. You and I know full well he won’t be. That would change things a bit for me because as you know I really like him and think he would be a perfect fit with huge potential. I’m not sold on Jiricek but he obviously has nice upside.

I’ll forget about all of this if we win the #2 pick tomorrow and can take Slafkovsky. But then maybe we try to work something around Holtz IMO.

Yea, let's wait a bit till we say we have no shot at Slavkofsky, just to be fair to everyone lol. You just never know...we might win.

 

[FooteBahl]

Can this please be the last year where tonight is our “Stanley Cup!!”

 

[My3Sons]

Well yea, I didn't mean to sound like an ass either but that post sounded like you were saying we shouldn't make any moves because we don't have a goalie yet. My post clearly said, we have a core and all we need is a goalie and we'd easily be in the playoffs. We can't just wait around for a goalie to magically appear in the system.

Yes, ideally we'd already have a goalie, but we don't so no point in discussing that and like I already said, we can't wait for one to just appear.

I just want them to address goalie before other positions this offseason.

 

[NjdPass]

Ok what if we send the 1st pick to CHI? Patty Kane or Debrincat? Just a thought.

 

[JimEIV]

If we were 10th in offense we still would have missed the playoffs...Badly

Washington was 10th in the league with 270 Goals For - We had 248 Goals For - So 22 goals more to put us where Washington was...

Problem was we gave up 307 goals... and that is a -37 Goal differential even with 22 more goals -

NO team makes the playoffs or is even a bubble team with a -37 goal differential. +30 was lowest Goal Differential of the top 8 in our Conference. We were actually -59

NO amount of offense can make up for 307 Goals Against... And I would argue no amount goaltending can either... A team has to be structurally nonexistent to gives up 300+ goals even with a garbage can in net. That is 1980's stuff - We have never given up 300 goals in an 82 game schedule before this season...That is not just goaltending that is a fundamental problem.

 

[JimEIV]

dupe

 

[Better Call Sal]

Haven't reached the interview portion yet but one of my favorites, Jason Arnott, is the guest on Cam's podcast this week.

 

[RangerDoggo]

Can this please be the last year where tonight is our “Stanley Cup!!”

Something tells me it won't....

 

[glenwo2]

Oh I know that. He was just talking like hiring Trotz guarentees that we become a winning team.


Ummm he was an interim head coach. That happens. He filled in when the head coach was let go and then went back to being an assistant when they hired a new head coach. Sure that has happened a lot of times before.

Sorry but the word "interim" doesn't mean jack-shiznit here.

He was the Head Coach of the Devils, whether he "Filled in" or "filled out".

It doesn't matter because his title was Head Coach Of The Devils after Hyney-head left.

And then he was moved (basically) to Assistant Coach instead of being Jettisoned into the sun like he should've been.

That happened so your initial argument does not hold water. Sorry, bud.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Ok what if we send the 1st pick to CHI? Patty Kane or Debrincat? Just a thought.

I doubt it The pick could be had but the Devils would have to get a high end cost controlled asset back.