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Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

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Ripshot 43 said:
Quick someone with photoshop skills cover up the Sharks shirt

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7qeole.gif
 
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Zajacs Bowl Cut said:
I have no interest whatsoever in trading Holtz for a draft pick

if you told me we could trade him in a deal for a player that will help the team now, I'd listen but trading him for a mid to late 1st makes zero sense.
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It makes sense if you think you could get another prospect that is a better player or a better fit. I'm not sure a 1st round pick is even on the table but if it is there's a number of really good prospects projected to go towards the end of the 1st round in this class that are better roster fits than Holtz.
 
Unfortunately, it is pretty easy to see Holtz staying a perimeter player that can't win board battles and not turning into an impactful player.

I hope he develops, becomes a better skater and can win board battles, it will go a long way to him becoming a better player for us. Next season will be crucial. It is really almost a make or break in terms of whether he can be a top 6 player for us.
 
Lou Bloom said:
It makes sense if you think you could get another prospect that is a better player or a better fit. I'm not sure a 1st round pick is even on the table but if it is there's a number of really good prospects projected to go towards the end of the 1st round in this class that are better roster fits than Holtz.
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It’s just not a fit from a timeline perspective. Teams competitive now, why are we trading for a late first we won’t see for 2-4 years
 
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Holtz has less than 28 NHL games under his belt and he’s been yo-yo’d up and down the lineup in those games.

Holtz’s skating is fine, his main issue right now in my eyes is his decision making. He needs to process the game quicker and adjust to the speed of the NHL.

The only way he’ll do that is by getting more legit and consistent playing time with players that complement his skillset. That hasn’t truly happened yet.

Holtz’s strengths would be great in our lineup. A dangerous right shot is exactly what the doctor ordered.

The kid just turned 21. It seems really premature to me to move him.
 
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I really don’t see the fit for Holtz. I think there’s 2 top 9 spots open. I think they add one guy and then Clarke will be better for the other.
 
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MasterofGrond said:
It’s just not a fit from a timeline perspective. Teams competitive now, why are we trading for a late first we won’t see for 2-4 years
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Look at the Drouin for Sergachev trade as an example. Did it hurt the Lightning to trade the player further along in his development for the player just coming off his D+1 season?

It's also not like we're talking about trading a proven NHL performer for a draft pick, there's a chance Holtz ends up in a similar situation as last year being Yo-Yoed between Utica and New Jersey and having minimal impact on the NHL roster and his value will drop immensely if that were to happen.
 
I didn't think I could dislike Holtz any more than I already do and then I just saw Mukhamadullin had 10 points in 12 games for the Barracuda.

FML.
 
Forge said:
Honestly, I don't even mind the skating all that much...you can find a way to structure lines that it's not the biggest issue...but it feels like Holtz is very, very passive to me.

To put it bluntly...Holtz kind of feels like he doesn't have that dog in him.
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I don't know if I'd call it him naturally being passive. I don't think he tries to play passively. He just doesn't think the game well enough to put himself in the right spots to be anything but passive. When you are constantly out of position and incapable of reading defenses, you will look passive because you are thinking the game two steps behind everyone else. It's the same reason people think he's a bad skater. He's not a bad skater (he's about average), but because he's constantly out of position, he never gets to effectively use his skating.

I hate to bring up some bad apples, but there's a pretty bad trend of players who get drafted really high solely because of their shot turning into, at the bare minimum, dissappointments. Kieffer Bellows, Owen Tippett, Oliver Wahlstrom, Alex Holtz. The guys who haven't had infinitely better all around games and have translated extremely well, namely Cole Caufield and Jack Quinn. Both of those players not only arguably had the best shots in the draft, but had quick releases and could score in a variety of ways. They were the best goal scorers. It is way more important to be a good goal scorer than a good shooter. Being a good shooter means nothing unless you really know how to use your shot. It's easy to light it up in Juniors having a crazy shot because you will naturally have more lanes open up because of worse defense and easier goalies to score on. Doesn't really help with developing that game sense for creating shots for yourself at a higher level.
 
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Lou Bloom said:
It makes sense if you think you could get another prospect that is a better player or a better fit. I'm not sure a 1st round pick is even on the table but if it is there's a number of really good prospects projected to go towards the end of the 1st round in this class that are better roster fits than Holtz.
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Holtz is a player with better floor than most you have in the first round. And he is much closer to nhl. I understand top-12/14 pick, but outside of that it’s a bad strategy in the moment. you will have the same question with Perrault, Heidt, Cristall.
Musty is a better skater but his positional game is close to be bad and even Holtz is more hard worker.
Gulyayev and Pellikka have huge questions about defending. Danielson doesn’t have iq and barely see partners.
Stenberg is an interesting option but his lack of playmaking and physicality makes him questionable as specific role player. He doesn’t have good puck handling to drive the net, so even with his good forechecking and skating he can hit the limit. I’m not saying he will be better, but it’s not like he is absolutely better as the prospect.
But is looking good as complimentary Interior player with skill and size, but we don’t know how many years we should wait, how lack of playmaking vision will limit him.

I’m not trying to making dark this draft, all of this players are very talented, but in after 15 pick all of this players aren’t obviously better than Holtz.
 
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i think Meier and Holtz were made to be on a line together. Meier just rushes the net/or swings behind with Holtz trailing down the right side into the middle, doesnt even matter who has the puck*. pre-season will be fun to watch

edit: *as long as its one of them :thumbu:
 
RememberTheName said:
I don't know if I'd call it him naturally being passive. I don't think he tries to play passively. He just doesn't think the game well enough to put himself in the right spots to be anything but passive. When you are constantly out of position and incapable of reading defenses, you will look passive because you are thinking the game two steps behind everyone else. It's the same reason people think he's a bad skater. He's not a bad skater (he's about average), but because he's constantly out of position, he never gets to effectively use his skating.

I hate to bring up some bad apples, but there's a pretty bad trend of players who get drafted really high solely because of their shot turning into, at the bare minimum, dissappointments. Kieffer Bellows, Owen Tippett, Oliver Wahlstrom, Alex Holtz. The guys who haven't had infinitely better all around games and have translated extremely well, namely Cole Caufield and Jack Quinn. Both of those players not only arguably had the best shots in the draft, but had quick releases and could score in a variety of ways. They were the best goal scorers. It is way more important to be a good goal scorer than a good shooter. Being a good shooter means nothing unless you really know how to use your shot. It's easy to light it up in Juniors having a crazy shot because you will naturally have more lanes open up because of worse defense and easier goalies to score on. Doesn't really help with developing that game sense for creating shots for yourself at a higher level.
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Your point is well taken, however Holtz has gotten significantly less consistent time in the NHL compared to the other 3 players that you mentioned, who are all roughly at or above 100 NHL games.

I’d like to see Holtz get a consistent opportunity before I write him off.
 
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