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Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

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bossram said:
Erik "top-nine" Haula had a 9/8 primary/secondary assist split at even-strength. Damn, don't think he's a 3rd line scoring type. And that's in more ice time and playing a lot of the season with Jack.

Mikey had 3 fewer total points at even-strength.

I'm not slagging Haula. I like him. But the "Mcleod is a mid 4th liner" narrative is objectively wrong.

A who gets points at a 3rd line level and has plus defensive utility is pretty firmly in the middle of the distribution of NHL forwards. By definition, that is not a 4th liner.
Click to expand...

Erik Haula also shot at like 3% for most of the year, Haula’s had a 27 goal season from the 3C. They’re not comparable at all from a production standpoint.
 
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Haula was the most snakebit I've ever seen a man for 80% of last season, and Hughes still almost hit triple figs next to him

do we think Hughes does that with Mikey riding shotgun? Or do we think that all the fancy number systems that say Haula is a pretty good player and Mcleod a pretty bad one may be on to something?
 
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bossram said:
Erik "top-nine" Haula had a 9/8 primary/secondary assist split at even-strength. Damn, don't think he's a 3rd line scoring type. And that's in more ice time and playing a lot of the season with Jack.

Mikey had 3 fewer total points at even-strength.

I'm not slagging Haula. I like him. But the "Mcleod is a mid 4th liner" narrative is objectively wrong.

A player who gets points at a 3rd line level and has plus defensive utility is pretty firmly in the middle of the distribution of NHL forwards. By definition, that is not a 4th liner.
Click to expand...
Eric Haula also isn't an offensive blackhole with the puck on his stick when actually watching the game thus why the eye test was mentioned. It's the same song and dance we had with Miles Wood and why he's not a 3rd liner either. Skill matters and Mikey has the offensive skill of a cement block. He skates fast, plays physical and takes faceoffs. He's a 4th liner. Haula has the ability to play up and down the lineup because he's not offensively inept in the same ways Mikey is. It's a literal adventure when the puck finds Mikey's stick.
 
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MasterofGrond said:
Thank god I can always count on Bleedred to bring the discussion back to Blackwood, his favorite player.
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Well, I don't care to talk about him too much anymore on this forum. At least not until he starts getting shellacked in San Jose and I can start sticking it to all the people who made me feel like a dummy for being very adamant he wouldn't bounce back. Just like the Cory stuff.

But I saw someone else post about it. I think I need to copy and paste that over on the Sharks forum right now.
 
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blackwood was actually in the top half of goalies league-wide in most major categories. i think he’ll have a nice career out there.
 
SteveCangialosi123 said:
I missed the part where I said they weren’t? But anyway, players that score 4 goals in 80 games shouldn’t get more than 4th line minutes. At least on a team that wants to win anything.
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That is exactly what you're saying. You're completely ignoring assists as part of a player's production. Only goals should be considered. This is the evaluation you are clearly making.

26 points is solid 3rd line level production.
 
bossram said:
Erik "top-nine" Haula had a 9/8 primary/secondary assist split at even-strength. Damn, don't think he's a 3rd line scoring type. And that's in more ice time and playing a lot of the season with Jack.

Mikey had 3 fewer total points at even-strength.

I'm not slagging Haula. I like him. But the "Mcleod is a mid 4th liner" narrative is objectively wrong.

A player who gets points at a 3rd line level and has plus defensive utility is pretty firmly in the middle of the distribution of NHL forwards. By definition, that is not a 4th liner.
Click to expand...
McLeod receives irattional hate because his best skill is faceoffs which half the sports world has determined are more meaningless than ... a good starting goalie, which is the new Fad among hockey fans, just tossing aside an entire position because Adin Hill win a Cup

If McLeod had one skill better than his faceoffs hed be liked but alas hes not. Luckily though Ruff and coaching staffs realize faceoffs matter and its how McLeod gets OT starts or late game faceoffs
 
Bleedred said:
Well, I don't care to talk about him too much anymore on this forum. At least not until he starts getting shellacked in San Jose and I can start sticking it to all the people who made me feel like a dummy for being very adamant he wouldn't bounce back. Just like the Cory stuff.

But I saw someone else post about it. I think I need to copy and paste that over on the Sharks forum right now.
Click to expand...
SJ is so last week.

Now that Blackwood is about the free agent market Fitz can bring him back to NJ. With the doubts surrounding Vanacek after the playoffs, it's a good bet NJ will want to sign up Blackwood, the Devil you know (hah, see what I did there), for maybe five or six years. I'm sure that sort of rock solid consistency in goal would warm your heart.
 
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WT said:
No offense.. but if we are taking the team record when a fourth liner is or isnt playing as a determinative statistic, then the original argument has been lost

Bastian quite literally cannot affect a game the same way McLeod can. How many times has Bastian started an overtime? How many times has Bastian lined up with ten seconds left in the defensive zone? Or ten seconds left in the offensive zone? How many games has Bastian played over 10ATOI?

Bastian is a good fourth liner but people just dislike Mikey and like Nate more when they claim hes the better player; he isnt and its inarguable
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Yeah, McLeod is better than Bastian. Period. Having said that, I don't think Mikey is worth double Lazars price.
 
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ZachaFlockaFlame said:
Erik Haula also shot at like 3% for most of the year, Haula’s had a 27 goal season from the 3C. They’re not comparable at all from a production standpoint.
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You got me. Goal scoring from 6 years ago is how you determine if a player is good.

Mikey also shot 3.66% at 5v5 for the season. So only consider shooting percentage for one player, but not the other. Got it.

I don't know why it's hard for anyone to admit that 26 points is actually not 4th line production.
 
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bossram said:
That is exactly what you're saying. You're completely ignoring assists as part of a player's production. Only goals should be considered. This is the evaluation you are clearly making.

26 points is solid 3rd line level production.
Click to expand...
Am I? Huh. I’m completely ignoring assists when I directly call him a good playmaker in a previous post?

I’m not sure what all this is about? If you squint, McLeod is a 3rd liner on some of the shittiest of shit ass teams around the league. Okay? We’re cup hunting — he’s a 4th liner and nothing more on this team or any team in that class.

bossram said:
You got me. Goal scoring from 6 years ago is how you determine if a player is good.

Mikey also shot 3.66% for the season.

I don't know why it's hard for anyone to admit that 26 points is actually not 4th line production.
Click to expand...
He shot that low because he has one of the worst shots in the NHL. Part of why he’s a 4th liner, btw.
 
My3Sons said:
SJ is so last week.

Now that Blackwood is about the free agent market Fitz can bring him back to NJ. With the doubts surrounding Vanacek after the playoffs, it's a good bet NJ will want to sign up Blackwood, the Devil you know (hah, see what I did there), for maybe five or six years. I'm sure that sort of rock solid consistency in goal would warm your heart.
Click to expand...
This is kind of reminding me of some WWE attitude era angle. Like weird double cross swerves. Fitz cutting a Vince McMahon style promo saying he suckered everybody by getting a 6th for Blackwood, yet still bringing him back anyway, along with the 6th round pick.

I can already see him being brought back and me in my best Jim Ross impersonation screaming ''NO! DAMMIT! NO!!!! BAH GAWD WILL SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING!''
 
WT said:
McLeod receives irattional hate because his best skill is faceoffs which half the sports world has determined are more meaningless than ... a good starting goalie, which is the new Fad among hockey fans, just tossing aside an entire position because Adin Hill win a Cup

If McLeod had one skill better than his faceoffs hed be liked but alas hes not. Luckily though Ruff and coaching staffs realize faceoffs matter and its how McLeod gets OT starts or late game faceoffs
Click to expand...
I don't even value faceoffs that much. But Mcleod is a solid player.

Literally every argument anyone has pointed to is easily refuted.
 
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