Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[MadDevil]

Oh, we're relitigating our drafting? Must be a Tuesday.

 

[Guadana]

I'm just hoping that Tom will give more power to Castron in making the picks. His two drafts have been more like latter-day Lou/Conte drafts than Ray's.

meh. People overthinking Shero drafts. Devils were in drastic problem with defense all starting Shero years and it growed year after year. What Shero did with it? Drafted Zacha and Mcleod over good defensemen, didn`t spend good or middle picks for defensemen before Smith and 2019 draft. Even when he drafted Smith, he prefered small defenseman with meh skating. Walsh was year before. People remembered Bratt and Sharangovich, (picks were great, I`m in) but forget how he did try to find rare great swiss goalie or drafted another meh NA avarage or below avarage goalie like Cormier or Brady. Was Baumgartner a good pick? He was not, but did Shero made some questionable picks? He did. Because like Fitz, Shero trust his scouts. Like Fitz did when he drafted Hurtig. That picks hurts my brain. But it was a trust to his own scouts.
Btw his two drafts were better in the first rounds. Because Luke Hughes as 4th pick is much better than Zacha as 5th, Holtz as 7th pick is much better than Zacha. Mercer is much better than Mcleod, but he was drafted later. Malek and Daws are much better goalie picks than Shero did. Only Blackwood from second round was better, but we know how good he is now. Fitz even didn`t have a shot at good goalies in second rounds, more over part of his second picks were traded by Shero before.

I`m not a fan of Fitzy strategy of drafting, but even his Vilen`s pick was better than all Shero`s defensive picks in his first three drafts. Even Edwards as playmaking defenseman with high risks is lookin better when you try to understand logic - If he will pan out - with his skating he will be better at least.
I`m not saying Shero was bad in drafting, but he made a lot of mistakes. He didn`t understand real problem of franchise, and sometimes he put his capital in strange actives. Fitz made his own mistakes, but he deffinetely trust his scouts, he would never drafted Mukh or Stillman if he didn`t trust his scouts. He would go with rankings. With Mukh it goes well for now, with Stillman it goes not well for now. But did Shero trust his scouts with Zacha or especially Mcleod... with Mcleod I believe he have no plan and decide to trade down because everybody he wants were drafted in the moment. Late picks? They were great. Did I give Shero a credit for that? No, I will not. He svcks when he was Devil gm and doesnt understand what is a problem, what he should do and how he can handle the problems. He trsuted his scouts - I believe he did. But I saw Fitz did it too. And I would say it`s look like he trust them even more.

 

[MauDevils]

Oh, we're relitigating our drafting? Must be a Tuesday.

Tedenby Tuesday's.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I'm just hoping that Tom will give more power to Castron in making the picks. His two drafts have been more like latter-day Lou/Conte drafts than Ray's.

I don't think that's how it really works. Yes, obviously there is level of trust/authority but not in the way you're thinking. The GM sets the standard and a blueprint of what kind of players he wants, and then the scouts go find those players who fit those criteria. And this is why I'm kind of worried, Fitz drafting style has not looked very good. If for some reason you think it's not on the gm, just look at the drastic differences in the drafting from shero to fitz with largely the same scouting staff.

 

[Triumph]

What do mean arbitrary endpoints? Goals is a made up category? A season is an arbitrary endpoint? He was top 90 in the league in goals 4 out 6 seasons he played here what is arbitrary about that?

'He was top 90 in the league in goals 4 out of 6 seasons he played here, what is arbitrary about that?'

You're right, nothing at all is arbitrary about that. You're right, Henrique was a 1st line forward, on some of the shittiest offenses ever put together. Hooray for you. The Devils didn't draft a 1st line forward for 11 years.

 

[theoptimist]

I’m worried about not improving our defence at our forward positions. Seems like every good team has a line or at least 2/3 forwards that are good defensively . Someome we can put out there when the other team is makig a push and has momentum and can calm things down by stopping an onslaught. Hopefully we can trade Zacha and Johnson and replace them with more defensively apt forwards. I’m not saying a defensive specialist that is useless offensively but at least decent defensively . Or even players like a Motte on our 3/4 line. A guy that is good defensively, good skater , gives it his all , can win board battles . However , we just don’t have room for roster players like that when we already have Bastian , McLeod Boqvist Johnson Zacha Tatar . Just no room .

Trocheck would be nice but this isnt a buffet

 

[goonybird]

Devils drafted a linesman (Kory Nagy) who lines'd more games than all but maybe 4 guys drafted in that era played actual games

 

[JimEIV]

More arbitrary stuff...
Henrique is aging pretty well too...

from 2018 through 2022 Adam Henrique is 86th in the league in goals and 136th in points

And some random endpoints

Same time frame our 2017 #1 overall was 129th in goals and 121st in points.

Bratt same time 2018 through this year...155th in goals and 132nd in points

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

We’re talking about Adam Henrique now

 

[JimEIV]

Blake Coleman is actually 116th in goals from 2018 through 2022. Surprised he was that high.

Old man Parise is 108th in goals from 2018 through 2022 on his last leg. That's 33 through 37 years old for Zach.

 

[MadDevil]

Even if Rico was a legitimate top line forward the fact that he was the only forward even close to being one we drafted over the course of a decade is not really something to crow about.

 

[njdevils1982]

We’re talking about Adam Henrique now

at least we aint talkin' 'bout practice...


better yet,.... aint talkin' 'bout love

 

[Triumph]

More arbitrary stuff...
Henrique is aging pretty well too...

from 2018 through 2022 Adam Henrique is 86th in the league in goals and 136th in points

And some random endpoints

Same time frame our 2017 #1 overall was 129th in goals and 121st in points.

Bratt same time 2018 through this year...155th in goals and 132nd in points

f***in great stuff, bro. Great findings. Nothing at all about the fact that Henrique made the NHL in his D+4 whereas Hischier was here D+1 and Bratt D+2, but really interesting stuff, 121st in points, wow.

Henrique was on waivers, anyone could've had him for free. He's okay. He doesn't kill penalties anymore. He'll score some goals. He had a special run here in 2012, he's 32 years old, if he could've been the 5th or 6th best forward on the Devils for several years, instead of 1st or 2nd, they could've had something going with him.

 

[Guttersniped]

We’re talking about Adam Henrique now

The argument started over someone calling him a top line player, which does seem a bit much, but now it seems to have moved to just being about him scoring goals.

He always was a nice finisher. Never got a ton of pucks on net, which capped his goals, but the guy could always finish. He got 30 goals that one season by shooting 20.1%. He has a career 15.2% shooting %.

You probably need more than one season of 30 goals or more than 50 points (he scored that twice) to be considered a top line LW though.

Is there shame associated with the “Top Six” or “Middle Six” designations?

 

[Hisch13r]

Is there shame associated with the “Top Six” or “Middle Six” designations?

Of course there is shame in those designations. If he conceded that then he’d be conceding the point that Lou drafted no 1st liners for a decade and that makes Lou look bad. Nothing to make Lou look bad.

 

[Guttersniped]

Of course there is shame in those designations. If he conceded that then he’d be conceding the point that Lou drafted no 1st liners for a decade and that makes Lou look bad. Nothing to make Lou look bad.

Well, you did argue that Blake Coleman was 1st line player 5v5, so everyone can be happy now!

Peace on earth and goodwill to all Devils fans!

See how easy that is.

 

[Hisch13r]

Well, you did argue that Blake Coleman was 1st line player 5v5, so everyone can be happy now!

Peace on earth and goodwill to all Devils fans!

See how easy that is.

I believe I said borderline but that is a good point. For 2 years Blake was arguably a 1st liner. Problem solved

 

[Saugus]

Tedenby Tuesday's.

Sounds like a weekly special at Applebee's.

 

[My3Sons]

Sounds like a weekly special at Applebee's.

More like Buffalo Wild Wings I think

 

[NJDevs26]

Even if Rico was a legitimate top line forward the fact that he was the only forward even close to being one we drafted over the course of a decade is not really something to crow about.

Even for this place this is a weird argument - so Henrique was a first line forward just because he's better than 90th in the NHL in goals (which is also a counting stat...that shows he's more durable than quite a few guys who scored more)?

Averages and per 82 game numbers are usually more accurate indicators overall. Top line players don't average 46 points a season, at least not guys who should be on a top line.

 

[Oneiro]

If you top out at 51 points in your rookie season, and you've been pretty healthy...You're not a top line player.

The nature of that kind of argument (among the top 90?) tells you all you need to know about the one making it.

 

[MadDevil]

I will give Conte credit though for throwing people off the scent of Rico by drafting Tedenby, Burlon, and Cormier ahead of him.

 

[Bcap88]

Lol you guys are still feeding into Jim, the only guy who complains about the state of the franchise yet doesn’t offer any opinions on how things should change but will pound the rotary phone and scream lou is goat and third liners are king

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

Lol you guys are still feeding into Jim, the only guy who complains about the state of the franchise yet doesn’t offer any opinions on how things should change but will pound the rotary phone and scream lou is goat and third liners are king

There you go, fill the team with 3rd liners then

 

[glenwo2]

the issue is idk if NJ.com is gonna pay him well enough, if someone else comes calling

the effort is clearly visible, and i'm sure he'll be more noticed once the regular season goes down. hell, he might get scoops for us during the offseason to get noticed

Did NJ.com pay TG "well enough" for 14 years before the NHL came calling?

Come on now...

Maybe YEARS down the road (like TG) as Ryan gains a reputation in certain circles, that the NHL or whomever would come a-callin'.

But not now or next year....or next...or next....or next....

It's just not how things happen.

YEARS of experience is required first.

TG got that in spades which is why the NHL wanted him 'cause they have an entire body of work to make their decision to go after him.

Ryan does not so why would anyone with deep pockets come and try to steal him away?