Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - camp edition

[Unknown Caller]

Bastian is just a bad player. At least Lebanc can shoot.

Bastian is not a bad player. He's had some games this preseason with stellar metrics too.

 

[theoptimist]

Lebanc is a selfish player who is horrible in his own end. Nobody wants that

We need an upgrade on the fourth line. To be honest, I’m a fourth line enthusiast. Bastian is not a skater, fighter, or shooter. What is he doing on this team?

 

[Nocashstyle]

Nothing about Lebanc’s game seems well suited for a fourth line role.

 

[HersheyBob27]

We need an upgrade on the fourth line. To be honest, I’m a fourth line enthusiast. Bastian is not a skater, fighter, or shooter. What is he doing on this team?

The fourth line through the preseason showed potential to be on of the best in the league. Not sure what you are even talking about

 

[Devils731]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5799697/2024/09/30/nhl-season-previews-2024-25/

This is all bad juju. Way too Devils positive.

 

[Triumph]

I'm hoping Labanc doesn't make the team just so I don't have to see Lebanc in here all the time. Shades of Salvadore and Kincaid.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Bastian is not a bad player. He's had some games this preseason with stellar metrics too.

he is a terrible player

 

[My3Sons]

he is a terrible player

Why is that the case? I’ve seen a number of fans generally down on him but I haven’t really seen an explanation what he does badly. He’s a fourth liner with limited expectations. I know that his shoulder injury seems to have taken away his willingness to fight but that was never a major part of his game. Is he blowing defensive zone coverages? Can he not make a pass? Does he shy away from necessary physical contact and thereby lose pucks? To my eyes he seems pretty vanilla but not someone that I worry about on the ice for the average shift.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I can take or leave Bastian, but Foote should not be on the roster. He's just bad. Then again MacDermid is in Prague too so the bar is low.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Maybe we can basically make Labanc our insurance policy in the AHL the way we did Steve Bernier in 2011-2012. He came in on a PTO and signed an AHL contract after camp. Eventually we signed him to a one-year, two-way deal and the rest was history.

Probably not realistic, he could probably catch on somewhere else, but worth a thought at least.

 

[MartyOwns]

lebanc and halonen had some really strong showings. i think lebanc gets a contract from someone else if not us.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Why is that the case? I’ve seen a number of fans generally down on him but I haven’t really seen an explanation what he does badly. He’s a fourth liner with limited expectations. I know that his shoulder injury seems to have taken away his willingness to fight but that was never a major part of his game. Is he blowing defensive zone coverages? Can he not make a pass? Does he shy away from necessary physical contact and thereby lose pucks? To my eyes he seems pretty vanilla but not someone that I worry about on the ice for the average shift.

Yea he's 100% one of those players who is who he is and knows it himself. I'm a fan of him, but know his limitations and wouldn't hold onto him at the expense of a better player. But I don't understand the weird amount of directed hate he gets from some people either. He's fine.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Bastian doesn't really do anything well. He is a competent PKer and occasionally physical, but clearly not physical enough to be a deterrent to the Wilsons and Rempes of the world. He's not a good skater and his role as the big body net-front PP guy is obsolete now that we actually have quality offensive wingers who can play that role better.

He's only appeared in 60% of games over the last two years due to injury yet makes nearly double league minimum. I was a big believer in him as a prospect, but he's developed into an easily replaceable player. It's not that hard to find 4th liners who can hit people and PK a bit, most 4th liners can do that. He's just a guy.

This isn't to say I'm a Labanc fanboy. I think he'd be fine as a #13 or a first callup from Utica. But the 4th line is a great place for us to both upgrade player quality and reduce cost. I don't know if Labanc's game would translate well in that role. But I certainly know that we can do much better than Bastian.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Why is that the case? I’ve seen a number of fans generally down on him but I haven’t really seen an explanation what he does badly. He’s a fourth liner with limited expectations. I know that his shoulder injury seems to have taken away his willingness to fight but that was never a major part of his game. Is he blowing defensive zone coverages? Can he not make a pass? Does he shy away from necessary physical contact and thereby lose pucks? To my eyes he seems pretty vanilla but not someone that I worry about on the ice for the average shift.

let me put it to you this way

what does he do NOT badly? And if your answer is "well he is big and sometimes hits people", that proves my point.

Bastian doesn't really do anything well. He is a competent PKer and occasionally physical, but clearly not physical enough to be a deterrent to the Wilsons and Rempes of the world. He's not a good skater and his role as the big body net-front PP guy is obsolete now that we actually have quality offensive wingers who can play that role better.

He's only appeared in 60% of games over the last two years due to injury yet makes nearly double league minimum. I was a big believer in him as a prospect, but he's developed into an easily replaceable player. It's not that hard to find 4th liners who can hit people and PK a bit, most 4th liners can do that. He's just a guy.

This isn't to say I'm a Labanc fanboy. I think he'd be fine as a #13 or a first callup from Utica. But the 4th line is a great place for us to both upgrade player quality and reduce cost. I don't know if Labanc's game would translate well in that role. But I certainly know that we can do much better than Bastian.

no he isn't. He can't skate.

 

[Nocashstyle]

let me put it to you this way

what does he do NOT badly? And if your answer is "well he is big and sometimes hits people", that proves my point.

That’s really overdramatic. He's not actively bad at anything. He’s also just not actively good at anything either, mostly just a warm body. But for a fourth liner with some size, that’s not necessarily a bad thing either. He pots the occasional goal and isn’t a liability. You’re acting like he’s as skilled as Cam Janssen.

 

[Based Anime Fan]

I can take or leave Bastian, but Foote should not be on the roster. He's just bad. Then again MacDermid is in Prague too so the bar is low.

MacDermid is a locker room glue guy. He knows his role well, and understands it. He doesn't complain, he shows up, does whatever it is he does, and goes home.

 

[TrufleShufle]

let me put it to you this way

what does he do NOT badly? And if your answer is "well he is big and sometimes hits people", that proves my point.



no he isn't. He can't skate.

Your hate for him is getting very strange at this point. You replied to two paragraphs about him essentially being not good at all and replaceable to make sure the poster knew the one thing he said he was "competent" at was false. Even though that was the only even slightly positive thing he said, if you can call it that.

He's a 4th liner that can and most likely will be replaced at some point, I mean by all means, let the world know how terrible he is, but it seems like you have some weird grudge going on.

 

[Triumph]

This might be Bastian's last season here, but he's been a fine player up to now. His strength, such as it is, is defense. Over the last two seasons, Bastian is 207th out of 413 forwards in goal rate, so he's not hurting the team there either.

It's easy to say that he was a product of McLeod, but he and Lazar had a 57% xG last season together, and without McLeod they had a 52% xG. Not spectacular or anything but he's a 4th line player.

 

[AfroThunder396]

no he isn't. He can't skate.

His PK results per 60 are pretty similar to McLeod's over the last 3 seasons.

Forwards with +100 PK mins for the Devils since the start of 2021-22 (league median out of 243 qualifying players):

SA/60 (league median 55.08)
Vesey 42.84
McLeod 46.79
Bastian 48.2
Mercer 48.24
Sharangovich 50.68
Haula 50.93
Hischier 52.23

CA/60 (league median 102.66)
Vesey 72.57
Bastian 88.45
McLeod 88.65
Sharangovich 90.8
Hischier 96.71
Mercer 97.34
Haula 99.32

xGA/60 (league median 7.63)
Vesey 5.53
McLeod 6.2
Bastian 6.51
Sharangovich 7.31
Mercer 7.77
Hischier 7.93
Haula 7.97

GA/60 (league median 7.38)
Vesey 6.12
McLeod 6.32
Hischier 6.82
Mercer 7.39
Bastian 7.42
Sharangovich 7.92
Haula 8.0

In general:
-The PK was very good under Lindy Ruff relative to the rest of the league
-The expected results outpaced the observed results (ie, let down by goaltending)
-Bastian is either average or above average in all metrics, compared to both the league as a whole and other Devils forwards
-Jimmy Vesey is an elite PKer
-Hischier and Mercer are not as good at PKing as people think they are
-Haula is pretty clearly the worst regular PKer, and he's still average range compared to the rest of the league

Another interesting thing is that Tyler Toffoli was 4th best in the league in xGA/60 on the PK, he had elite PK results with Calgary but wasn't deployed there at all in NJ. Prior to coming here he was used on the PK everywhere except his 10 games in Vancouver during the COVID season. I get why they would want to save him for 5v5 and PP, but seems like misuse of an effective player.

Anyways, the results show that Bastian is a competent PKer. Not elite, but competent. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Bastian, we don't need to invent fictional ones.

 

[PWiz30]

Seems like Casey's probably gonna be in the lineup if they have him on PP2 in practice at this point.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I want the best players possible playing. I do not believe that Bastian is better than Labanc or even a Halonen for that matter. He is soooo slow.

we don't need to debate this any further though. Who cares at the end of the day.

 

[Triumph]

His PK results per 60 are pretty similar to McLeod's over the last 3 seasons.

Forwards with +100 PK mins for the Devils since the start of 2021-22 (league median out of 243 qualifying players):

SA/60 (league median 55.08)
Vesey 42.84
McLeod 46.79
Bastian 48.2
Mercer 48.24
Sharangovich 50.68
Haula 50.93
Hischier 52.23

CA/60 (league median 102.66)
Vesey 72.57
Bastian 88.45
McLeod 88.65
Sharangovich 90.8
Hischier 96.71
Mercer 97.34
Haula 99.32

xGA/60 (league median 7.63)
Vesey 5.53
McLeod 6.2
Bastian 6.51
Sharangovich 7.31
Mercer 7.77
Hischier 7.93
Haula 7.97

GA/60 (league median 7.38)
Vesey 6.12
McLeod 6.32
Hischier 6.82
Mercer 7.39
Bastian 7.42
Sharangovich 7.92
Haula 8.0

In general:
-The PK was very good under Lindy Ruff relative to the rest of the league
-The expected results outpaced the observed results (ie, let down by goaltending)
-Bastian is either average or above average in all metrics, compared to both the league as a whole and other Devils forwards
-Jimmy Vesey is an elite PKer
-Hischier and Mercer are not as good at PKing as people think they are
-Haula is pretty clearly the worst regular PKer, and he's still average range compared to the rest of the league

Another interesting thing is that Tyler Toffoli was 4th best in the league in xGA/60 on the PK, he had elite PK results with Calgary but wasn't deployed there at all in NJ. Prior to coming here he was used on the PK everywhere except his 10 games in Vancouver during the COVID season. I get why they would want to save him for 5v5 and PP, but seems like misuse of an effective player.

Anyways, the results show that Bastian is a competent PKer. Not elite, but competent. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Bastian, we don't need to invent fictional ones.

FWIW you cannot blanket compare PKers like this because who is on for the opening faceoff of the PK is so incredibly important - anyone coming on for the second wave has the opportunity to stop the opposition from entering the zone, or getting set up, or any of these things. Just looking at the Devils numbers from last year among PKing forwards with more than 30 minutes of ice time, it looks like Haula and McLeod were most likely to be used on the top unit, with Mercer and Nosek next, then Lazar and Bastian (and others, below them). In light of Bastian's faceoff usage, he was probably the worst penalty killing forward on the Devils last season.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I can take or leave Bastian, but Foote should not be on the roster. He's just bad. Then again MacDermid is in Prague too so the bar is low.

I'd certainly take Bastian over Mac and Foote, that's for sure.

 

[My3Sons]

FWIW you cannot blanket compare PKers like this because who is on for the opening faceoff of the PK is so incredibly important - anyone coming on for the second wave has the opportunity to stop the opposition from entering the zone, or getting set up, or any of these things. Just looking at the Devils numbers from last year among PKing forwards with more than 30 minutes of ice time, it looks like Haula and McLeod were most likely to be used on the top unit, with Mercer and Nosek next, then Lazar and Bastian (and others, below them). In light of Bastian's faceoff usage, he was probably the worst penalty killing forward on the Devils last season.

Beyond that, I don't think you can look at a single forward's PK rate numbers as uniquely attributable to that player. You have three other players and of course the opponents have the advantage and their personnel are probably more important in context.