Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[JimEIV]

Mercer in his age 19-20 rookie season had 17 goals and 42 points in 82 games. Nico in his age 18-19 rookie season had 20 goals and 52 points in 82 games and had 60 points in 70 games this year. But sure, Mercer is the one who's shown signs of being 'elite'.

Never said Mercer is showing signs of being elite? Not sure where you got that....I consistently have said we'll see what turns out to be... meaning his ceiling...I don't think he's from Nico at all.

Nico had 52 points playing with a Hart Trophy winner on his left side and best goal scorer NJ has in 10 years on his right sight for the entire season...Hall and Palmieri combined for 63 goals that season....wtf do we even have close to that on this team?

 

[Billdo]

I've been here for almost 14 years and he's EXACTLY the same as he's always been. The only thing that changes is the player he harps on.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Nico had 36 points in his last 31 games without a functioning PP. If you wanted him to be better, he was better. The blatant trolling (which is somehow allowed to go on 24/7 here) would be better if it wasn’t so stupid and divorced from reality. You could concern troll about Jack when his numbers weren’t there. This is just pure idiocy.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Weren't we having a discussion just the other day about why more people don't join/post? Well, it's probably because of annoying bullshit arguments like this that are stirred up by the same posters all the time. A person would have to be insane to want to walk into this madhouse.

It's definitely a chore to be here for pretty much anything other than a GDT or the Draft. Not to sound too much like "Back in my day!", but the vibe is VERY different than it was when I joined 11 or so years ago.

 

[JimEIV]

It's definitely a chore to be here for pretty much anything other than a GDT or the Draft. Not to sound too much like "Back in my day!", but the vibe is VERY different than it was when I joined 11 or so years ago.

The air of superiority still existed then....

So if you said something negative about a prospect, an organizational move or player...no sweat, not a big deal....we were used to flop picks but we probably goings to win the division, win 45 games and be won of the better teams on the East...that was 2010....

Now those prospects, players and organizational moves can't flop...that's all there is...there is no Elias and Parise or even Gionta or Gomez or Paul Martin to make you think it'll be alright. There is nothing.

Now say something negative and it's a f***ing crisis and everyone is triggered..

 

[TrufleShufle]

The air of superiority still existed then....

So if you said something negative about a prospect, an organizational move or player...no sweat, not a big deal....

Now say something negative and it's a f***ing crisis and everyone is triggered..

People say negative things about everyone. There isn't player, coach, GM that has been with the Devils that this board hasn't said a negative thing about at one time or another.

When someone is known for that being their thing though, that's when people get annoyed.

 

[None Shall Pass]

You ever think about how one of our owners slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars live on TV?

 

[JimEIV]

People say negative things about everyone. There isn't player, coach, GM that has been with the Devils that this board hasn't said a negative thing about at one time or another.

When someone is known for that being their thing though, that's when people get annoyed.

That was never "my thing" until the Kovalchuk signing .... looking at your join date you weren't here then...but I had been on this board for more than 10 years by then..even before my join date listed.

You could come here and say yeah I know you watch Peter Vrans a lot and I know you've said he has tremendous skill but I don't think that is an NHL player ...and you discuss why. Then keep tabs on who was wright most often

Now there is no discuss why...the faithful comes out with their pitchfork to do their own schtick....

It's funny that I get accused of *doing "my thing" when your reaction to anything negative I say is so freaking predictable. You keep doing your thing and I'll keep doing mine

 

[Triumph]

Never said Mercer is showing signs of being elite? Not sure where you got that....I consistently have said we'll see what turns out to be... meaning his ceiling...I don't think he's from Nico at all.

Nico had 52 points playing with a Hart Trophy winner on his left side and best goal scorer NJ has in 10 years on his right sight for the entire season...Hall and Palmieri combined for 63 goals that season....wtf do we even have close to that on this team?

See, here's your problem right here. Nico played on PP2 that year. He was bad at the power play then, and arguably still is. So this post contains one blatant lie - that Nico played with Hall and Palmieri all season, when Nico played 369 minutes with Hall and Bratt and 290 minutes with Hall and Palmieri - and that 52 points somehow isn't good, when Nico was 32nd in 5v5 points per 60 in the entire league. You do not understand how and when goals are scored.

 

[Triumph]

Very weird to call a mistaken point on who played RW for how long "a lie".

It's seriously weird...like helmet wearing, window licking, short bus weird.

It has to be a lie. Nobody who watched that team in 2018 would forget that Bratt played with Hall and Hischier for long stretches. So you must be lying. It's very easy to just lie about stuff like that. Here's a trick: upvote this post if you remember that Bratt played a ton with Nico and Hall.

Not addressing the fact that Nico was top 50 in 5v5 scoring rate? Nope, not at all. Nico should've just come out and had a better rookie season than fitting in perfectly with the MVP of the league.

 

[My3Sons]

Yeah I think that dude is high.... I'd take that shit and run laughing my ass off...from a value perspective.

From a winning perspective that does nothing for us now. I would only trade Nico for impact player.

That’s a big reversal from when you said the return on a Hischier trade didn’t matter. What changed?

 

[Azathoth]

You ever think about how one of our owners slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars live on TV?

Hahah I never thought about it that way. So I suppose you could say Will Smith owns a piece of the rock in more ways than one.

Also, kudos for posting something other than asinine Nico valuations.

 

[njdevil26]

You ever think about how one of our owners slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars live on TV?

Just like that jackass Fanatics guy Rubin, Will Smith probably has no idea he owns part of the Devils.

But if we get some jumbotron material of Will Smith with a Devils logo on his shirt/head smacking the opposing team/Chris Rock I'm cool with it.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Since he came into the league, Nico is in the top 15% of the league in 5v5 points/60. Ahead of guys like Eichel, DeBrincat, Backstrom, and Kopitar.

Yes he hasn't been great on the PP, but I don't care. I'd rather have him be naturally good at the hard part, and then let the easy part come.

Hall had 55 ES points in 2018 and Hischier had 46 - compare that to the year before when Hall was centered by Zajac, he had 53 *total* points and only 38 at ES.

 

[JimEIV]

That’s a big reversal from when you said the return on a Hischier trade didn’t matter. What changed?

It's not really a reversal...the first time I ever floated the trade Nico idea was in regards to JT Miller and Garland as a package, during the season - when you could've gotten 4&1/2 years out of Garland and a 1&1/2 out of Miller ...and my thought then was take a mediocre piece that we have 3 of and fill holes with established players in other areas. Clearly would get more production and two assets...if you can't keep Miller so be it trade him at the deadline.

Makes the team better immediately, fills holes and addresses weakness....one shot

That certainly isn't a prospect trade...and Miller certainly was an impact player when I said that.

My argument was never for a building blocks trade...I have never been interested in more picks....we don't use them very well to begin with.

 

[JimEIV]

It has to be a lie. Nobody who watched that team in 2018 would forget that Bratt played with Hall and Hischier for long stretches. So you must be lying. It's very easy to just lie about stuff like that. Here's a trick: upvote this post if you remember that Bratt played a ton with Nico and Hall.

Not addressing the fact that Nico was top 50 in 5v5 scoring rate? Nope, not at all. Nico should've just come out and had a better rookie season than fitting in perfectly with the MVP of the league.

Dude now your just making shit up... I never said anything negative about Nico's rookie season...in fact if you go back and look I didn't comment almost at all about Nico...I didn't become frustrated with Nico until year 3 with no improvement.

 

[Triumph]

Dude now your just making shit up... I never said anything negative about Nico's rookie season...in fact if you go back and look I didn't comment almost at all about Nico...I didn't become frustrated with Nico until year 3 with no improvement.

You have to actually follow the thread of the conversation. Your intiial reply to me, which has been deleted, was addressing the fact that you didn't remember Bratt playing with Hischier and Hall, because what kind of Devils fan is gonna remember the season with two rookies playing with the MVP of the league. But you never addressed the other thing I said, which was about Nico being one of the top 5v5 scorers, rate-wise, in the league. So I'm not making anything up, you just chose to ignore the one thing, because you have no rejoinder to that. You criticized Nico's scoring as a rookie just now, and it's absurd. It's an absurd criticism. You've also given the game away here by claiming that you thought Nico was fine in his rookie year and are now criticizing it. Bad faith all the way down.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

the Devils have literally been pining over "Franchise centers" for multiple decades. It looks like they FINALLY have at least one and maybe two to a lesser extent, who both signed longterm, with one being the captain, and now we are going to ship them out?!

 

[JimEIV]

You have to actually follow the thread of the conversation. Your intiial reply to me, which has been deleted, was addressing the fact that you didn't remember Bratt playing with Hischier and Hall, because what kind of Devils fan is gonna remember the season with two rookies playing with the MVP of the league. But you never addressed the other thing I said, which was about Nico being one of the top 5v5 scorers, rate-wise, in the league. So I'm not making anything up, you just chose to ignore the one thing, because you have no rejoinder to that. You criticized Nico's scoring as a rookie just now, and it's absurd. It's an absurd criticism.

You are seriously wrong I never criticized Nico's rookie scoring...you are completely misinterpreting what I said..

My point was Mercer's 42 points on a 27 win team isn't far off from Nico s 52 points on a playoff team playing with an MVP 93 point Winger....

That is clearly not criticizing Nico's rookie season and it is defending Mercer's 42 points....I honestly don't know how you interpreti t any other way?

Again this Nico thing started in year 3 ...in fact I super excited when he played 82 games his rookie season and said so...he was so small and weak I thought that in itself was an accomplishment....

When he didn't really improve his numbers his 2nd season I was still ok...lots of term oil, and injured Hall, a sophomore slump perhaps, shit happens...year 3 shit kept happening with no improvement...that when I started talking about Nico not being good enough.

 

[devilsblood]

We still had the best players we had drafted over a long period of time, yes, that’s how teams works.

The debate is nonsense. Utter nonsense. There’s one team. I don’t root for a time period. And both GMs were pushed out of a window. It also warps (some) people’s analysis of all sorts of things to a ridiculous degree too.

There’s more continuity between the GMs’ tenure then (some) people want to admit. A couple people left immediately but Shero didn’t particularly aggressively house clean so the staff more slowly changed over time as more guys left, aged out and more additions were made. It took years to change.

It seems this post should be directed at any of the numerous "Lou left the team in utter shambles" posts.

But I enjoy debating these various subjects so forgive me if I continue to do so.

 

[JrFischer54]

Never said Mercer is showing signs of being elite? Not sure where you got that....I consistently have said we'll see what turns out to be... meaning his ceiling...I don't think he's from Nico at all.

Nico had 52 points playing with a Hart Trophy winner on his left side and best goal scorer NJ has in 10 years on his right sight for the entire season...Hall and Palmieri combined for 63 goals that season....wtf do we even have close to that on this team?

Not to mention one is 1oa and the other is what 17oa?

 

[Triumph]

You are seriously wrong I never criticized Nico's rookie scoring...you are completely misinterpreting what I said..

My point was Mercer's 42 points on a 27 win team isn't far off from Nico s 52 points on a playoff team playing with an MVP 93 point Winger....

It's much farther off because Mercer is in his D+2 whereas Nico was in his D+1, Mercer played in a higher scoring environment, and yes, he played with a player like Hall in Jack Hughes. The 2018 Devils scored 243 goals, the 2022 Devils scored 245 goals. Moreover, Nico played a much bigger role,

That is clearly not criticizing Nico's rookie season and it is defending Mercer's 42 points....I honestly don't know how you interpreti t any other way?

Yeah, how could I get that wrong. Geez. I'm not sure how I interpreted you as attacking Nico.

Again this Nico thing started in year 3 ...in fact I super excited when he played 82 games his rookie season and said so...he was so small and weak I thought that in itself was an accomplishment....

When he did really improve his numbers 2nd season I was still ok...lots of term oil, and injured Hall, a sophomore slump perhaps, shit happens...year 3 shit kept happening with no improvement...that when I started talking about Nico not being good enough.

And then you never stopped even though Nico had a really good season this year. He had to yank around Zacha most of the year, when he played with Bratt they were of course great together because Bratt is a great player, and without Bratt he still managed to tread water.

Have we had a week this summer where a discussion hasn’t been completely derailed by obvious trolling. Not to mention distorting stats wildly to justify some dumb narrative.

Yeah, I'll give it a rest when the actual offseason starts. There's really nothing to talk about right now which is why I'm indulging it.

 

[TrufleShufle]

That was never "my thing" until the Kovalchuk signing .... looking at your join date you weren't here then...but I had been on this board for more than 10 years by then..even before my join date listed.

You could come here and say yeah I know you watch Peter Vrans a lot and I know you've said he has tremendous skill but I don't think that is an NHL player ...and you discuss why. Then keep tabs on who was wright most often

Now there is no discuss why...the faithful comes out with their pitchfork to do their own schtick....

It's funny that I get accused of *doing "my thing" when your reaction to anything negative I say is so freaking predictable. You keep doing your thing and I'll keep doing mine

If my thing is saying "you have a point" when saying stuff that makes sense, and then saying "it's your thing" when you post random stats unprompted because this board has gone 2 pages without talking about something you've said, then guilty as charged.

 

[Saugus]

That was never "my thing" until the Kovalchuk signing .... looking at your join date you weren't here then...but I had been on this board for more than 10 years by then..even before my join date listed.

You could come here and say yeah I know you watch Peter Vrans a lot and I know you've said he has tremendous skill but I don't think that is an NHL player ...and you discuss why. Then keep tabs on who was wright most often

Now there is no discuss why...the faithful comes out with their pitchfork to do their own schtick....

It's funny that I get accused of *doing "my thing" when your reaction to anything negative I say is so freaking predictable. You keep doing your thing and I'll keep doing mine

I don't think you're a troll Jim. You're a reflexive contrarian with some baffling opinions, but not a troll.

And that's fine. We need some people who don't run with the traffic, or else we'll just be agreeing about everything here. That might be even worse than the endless circular arguments we do have.

 

[Buggsy]

Not to mention one is 1oa and the other is what 17oa?

What does their draft position have to do with any of this conversation?

If Mercer becomes what Hischier is now is he a great player because he was picked 17?

Jim is calling Hischier mediocre. Is that because he was picked at 1?