Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Ripshot 43]

I have a feeling Timo gets done very soon and we’ll see some FitzMagic by the way of a draft day deal involving us taking on some salary and getting us back into the first round. Then I’ll wake up lol

Would be nice but I don’t see the room to be taking on salary. We are in the contending window and any money spent needs to be done very carefully.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Would be nice but I don’t see the room to be taking on salary. We are in the contending window and any money spent needs to be done very carefully.

If its a veteran 3RD, and we keep our goaltending, we could maybe squeeze in a bloated one-year deal; depends if Nemec is ready

 

[Eggtimer]

I don't think it makes sense for us to give up something of value for Hellebuyck for just one season. And I don't think it makes sense for us to extend him at the price/term it would take. So in short, I don't think Devils should pursue Hellebuyck.

I think Helle would make us a strong cup contender. If the price isn’t crazy ,go for it. Rental or exrendee , doesn’t matter but obviously prefer extended if it’s not 7 years / + 8.5 mil per.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

He’s not signing a 3-4 year/7.5m deal though.

I would take him on that too but there’s no way that’s even remotely happening.

You aren’t getting him that low while giving him no term. It’s not happening.

And he’s not signing for 3-4 years either. Kuemper was 32 when he signed and he got 5 years despite injuries/decline.

Less term is 6 years at most and he’s not taking less than 8m. And less term means a higher AAV.

Don’t fantasize a contract you like here, it’s a UFA deal for a superstar goalie. It’s going to be huge and ugly. Not 9.5m isn’t 7.5m, it’s 8.5m and he’s getting a lot of term.

If the team can sign Meier to under 9million and get the rest of the eligible RFA pool reasonable contracts - then Hellebyuck at 8x8 is doable, according to the numbers and expected cap increase

 

[TrufleShufle]

False

You don't think he thinks that? If he said he thinks it, I'm inclined to believe he actually thinks it, but ready to hear you out.

 

[Eggtimer]

Would be nice but I don’t see the room to be taking on salary. We are in the contending window and any money spent needs to be done very carefully.

Agree . We are not in the taking on salary game anymore. We are cu comtemders IMO and every penny should be used to ice the best roster possible. I dint see a massive need to get a pick in the first round either. We shoild be drafting where we can and try to find eventual cheap replacements for non core positions / players with maybe taking a home run swing pick on a long shot player .
No need to waste assets tryig to get into the 1sr p round unless it’s better asset management to get a 1st , then use the 1st to trade for a impact player like Helle

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

You don't think he thinks that? If he said he thinks it, I'm inclined to believe he actually thinks it, but ready to hear you out.

I think Helly on one year makes a ton of sense for this team and a recent cup winner has done the same exact thing. The Avs are also completely built similar to us too.

 

[MartyOwns]

how much is sorokin going to get? if the caps going up, i’d go double digits on him next year instead of trading assets this year.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I think Helly on one year makes a ton of sense for this team and a recent cup winner has done the same exact thing. The Avs are also completely built similar to us too.

That's fine, and I tend to agree if Fitz can work his typical magic, and I believe Fitz wouldn't do it in a way that handcuffed us. But I was commenting on and joking about the fact that you said "false" to a person saying "I think (opinion)." That was all.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I think Helle would make us a strong cup contender. If the price isn’t crazy ,go for it. Rental or exrendee , doesn’t matter but obviously prefer extended if it’s not 7 years / + 8.5 mil per.

What kind of package do you think makes sense for us to give up, and also make sense for Winnipeg to accept to dealing Hellebuyck.

I think Helly on one year makes a ton of sense for this team and a recent cup winner has done the same exact thing. The Avs are also completely built similar to us too.

The 2021-22 Avalanche were a lot further along as a team than the 2023-24 Devils are going to be.

These are two entirely different situations. The Avalanche had 1 year left on Kadri, Burakovsky, and Nichushkin contracts. They had 2 years remaining on Mackinnon's sweetheart deal. The time was ticking for them to capitalize with that group of players. Trading Timmons, a late 1st, and a conditional 3rd (condition was it was only transferred if they won the Stanley Cup) made a ton of sense for the Avalanche to get a capable goaltender.

For the Devils to acquire Hellebuyck, it would certainly cost more than that package Colorado had to give up, and this is certainly not a "last year to win with this group" kind of season for the Devils. This is just the start of a long journey with this core. There is no reason to sacrifice future assets for 1 year of Hellebuyck. (especially when Schmid just outperformed Hellebuyck in the playoffs 2 months ago)

how much is sorokin going to get? if the caps going up, i’d go double digits on him next year instead of trading assets this year.

I would rather this than Hellebuyck too - but I think the Isles will lock him up before he gets to UFA.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

What kind of package do you think makes sense for us to give up, and also make sense for Winnipeg to accept to dealing Hellebuyck.



The 2021-22 Avalanche were a lot further along as a team than the 2023-24 Devils are going to be.

These are two entirely different situations. The Avalanche had 1 year left on Kadri, Burakovsky, and Nichushkin contracts. They had 2 years remaining on Mackinnon's sweetheart deal. The time was ticking for them to capitalize with that group of players. Trading Timmons, a late 1st, and a conditional 3rd (condition was it was only transferred if they won the Stanley Cup) made a ton of sense for the Avalanche to get a capable goaltender.

For the Devils to acquire Hellebuyck, it would certainly cost more than that package Colorado had to give up, and this is certainly not a "last year to win with this group" kind of season for the Devils. This is just the start of a long journey with this core. There is no reason to sacrifice future assets for 1 year of Hellebuyck. (especially when Schmid just outperformed Hellebuyck in the playoffs 2 months ago)



I would rather this than Hellebuyck too - but I think the Isles will lock him up before he gets to UFA.

Then that's fine, wait out the year with Vanecek + Schmid and push for Saros in the 2024 offseason. The Jets need the Devils more than the other way around.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Then that's fine, wait out the year with Vanecek + Schmid and push for Saros in the 2024 offseason. The Jets need the Devils more than the other way around.

That would be my gameplan as well.

Saros is 2 years younger than Hellebuyck (2 years is a lot in hockey terms) and has less miles on him. I think he's the better option. But he is 5 inches shorter - which I know is a problem in the eyes of Devils management.

 

[Guttersniped]

I dunno man . There is a surplus of goalies available. Plus most teams that he would be willing to extend with , already capped out. Supply and demand. Now is the time to try to get him if you are a buyer .
The 7.5 m might be a little low but not impossible. What contender can offer him 8.5 + ? I can’t think of anyone expect for rhe Hurricanes , and they never spend on goalies and never go long term.
Helle can ask for 8.5 + all he wants but he isn’t going to get it if he wants a contender .
If Helle or Saros is out , I wouldn’t mind looking at Vladar .Not as a starter of course , just as a backup and AHL option and habe competition between Schmid VV Vladar. However, I’m not too pumped with that trio to see if they can perform in the playoffs. Our window is just starting but I,don’twant to waste a year if our goalies can’t perform in the playoffs.

This is going to get like the Bratt contract talk and I’m going to start saying the same thing over and over.

I don’t know what he would sign for, free will and all that. The models have him at a bit over 8.5m now, and that could go up with a higher cap next year.

Term affects the AAV. He might not get 8 years, since that means his deal ends when he’s 39, but there’s no way on earth he takes a short term (3-4 year deal). He’s going to be a top UFA and getting a giant pile of money.

Just because he wants to win doesn’t mean he’s at our mercy. Someone will pay him.

Sorokin will be 28 when his deal ends after 2023-24 and Shesterkin will 29 when his deal ends in 2024-25. I predict they’re both looking for at least 8 year/8.5m deals, if not more. Oettinger’s next RFA deal after 2024-25, when he’s 26, could be similar.

Markström was the last big goalie deal and he got a 6 year/6m deal at age 30 years 8 months for the 2020-21 season, after coming in distant 4th in Vezina voting. (And that was 1 of his 2 great seasons, he was a late bloomer.)

Not only was the cap 81.5m then, the CBA MOU was just signed 3 months earlier, so everyone knew what the cap’s (sucky) future was for the next few years. That was the off-season where UFA salaries fell.

So assuming we can Hellebuyck with a +1.5m more with less term, when the cap is predicted to be 6m higher and rising, is unrealistic.

I personally don’t see how Fitz can squeeze him enough to get a deal that wouldn’t scare the crap out of me.

I don’t make these decisions and I actually love Hellebuyck as a goalie, it’s not like my opinion effects anything or there’s no entertainment upside for me if we actually got him.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

 

[Figgie]

If Meier does not sign before june 30 so does that mean that he cant sign 8 year deal after that?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

If Meier does not sign before june 30 so does that mean that he cant sign 8 year deal after that?

he can sign an 8 year deal at any point since he was on the Devils roster as of this past trade deadline

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Eh, I don't like it because they could've used him elsewhere in a trade but Nemec + stop gap was the plan.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Damn. I had high hopes for Walsh since his DY. Seems like we got AHL fodder for him. Thought he’d be worth a 5th round pick at least.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I always keep forgetting this team has Casey too, yeah it's a whatever trade

 

[Guttersniped]

how much is sorokin going to get? if the caps going up, i’d go double digits on him next year instead of trading assets this year.

He’s probably going to reset the goalie market because there’s no way Lou lets him go. You’re talking about a guy who’s traded 1sts to get a goalie twice.

And if he’s not re-signing and Lou doesn’t trade him… that’s very bad for the Islanders and I don’t see him trading him to us.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Walsh was never going to be a player here. As soon as Fitz made his point last offseason about wanting guys on the blueline who had some length and could skate and move the puck but also know their primary responsibility on the backend and those fundamentals, the writing was on the wall. That isn't Walsh's game as far as I have seen. Seems like he can maybe find a niche as a 3rd pairing, PP2 guy but it wasn't going to be here.

Couple that with the Marino acquisition and the Nemec draft pick and the right side is clogged for years to come.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Gotta appreciate Fitz trading him to his hometown team as well.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

It's like Barry Trotz said with his view towards drafting. Swing for the fences , I can find 3rd and 4th line players everywhere during free agency. Walsh was a decent prospect but if he struggles to defend at the NHL level while playing a sheltered role and being on the 2nd power play unit than that makes him pretty much expandable. Luke , Nemec , Casey , Orlov , Barbaosha , Vilen , Leddy , McCarthy...we are still swimming in defense prospects after losing Shakir , Okhotiuk and Walsh in the last few months. I would still rather have those 3 but Shakoe is probably the only one with a high floor. Not to mention this year's draft we very well will be adding atleast 1 more d man with the 6 picks we have. Time to replace Walsh and move on. He still has NHL potential possibly but it just won't be here where our blueline looks to be crowded and good for the next 5 years minimum.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Anyone know anything at all on Bowers? I know he's pretty much been an AHLer, was shocked to see he was a 1st rounder in 2017.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

It's like Barry Trotz said with his view towards drafting. Swing for the fences , I can find 3rd and 4th line players everywhere during free agency. Walsh was a decent prospect but if he struggles to defend at the NHL level while playing a sheltered role and being on the 2nd power play unit than that makes him pretty much expandable. Luke , Nemec , Casey , Orlov , Barbaosha , Vilen , Leddy , McCarthy...we are still swimming in defense prospects after losing Shakir , Okhotiuk and Walsh in the last few months. I would still rather have those 3 but Shakoe is probably the only one with a high floor. Not to mention this year's draft we very well will be adding atleast 1 more d man with the 6 picks we have. Time to replace Walsh and move on. He still has NHL potential possibly but it just won't be here where our blueline looks to be crowded and good for the next 5 years minimum.

Im not sure if I would include third liners in that sentiment; example being to use a second or third round pick this year on a bigger forward whos solid defensively and can press guys out along the boards

Quality third liners who fit your build have value - thats not including the added size we desire up front