Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[JimEIV]

uh huh

Hey remember when Graves was terrible against Carolina and a big reason we lost that series?

Graves was "a big reason" we lost the series?

I kind of thought only scoring 5 goals in the 4 losses was a much bigger problem. Or the only problem one might say.

 

[JimEIV]

Oh yea, the entire defense is a big question mark at this point. Most are all very excited and have faith that it will work out better with maybe some hiccups along the way, but no doubt losing both Graves and Severson is going to be something to adjust for.

If everyone hits their potential, easily top D corps in the league, if a couple hit their potential or just become good players, we are still in a great place. A lot has to go wrong for it not to work out, but there also has to be some growing pains before it does work out.

I assume Luke is going to be getting a majority of those minutes and as long as he doesn't play defense like John Moore there is probably not much to worry about.

I think Bahl can handle the additional role...but it is a long season. It would be very understandable for one or both to struggle mightily over the course of 82 games.

 

[Blackjack]

Graves was "a big reason" we lost the series?

I kind of thought only scoring 5 goals in the 4 losses was a much bigger problem. Or the only problem one might say.

Yeah, guess it’s hard to score goals when you spend 20 minutes pinned in your own zone.

 

[JimEIV]

Yeah, guess it’s hard to score goals when you spend 20 minutes pinned in your own zone.

When you are pinned in your own zone for 20 minutes it's just as big of an indictment on the forwards as it is the defense.

 

[Guttersniped]

When reached for a response, Langenbrunner just pouted and scowled.

Langs always looks like he’s seen some shit.

His interview in one of the retirement videos from a few years ago had the carefree fun vibe of a hostage video.

But I still have a lot of affection for the grump.

 

[Cheddabombs]

The Hockey Guy picking us to win the Cup, which pretty much guarantees we will! He has a nice channel, I encourage anyone to check it out!

 

[JimEIV]

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Langs always looks like he’s seen some shit.

His interview in one of the retirement videos from a few years ago had the carefree fun vibe of a hostage video.

But I still have a lot of affection for the grump.

Would've been nice if he could've shaved for the big event.

 

[JimEIV]

i don't think graves was actually as good defensively as you are making him out to be, and i think bahl can actually play 4 more minutes a night than he did last year - hes young and still improving. im not sure what kind of answers you are expecting, you know who is on the roster and who will be in the lineup

I don't think I was making him out to be good or bad or anything...we saw what we got from him playing just shy of 20 minutes a night(19:57) over 78 games.

We saw what we got from Bahl playing 14 minutes a night over 1/2 a season.

To expect Bahl to increase his minutes by as much as 35% over twice the duration is kind of poor decision making in my mind...just being honest


But I don't expect that is how it'll shake out. I expect Luke to get the majority of those minutes.

Like this at even strength for the left side

Siegenthaler 18+
Luke 16
Bahl 13. Bahl will be the 2nd LHD PKer.

 

[My3Sons]

When you are pinned in your own zone for 20 minutes it's just as big of an indictment on the forwards as it is the defense.

The team is still a work in progress. Winning in the playoffs and learning how to win multiple rounds is a process and I’m sure they learned something last season. My guess is they will have another chance this season to play Carolina in the second round and we can see what they have learned. My guess is they will be much better.

 

[Bleedred]

Within chrome, its just a few clicks, typed out it looks like you are doing something crazy, but its really is simple.

Listen to this shit.

I tried what you said and somehow this site doesn’t come up in my most visited or any visited sites at all lol.

I don’t know if it’s somehow “Blocked” now or something because I’m getting that bad request thing or what. Other sites I look at come up though.

It’s been working off and on (mostly off) since I first posted that picture of it tonight, but only the main page. Maybe, just maybe, if I just leave it alone when I get the homepage of the site up and then try what you told me to do, then maybe it will come up on my visited sites? That’ll be the next thing I try.

Now I probably won’t be able to get the site to come up at all for a few days now haha.

 

[JimEIV]

The team is still a work in progress. Winning in the playoffs and learning how to win multiple rounds is a process and I’m sure they learned something last season. My guess is they will have another chance this season to play Carolina in the second round and we can see what they have learned. My guess is they will be much better.

I agree. And to that point, blaming one defenseman as big reason for the series loss is a bit hyperbolic.

 

[Bleedred]

I won't be surprised to see Cal Foote stay with the Devils as opposed to Utica and for him to get significant playing time. He's an experienced defenseman with a good pedigree of being a piece of a winning team in Tampa Bay where he logged a fair amount of playoff time too if I remember correctly.

I think he’s awful. He was an anchor that got carried around by McDonagh and Hedman at points. Colin White looked like a better defenseman than really he was when he was playing with Niedermayer and got carried by him.

Disclaimer: I’m definitely not saying Colin White was as bad as Cal Foote has been at the NHL level to this point. He definitely wasn’t.

I honestly don’t see where he fits when everybody is healthy. Right now Brendan Smith is the 7th defenseman when everyone is healthy. I don’t see how Foote has passed him on the depth chart, at least not as of the start of the season.

When injuries happen he’ll probably get call ups though, but I don’t see where he fits as an everyday player. We acquired Colin Miller via trade, who is a way better player. And Luke Hughes will be on the team. Miller and Hughes basically replace Graves and Severson. Not necessarily in role or minutes, just in spots and the game of musical chairs on the defense.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Listen to this shit.

I tried what you said and somehow this site doesn’t come up in my most visited or any visited sites at all lol.

I don’t know if it’s somehow “Blocked” now or something because I’m getting that bad request thing or what. Other sites I look at come up though.

It’s been working off and on (mostly off) since I first posted that picture of it tonight, but only the main page. Maybe, just maybe, if I just leave it alone when I get the homepage of the site up and then try what you told me to do, then maybe it will come up on my visited sites? That’ll be the next thing I try.

Now I probably won’t be able to get the site to come up at all for a few days now haha.

Well deleting the cookies deletes all data attached, like starting from scratch, as long as you log back in, everything that matters within the site is still there though. Chrome itself will act like you've never been there before but after a couple times all should be the same. Doing this sometimes fixes weird issues with sites, but not this time obviously. I have no idea what's going on with what you are describing lol.

 

[MadDevil]

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Langs always looks like he’s seen some shit.

His interview in one of the retirement videos from a few years ago had the carefree fun vibe of a hostage video.

But I still have a lot of affection for the grump.

I still maintain the real Langenbrunner was abducted at the Vancouver Olympics and replaced with Captain Crabass.

 

[Bleedred]

Well deleting the cookies deletes all data attached, like starting from scratch, as long as you log back in, everything that matters within the site is still there though. Chrome itself will act like you've never been there before but after a couple times all should be the same. Doing this sometimes fixes weird issues with sites, but not this time obviously. I have no idea what's going on with what you are describing lol.

I can delete the cookies for other sites I’ve been to, but for some reason this site doesn’t show up on the sites I’ve visited. Even when I search for it.

 

[glenwo2]

View attachment 741816View attachment 741817View attachment 741817
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Langs always looks like he’s seen some shit.

His interview in one of the retirement videos from a few years ago had the carefree fun vibe of a hostage video.

But I still have a lot of affection for the grump.

Maybe he always looks like that because he's wondering if he forgot to wipe after taking a dump?

 

[TrufleShufle]

I can delete the cookies for other sites I’ve been to, but for some reason this site doesn’t show up on the sites I’ve visited. Even when I search for it.

it took me a second, but typing in hfboards and nothing else brought it up for me. Try typing in the search "boards"

First time I typed HF it didnt come up, its all weird man. Idk

 

[My3Sons]

I agree. And to that point, blaming one defenseman as big reason for the series loss is a bit hyperbolic.

It’s almost never one player. Maybe a goalie just absolutely fails but you generally win and lose as a team.

 

[My3Sons]

I don't think I was making him out to be good or bad or anything...we saw what we got from him playing just shy of 20 minutes a night(19:57) over 78 games.

We saw what we got from Bahl playing 14 minutes a night over 1/2 a season.

To expect Bahl to increase his minutes by as much as 35% over twice the duration is kind of poor decision making in my mind...just being honest


But I don't expect that is how it'll shake out. I expect Luke to get the majority of those minutes.

Like this at even strength for the left side

Siegenthaler 18+
Luke 16
Bahl 13. Bahl will be the 2nd LHD PKer.

Can’t Siegs play 20 minutes at five on five? Maybe he plays another three minutes on thr PK but that should be doable. Figure another six minutes on the PP for Hamilton and Hughes and one more minute on the PK for Bahl and that leaves Hughes and Bahl to play about 15 minutes each at even strength. For better or worse they have to hop it works. As for Fitz’s comments he has to say that. He can’t admit that they let their vets walk because they wouldn’t sign short term deals to let Bahl and Luke marinate.

 

[Guttersniped]

uh huh

Hey remember when Graves was terrible against Carolina and a big reason we lost that series?

I remember Siegenthaler was often worse, and is still on this team, and Graves has an upper-body injury.

I like Siegenthaler but he struggled at times last season, and Marino struggled at times in the playoffs, so I don’t know how making Graves a scapegoat reflects reality.

I won't be surprised to see Cal Foote stay with the Devils as opposed to Utica and for him to get significant playing time. He's an experienced defenseman with a good pedigree of being a piece of a winning team in Tampa Bay where he logged a fair amount of playoff time too if I remember correctly.

Foote is too slow, that’s why he didn’t stick in Tampa or Nashville, and he had plenty of opportunity on both teams.

He didn’t play a ton in the 2021-22 Playoffs, he played 13 of the 23 games and was a bottom pairing defenseman who averaged 11:29.

Nothing wrong with that, he was 23 at the time, but it was a problem when he got pushed out of the line-up, and eventually off the team, by Nicklaus Perbix (2017 6th Rd #169).

I just don’t see him beating out Miller, particularly since Miller has NHL PK experience and we need that in the line-up.

 

[JimEIV]

Can’t Siegs play 20 minutes at five on five? Maybe he plays another three minutes on thr PK but that should be doable. Figure another six minutes on the PP for Hamilton and Hughes and one more minute on the PK for Bahl and that leaves Hughes and Bahl to play about 15 minutes each at even strength. For better or worse they have to hop it works. As for Fitz’s comments he has to say that. He can’t admit that they let their vets walk because they wouldn’t sign short term deals to let Bahl and Luke marinate.

No Dman on the team averaged even 19 minutes at ES last year. Dougie led the team with 18:31.

Can he play 20 minutes a game some nights? Sure, that will most certainly happen from time to time but he can't/shouldn't average that. 20 minutes ES is a big ask for any length of time.

If Siegenthaler averages 20 minutes at ES he'll end up being a 23 minute Dman with his PK responsibilities...I honestly don't think he is capable of that...I mean he could do it, just not effectively most likely.

 

[Blackjack]

I remember Siegenthaler was often worse, and is still on this team, and Graves has an upper-body injury.

I like Siegenthaler but he struggled at times last season, and Marino struggled at times in the playoffs, so I don’t know how making Graves a scapegoat reflects reality.

Fine but Siegenthaler and Marino are constants from last year to this year. Graves is the one giving us apoplectic fits over how we're going to replace his 20 ES minutes or whatever.

My only point is that those minutes weren't that great.

 

[My3Sons]

Fine but Siegenthaler and Marino are constants from last year to this year. Graves is the one giving us apoplectic fits over how we're going to replace his 20 ES minutes or whatever.

My only point is that those minutes weren't that great.

I’d say they were uneven. Generally pretty good. At times Seversonesque and at times excellent.

 

[BronzeAgeDevilsFan]

Can’t Siegs play 20 minutes at five on five? Maybe he plays another three minutes on thr PK but that should be doable. Figure another six minutes on the PP for Hamilton and Hughes and one more minute on the PK for Bahl and that leaves Hughes and Bahl to play about 15 minutes each at even strength. For better or worse they have to hop it works. As for Fitz’s comments he has to say that. He can’t admit that they let their vets walk because they wouldn’t sign short term deals to let Bahl and Luke marinate.

Sieg's even strength time will be limited by the need to replace Graves 2:24 PK TOI per game (2nd on the team). It looks like Hughes will get more even strength TOI than we expect due to the Graves PK time hole (no single replacement, but Siegs, Bahl, and Miller should be able to cover it at the expense of their own ES time) and also due to Hughes' being the 2nd best offensive dman.

I am expecting the number of mistakes from the defense to go up this season, with the caveat that we have an obvious staffing mismatch on defense. I quote myself below in reference to this.

Overall, I think we can expect a marginal improvement in net so, even with the downgrade in defensive skill/experience, having one of the best forward groups in the league should keep us all happy.

6/29

Looking at the pool of free agent d-men, I am not sure what we do with it. Anyone have any ideas? I saw some mention Gudas but I think he will be out of price range. I also think Smith is a huge liability, and am actually more worried about the left side than right.

I am more comfortable with Nemec in the top 6 getting 15 minutes with a experienced partner than I am with Luke/Bahl/Smith rotating.

 

[JimEIV]

Did anyone notice how good Severson was last year? Gaffs seemed to diminish and was pretty solid all year.

It was the reduction of minutes... that's it. Nothing else.

This season was the first season that he was under 22 minutes ATOI since 2018 and it was reflected in his overall play.


2023 ES 17:34 - 19:57
2022 ES 18:43 - 23:36
2021 ES 18:36 - 22:29
2020 ES 18:31 - 22:58
2019 ES 18:05 - 22:03
2018 ES 17:40 - 19:41

Severson shouldn't have been playing those big minutes. I think had we had an adequate Defense and Shero not neglected it for 5 years we'd have a much different view of Severson....with even just a little bit of help.