Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[StevenToddIves]

i'm just sayin he could be had for less

People act like DeBrincat is not getting north of $8 million per once you give up prime assets for him. Is he better than Fiala? Yes. But I still don't get the mentality of everyone going all ga-ga every time a good forward hits the market like an eleven year old at a Bieber concert.

The Devils are one season away from a top 6 of: Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Mercer, Sharangovich, Holtz.

The Devils are two seasons away from a top 6 of 8 players: those 6, plus Slafkovsky and Gritsyuk.

I mean, that's just sick talent. If we shore up the goal, defending and bottom 6? That's a top 6-plus which could legit be among the best in the NHL, and perhaps the best in the Eastern Conference as things currently stand. And that's exactly the point -- this Devils team has a core which contend for multiple Stanley Cups if they essentially improve every area aside from the top 6, which will be almost insanely talented once we draft Slafkovsky.

Folks, I'm fine trading #2 overall and Holtz if Cale Makar or Andrei Vasilevskiy are the guy we're getting back. I'm fine if it's Leon Draisaitl and I'm fine if it's David Pastrnak. Of course, none of these guys are available to be traded for.

But Brock Boeser was not the missing link, and Kevin Fiala was not the missing link, and Alex DeBrincat was not the missing link. All three of those guys represented more of what NJ already has in an area we already have it.

Let's fix the situation in goal. Let's get a 3rd D-pairing. Let's maximize a return on Smith, Zacha and Johnsson. Let's get some new coaching. Let's sign a UFA F who can help down low like Nichushkin or Niederreiter, at far lower cost with no assets given. And let's keep our top prospects and picks... for now.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Because Tkachuk is a better player and much better fit.
And I would feel more comfortable in locking him up long-term as explained above.

We shouldn’t be trading for any of these guys though without being certain there will be a long-term extension.

This team is in no spot to be looking at roster fits when their primary goal should be to get better hockey players period if it makes sense, and yes Alex DeBrincat makes sense for them, and I'd argue getting an elite sniper is equally as important as getting a elite power forward. There's no sure thing that Holtz will be that elite sniper since he's still a prospect even though I think he can be. A line of DeBrincat-Hughes-Mercer next year would be equally as disgusting as Tkachuk-Hughes-Mercer or whoever winds up being the 1RW.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

People act like DeBrincat is not getting north of $8 million per once you give up prime assets for him. Is he better than Fiala? Yes. But I still don't get the mentality of everyone going all ga-ga every time a good forward hits the market like an eleven year old at a Bieber concert.

The Devils are one season away from a top 6 of: Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Mercer, Sharangovich, Holtz.

The Devils are two seasons away from a top 6 of 8 players: those 6, plus Slafkovsky and Gritsyuk.

I mean, that's just sick talent. If we shore up the goal, defending and bottom 6? That's a top 6-plus which could legit be among the best in the NHL, and perhaps the best in the Eastern Conference as things currently stand. And that's exactly the point -- this Devils team has a core which contend for multiple Stanley Cups if they essentially improve every area aside from the top 6, which will be almost insanely talented once we draft Slafkovsky.

Folks, I'm fine trading #2 overall and Holtz if Cale Makar or Andrei Vasilevskiy are the guy we're getting back. I'm fine if it's Leon Draisaitl and I'm fine if it's David Pastrnak. Of course, none of these guys are available to be traded for.

But Brock Boeser was not the missing link, and Kevin Fiala was not the missing link, and Alex DeBrincat was not the missing link. All three of those guys represented more of what NJ already has in an area we already have it.

Let's fix the situation in goal. Let's get a 3rd D-pairing. Let's maximize a return on Smith, Zacha and Johnsson. Let's get some new coaching. Let's sign a UFA F who can help down low like Nichushkin or Niederreiter, at far lower cost with no assets given. And let's keep our top prospects and picks... for now.

24 year old 40 goal scorers are always available (also on pace for 50 in the shortened year btw), I forgot lol. DeBrincat's play style is tailor made for Jack Hughes. I'll be fine with whatever they do but I'm sick of people just dismissing players that are elite talents because somehow we have them on our roster or have to wait for them? This team is in no position to wait another 3-5 years for guys in their top 6 to develop. Their goaltending shit the bed last year when massive improvement could've been made which I totally understand but you just can't tell a fanbase who's seen 1 playoff win in 10 years to wait a little longer. Now if you told me that they should do something stupid and trade the 2nd overall for J.T Miller? I'd laugh in someone's face.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

This team is in no spot to be looking at roster fits when their primary goal should be to get better hockey players period and I'd argue getting an elite sniper is equally as important as getting a elite power forward. There's no sure thing that Holtz will be that elite sniper since he's still a prospect even though I think he can be. A line of DeBrincat-Hughes-Mercer next year would be equally as disgusting as Tkachuk-Hughes-Mercer or whoever winds up being the 1RW.

No it wouldn’t be. Tkachuk is a whole tier above Debrincat. He’s easily better and we need a good skilled power forward more than we need a small sniper. Holtz doesn’t project as an elite sniper whatsoever. I think if he turns out we’re talking about a one dimensional 30 goal guy at best and there’s no guarantee he gets there. His skating isn’t close to good enough. He’s a good prospect but Tkachuk is without a doubt a better player than Debrincat. And I think most people on here would rather arguably the best skilled power forward in the league right now over a small, elite goal scorer.

If their primary goal is to get better players than they should go for Matthew Tkachuk well before Debrincat.
It’s kind of irrelevant because Tkachuk isn’t available and we shouldn’t be trading 2OVR for any of them without a certain extension. But the other part you chose to ignore is that we could feel more comfortable in a long-term tkachuk extension given his relationship with Fitz.

 

[McDuffz88]

How is DeBrincat + Holtz (if he's not traded to Chicago in a DeBrincat trade) better than Tkachuk without Holtz better for NJ?

While Cat is great & I love the dude. Tkachuk just brings in a style of game we don't have & is desperately needed. Adding in Cat is adding in a player who is 5 foot 7 and weighs 165. Yeah he scores a crap load of goals but you can't have your entire core be tiny. Tkachuk is 6'2. I know size isn't everything but Tkachuk uses his size & scores a crap load of points (just scored over 40 goals & 100 points) I think next to Hughes he replicates that production. On paper he is the perfect winger for Hughes. Holtz while being a great prospect isn't guaranteed. If given the choice I take Tkachuk because it's not everyday you find wingers with a combo of snarl/size/skill. This ain't a knock on Cat because I love the player & would happily add him to our roster.

 

[OmNomNom]

when has a top 3 pick been traded, and for what, historically?

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

No it wouldn’t be. Tkachuk is a whole tier above Debrincat. He’s easily better and we need a good skilled power forward more than we need a small sniper. Holtz doesn’t project as an elite sniper whatsoever. I think if he turns out we’re talking about a one dimensional 30 goal guy at best and there’s no guarantee he gets there. His skating isn’t close to good enough. He’s a good prospect but Tkachuk is without a doubt a better player than Debrincat. And I think most people on here would rather arguably the best skilled power forward in the league right now over a small, elite goal scorer.

If their primary goal is to get better players than they should go for Matthew Tkachuk well before Debrincat.
It’s kind of irrelevant because Tkachuk isn’t available and we shouldn’t be trading 2OVR for any of them without a certain extension. But the other part you chose to ignore is that we could feel more comfortable in a long-term tkachuk extension given his relationship with Fitz.

They can't get said power forward via UFA with the savings between a Tkachuk v DeBrincat contracts? There's multiple ways they can go about constructing the future roster and yes obviously Tkachuk is the better player, there's no denying that. I'm just saying people are underrating Alex DeBrincat on this forum for some reason. If Slaf or whoever they take forward wise turns into him, we'd be praising the lord.

when has a top 3 pick been traded, and for what, historically?

Sedin draft, I think? I can't remember anything recently lol

Pick for player was Yashin in 01 for that pick Ottawa took Spezza with.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

They can't get said power forward via UFA with the savings between a Tkachuk v DeBrincat contracts? There's multiple ways they can go about constructing the future roster and yes obviously Tkachuk is the better player, there's no denying that. I'm just saying people are underrating Alex DeBrincat on this forum for some reason. If Slaf or whoever they take forward wise turns into him, we'd be praising the lord.

Slaf has the potential to be that good. Certainly isn’t a guarantee though. And no we can’t find any close to Matthew Tkachuk in UFA.
Debrincat is a damn good player but I would take Tkachuk over him and a good prospect in Holtz every day of the week.

 

[Hisch13r]

Slaf has the potential to be that good. Certainly isn’t a guarantee though. And no we can’t find any close to Matthew Tkachuk in UFA.
Debrincat is a damn good player but I would take Tkachuk over him and a good prospect in Holtz every day of the week.

Sure he’s got the potential. Likelihood is slim. I doubt Tkachuk is actually available though so it’s probably meaningless to talk about. Debrincat on the other hand is and he’s great. I’m also defensive not taking Tkachuk over Debrincat and Holtz. You’re telling me if we had Debrincat right now you’d move him and Holtz on top of that for Tkachuk?? That’s just nonsense. The gap between Debrincat and Tkachuk is not Holtz

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Sure he’s got the potential. Likelihood is slim. I doubt Tkachuk is actually available though so it’s probably meaningless to talk about. Debrincat on the other hand is and he’s great. I’m also defensive not taking Tkachuk over Debrincat and Holtz. You’re telling me if we had Debrincat right now you’d move him and Holtz on top of that for Tkachuk?? That’s just nonsense. The gap between Debrincat and Tkachuk is not Holtz

I would absolutely do that. The gap is that big. I guess that also is dependent on how you value Holtz but I wouldn’t personally take that 10 times out of 10.

 

[megajake]

I think lots of people here over value potential vs guarantee. Can Slaf be great? Yes. Can he bust ? Yes. There has been plenty of top 5 picks that have turned out poorly, Slaf could 100% be one of those. I'm fine with Devils drafting him, but to say he's more valuable than a 2 time 40 goal scorer at the age of 24, is just ignoring the bust potential for Slaf. He is FAR from a sure thing/can't miss prospect.

 

[Hisch13r]

24 year old 40 goal scorers are always available (also on pace for 50 in the shortened year btw), I forgot lol. DeBrincat's play style is tailor made for Jack Hughes. I'll be fine with whatever they do but I'm sick of people just dismissing players that are elite talents because somehow we have them on our roster or have to wait for them? This team is in no position to wait another 3-5 years for guys in their top 6 to develop. Their goaltending shit the bed last year when massive improvement could've been made which I totally understand but you just can't tell a fanbase who's seen 1 playoff win in 10 years to wait a little longer. Now if you told me that they should do something stupid and trade the 2nd overall for J.T Miller? I'd laugh in someone's face.

That post also makes no sense. Who is suggesting moving 2nd AND Holtz? Who is suggesting moving either of those pieces for Fiala or Boeser? Who is suggesting that this matters more than what is happening in net? How does this matter less that the 3rd f***ing pair? Who is saying you can’t do multiple things and make this move as well as move on from Zacha and Johnsson? I also highly doubt Nichushkin is even available and if he is then yeah sure go after him but I doubt contract wise at least it’s going to be substantially cheaper like he’s suggesting.

 

[megajake]

i'm just sayin he could be had for less

That's fair, no issues with that. If Fitz can pull that off, we will be very happy campers

I def wouldn't move 2nd overall for Fila/Boeser, I think either could be had for much less. Both those teams might want to move on from them for different reasons(cap space/roster change up). But Chicago could be completely fine keeping their 24 year old stud goal scorer.

 

[Hisch13r]

That's fair, no issues with that. If Fitz can pull that off, we will be very happy campers

I def wouldn't move 2nd overall for Fila/Boeser, I think either could be had for much less. Both those teams might want to move on from them for different reasons(cap space/roster change up). But Chicago could be completely fine keeping their 24 year old stud goal scorer.

I don’t even really want Boeser much unless it’s super cheap. I’ve never been super on the Boeser train. Burakovsky could be cheaper, no assets given up, and isn’t really even much worse. That would be better than Boeser

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I think lots of people here over value potential vs guarantee. Can Slaf be great? Yes. Can he bust ? Yes. There has been plenty of top 5 picks that have turned out poorly, Slaf could 100% be one of those. I'm fine with Devils drafting him, but to say he's more valuable than a 2 time 40 goal scorer at the age of 24, is just ignoring the bust potential for Slaf. He is FAR from a sure thing/can't miss prospect.

I think that’s also very dependent on how confident you are in their potential. I’m very confident he will at least be a good top 6 forward and I think he has reachable potential to be one of the best wingers in the game. I personally wouldn’t trade that for Debrincat especially if there’s no extension in place but I would be fine if they did (with an extension in place). I can also understand why someone who’s not as sold on him would jump all over a trade for Debrincat. I would too if I wasn’t confident in who we were likely to get at 2.

I really think Slaf has what it takes to be a star and he’s an incredibly rare mix that you never see with him combination of skill and ridiculous size. The skill is what makes me he’ll be very good and then the physical package pushes it over the edge.

 

[megajake]

I don’t even really want Boeser much unless it’s super cheap. I’ve never been super on the Boeser train. Burakovsky could be cheaper, no assets given up, and isn’t really even much worse. That would be better than Boeser

Yeah he's like a last resort option for me if I can be picky.

I think that’s also very dependent on how confident you are in their potential. I’m very confident he will at least be a good top 6 forward and I think he has reachable potential to be one of the best wingers in the game. I personally wouldn’t trade that for Debrincat especially if there’s no extension in place but I would be fine if they did (with an extension in place). I can also understand why someone who’s not as sold on him would jump all over a trade for Debrincat. I would too if I wasn’t confident in who we were likely to get at 2.

If you truly believe Slaf could be one of the best wingers in the league, then I can see the case. That sounds like a what, 5% outcome based on all reports. He isn't even the consensus 2nd pick in this draft. It does sound really cool to imagine he becomes that for us while being a huge body which we lack in the top 6 greatly. I think if we acquire Cat/Pasta or whatever player with only a year left with such a big asset like 2nd overall, it will come with an extension all but confirmed.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Yeah he's like a last resort option for me if I can be picky.

If you truly believe Slaf could be one of the best wingers in the league, then I can see the case. That sounds like a what, 5% outcome based on all reports. He isn't even the consensus 2nd pick in this draft. It does sound really cool to imagine he becomes that for us while being a huge body which we lack in the top 6 greatly. I think if we acquire Cat/Pasta or whatever player with only a year left with such a big asset like 2nd overall, it will come with an extension all but confirmed.

Ya I honestly just really think he has what it takes to be a star.

This might be confusing and it’s weird to describe but.
The fluidity and unison between his soft hands and smooth skating is amazing. It’s exactly what I’ve seen in a lot of the guys that have turned out really well in the last decade. Stutzle, Raymond, Makar, Zegras, Hughes, Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Rantanen, Matthews, Marner, Bratt, Kucherov, Laine, Petterson.

All of these guys are so dangerous and able to to do things other guys can’t because their hands and feet work so well and smoothly together. They can skate at top speed while maneuvering the puck anywhere around them and keeping speed, changing angles and lanes or turning on a dime all while keeping their head up. They can pretty much maneuver in any way they want while keeping the puck under perfect control. They all have good edges and smooth skating and stickhandling and they use it all together with ease.

I think you look at these other players that haven’t turned out that people have compared to Slafkovsky. I don’t think they have that fluidity and smoothness. Kakko is a big guy with nice hands, who moves well but he doesn’t have as good of edges and isn’t at all as smooth with his hands and feet. Even a guy like Puljujarvi. He’s a big guy who’s fast but he doesn’t have the edgework or the same level of fluidity although I think he’s closer than the others I’m talking about. Same idea with Zacha. Big and fast but not nearly as fluid and maneuverable.

This is a weird explanation and it’s hard to describe but it’s kind of a big part of why I’m so sold on Slafkovsky.
It’s the same thing that I really liked about Raymond and Stutzle in 2020. Didn’t really see anyone outside of a defensmen in Power with it in 2021 but even he doesn’t have as good of edgework. Has the fluidity though with his puck handling and skating and it really goes well with how smart and poised he is. Some others have it an extent but not too the same extent as Slafkovsky.

I think guys like Kucherov and Draisaitl are the best current examples. Not the fastest guys. But what I’m talking about above combined with their hockey IQ is what I think has made them two of the best players in the league.
Kuznetsov and Pastrnak are others. It’s something I see in a lot of the best players.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Ya I honestly just really think he has what it takes to be a star.

This might be confusing and it’s weird to describe but.
The fluidity and unison between his soft hands and smooth skating is amazing. It’s exactly what I’ve seen in a lot of the guys that have turned out really well in the last decade. Stutzle, Raymond, Makar, Zegras, Hughes, Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Rantanen, Matthews, Marner, Bratt, Kucherov, Laine, Petterson.

All of these guys are so dangerous and able to to do things other guys can’t because their hands and feet work so well and smoothly together. They can skate at top speed while maneuvering the puck anywhere around them and keeping speed, changing angles and lanes or turning on a dime all while keeping their head up. They can pretty much maneuver in any way they want while keeping the puck under perfect control. They all have good edges and smooth skating and stickhandling and they use it all together with ease.

I think you look at these other players that haven’t turned out that people have compared to Slafkovsky. I don’t think they have that fluidity and smoothness. Kakko is a big guy with nice hands, who moves well but he doesn’t have as good of edges and isn’t at all as smooth with his hands and feet. Even a guy like Puljujarvi. He’s a big guy who’s fast but he doesn’t have the edgework or the same level of fluidity although I think he’s closer than the others I’m talking about. Same idea with Zacha. Big and fast but not nearly as fluid and maneuverable.

This is a weird explanation and it’s hard to describe but it’s kind of a big part of why I’m so sold on Slafkovsky.
It’s the same thing that I really liked about Raymond and Stutzle in 2020. Didn’t really see anyone outside of a defensmen in Power with it in 2021 but even he doesn’t have as good of edgework. Has the fluidity though with his puck handling and skating and it really goes well with how smart and poised he is. Some others have it an extent but not too the same extent as Slafkovsky.

I think guys like Kucherov and Draisaitl are the best current examples. Not the fastest guys. But what I’m talking about above combined with their hockey IQ is what I think has made them two of the best players in the league.
Kuznetsov and Pastrnak are others. It’s something I see in a lot of the best players.

What Nikita Kucherov are you watching? He's one of the best skating wings in the league

 

[Captain3rdLine]

What Nikita Kucherov are you watching? He's one of the best skating wings in the league

He’s not wicked fast though or anything. He’s got great edges and he’s really smoove.
Did I every at any point say he wasn’t a really good skater?

 

[glenwo2]

Slafkovsky is kind of a unicorn, I don't know where I'd put the comparison. He's the first 6'4-220 forward I've seen since Jagr who offered the best combination of puckhandling/playmaking in the entire draft class, and he's also elite in hockey IQ. He's tremendous along the boards and down low, and I think we saw in the WC what an incredible ability he has as a net-front presence to create rebounds, screens and deflections. His shot has improved remarkably over the past year and a half where I think this might have the potential to develop into yet another near-elite tool. His skating is excellent for any size, but rare for a 6'4 player of his powerful physique.

Stylistically, I don't like comparing Kakko to Rantanen or Slafkovsky, because Kakko is more north/south and likes to play downhill, while both Rantanen and Slafkovsky are more versatile, liking to mix up a finesse east/west game with the situational ability to power to the interior. This is why I bring up Jagr -- while by no means would I compare anyone to the great #68, Slafkovsky does offer the best combination of puck protection/hands I've seen since perhaps Jagr. If the opposition gets caught with the wrong defense match-up against him, Slafkovsky can just seemingly play "keep away" at will while he waits for a lane to open.

I've also seen Slafkovsky compared to Svechnikov, but I don't like it because Svechnikov is more aggressive, both physically and in his general shoot-first mindset. Slafkovsky's mix of vision and wing-span sometimes makes me think "young Joe Thornton, but on the wing" but I'm not sure that encapsulates it well, either.

So, to answer your question, I won't answer your question. Slafkovsky is truly a unique talent. But what's best about him is that his ability to open up space and draw defenders down low will serve as the absolutely perfect compliment to Hughes and Bratt, who are as good as any NHL tandem at utilizing space outside the circles and up high. It's kind of a match made in heaven... no pun intended because this is, after all, the Devils.


Your friendly neighborhood draft writer STI pimped all year long for K'Andre Miller, as you might recall.

Then he'd fit right in as the Devils could always use *another* unicorn.

two unicorns are better than one, that's what I always say.

 

[glenwo2]

I think lots of people here over value potential vs guarantee. Can Slaf be great? Yes. Can he bust ? Yes. There has been plenty of top 5 picks that have turned out poorly, Slaf could 100% be one of those. I'm fine with Devils drafting him, but to say he's more valuable than a 2 time 40 goal scorer at the age of 24, is just ignoring the bust potential for Slaf. He is FAR from a sure thing/can't miss prospect.

Sure he’s got the potential. Likelihood is slim. I doubt Tkachuk is actually available though so it’s probably meaningless to talk about. Debrincat on the other hand is and he’s great. I’m also defensive not taking Tkachuk over Debrincat and Holtz. You’re telling me if we had Debrincat right now you’d move him and Holtz on top of that for Tkachuk?? That’s just nonsense. The gap between Debrincat and Tkachuk is not Holtz

You can both say that about any top draft pick in the past (aside from McDavid).

Any pick can turn out to not be what the team expects (down the road) but if teams operated with that mindset, then we might as well not have a draft at all and just start overpaying for Vet Free Agents (or make team-breaking Trades) every year.

 

[Lou Bloom]

I'm not against trading the 2nd overall if the value is worth it but I'm not sure Debrincat is that player. Debrincat is a great finisher, no doubt but he's also been stapled next to one of the best players in the league in Kane for the majority of his NHL career. And while I'm sure Jack Hughes would be able to utilize Debrincat better than most player's in the league I'd still be a little wary paying a premium for a player that'll be a bit dependent on having an elite playmaker to get the best out of him.

 

[Hisch13r]

I’d really really like to go out and snag Liljegren from Toronto. Whether that’s a trade or offersheeting him for 2nd round money. Try and sign him to basically the deal that Severson is currently on. I’d much rather move forward with him as the 2RD long term and let Sevo walk after next year if we’re a playoff team or move him at some point before that. Liljegren is going to be the better player over the duration of Sevo’s next deal and he’ll likely be cheaper for most of Sevo’s deal as well. This would be just as important to me as getting Puljujarvi

 

[Alex NJD]

I’d really really like to go out and snag Liljegren from Toronto. Whether that’s a trade or offersheeting him for 2nd round money. Try and sign him to basically the deal that Severson is currently on. I’d much rather move forward with him as the 2RD long term and let Sevo walk after next year if we’re a playoff team or move him at some point before that. Liljegren is going to be the better player over the duration of Sevo’s next deal and he’ll likely be cheaper for most of Sevo’s deal as well. This would be just as important to me as getting Puljujarvi

I think I saw or read something about how Toronto want to keep him and are more likely to move out Holl or even Sandin. Not 100% on that tho

 

[Hisch13r]

I think I saw or read something about how Toronto want to keep him and are more likely to move out Holl or even Sandin. Not 100% on that tho

Considering how heavy they are on the left side I’d believe that. He really would be perfect for us but he’s also perfect for them so I get why they’d prioritize him