Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[tailfins]

Completely agree. I can actually see a world where we extend Luke in 10-12 months to the identical contract that Jack received. Both brothers making 8x8.

8x8 seems like a ton. It's not my money, so if the cap math can work, I certainly like the idea of Luke being locked up for 8 years.

I also wouldn't be surprised at a bridge if Luke has a (typical) inconsistent year, though. One year is not a lot of data and I can see Luke maybe not wanting to settle for a lower amount given how well his brothers have done (and how relatively underpaid they are).

 

[Guttersniped]

Correct me if I am wrong.

I felt like the Parise “wanting to play close to home” was a over blown narrative. At the time (and now) those were absurd contracts, but a close to home story is better. Its sucks his dad got sick, but I don’t think that was known at the time of the signing. In hindsight it has been used as his argument for why he left.

The Devils were bad for a while after he left, but with Zachs personal and health issues, I am not sure he would of helped much.

His dad wasn’t sick yet. The Athletic had an article where they were both interviewed.

Halfway into Parise-Suter deals, here’s the full story of how it all went down

Those involved with the blockbuster signings in July 2012 share their memories of how Zach Parise and Ryan Suter ended up in Minnesota.

theathletic.com

Here, they talk candidly about everything from the perception that Parise and Suter were aligned in the months leading up to free agency and that they always planned on being a free-agent tag-team (not true), to the Wild never believing they would actually be able to get both players, to details of the negotiations and how close Parise and Suter came to signing elsewhere, to a trip to Madison on July 3 to court Suter on the same day he was meeting with the Detroit Red Wings.

Key part of here:

It’s hard to dig through all the minutia, not because people are holding back, but because everybody has different memories and beliefs and individual truths, which makes sense because it’s not like the Wild got both sides on the phone together to negotiate these contracts.

Parise: It was exciting. But it was really nerve-racking. There was a lot, I guess, a lot more that went into it that you just don’t really think about when leading up to it. I think what made it even more challenging was we just finished playing, what, two weeks before that? And then we were wedding planning, too. We had a lot of shit going on. You’re devastated you lost in the finals, and next thing you know, you may be leaving the team you grew up on. So you have all those emotions. It was a really stressful, stressful few weeks leading up to July 1, I guess.

Parise: It was just crazy. Everybody was offering big-time money. Stuff like, 117 (million), north of 110. I mean, you have to seriously consider it, you know? You have to really think about it. I feel like everyone was relatively similar. Some teams, the teams that were really good, they play it like you have to take a little less because you’re going to play with this guy and that guy and we’re a Cup-contending team, so you have to stay within our framework, where the other lower-echelon teams, they could offer you more. As it usually goes, the good teams are usually capped out and the other teams are somewhere a little lower, so they have a little more to offer. It was pretty cool because a lot of players from teams reached out. But it was, it was really stressful. And we didn’t have that luxury of that (relatively new free-agent) interview period. It was like, July 1, phone’s ringing, here we go, “When are you going to make your decision?” You couldn’t go visit places. I really wish we would’ve had that opportunity to do that.

Shortly after 11 a.m. July 1, Fletcher sent two brief emails to Parise’s agent and Suter’s agent expressing the Wild’s desire in signing their respective clients. In the emails, the Wild officially submitted their initial offers, including term, salary and potential structure. The problem was both agents were bombarded by other interested teams and the Wild didn’t hear back from either until very late in the day. That felt like an eternity. Phone calls went to voicemail to each agent. Parise was getting peppered with phone calls. The Buffalo Sabres knocked Parise’s door down with well more than $100 million. The Chicago Blackhawks and Los Angeles Kings pursued him aggressively. Sidney Crosby called and Mario Lemieux texted and wanted him to come to Pittsburgh. Alex Ovechkin and Matt Hendricks called and wanted him in Washington. Patrice Bergeron called and wanted him in Boston. Chris Pronger called and wanted him to come to Philly. Eric Staal called and wanted him in Carolina. Matt Cullen called to pump up Minnesota. Similarly, Suter was getting calls from Hall of Famers like Lemieux in Pittsburgh and Chris Chelios in Detroit.

Arnott: We expected it to be a lengthy process with Zach, but it ended up being probably much more complex and lengthier than maybe we even anticipated. … You know Zach. He’s a button-down individual, and we did do a lot of planning leading into July 1 and thought we probably covered off everything, but there were some curveballs there that happened, starting on July 1, that was just very unique I guess is the way I’d put it, very unique.

Arnott was clearly referring to, among other things, the eventual alignment between Parise and Suter, and the fact they decided to not only take significantly less money than other teams were offering but the fact that Parise called them the night of July 3 and instructed them that he wanted to take less money than the Wild were offering so he and Suter came in on identical contracts.

Arnott: Going into free agency, it was never Zach and Ryan going to the same team. Honestly. It was the 11th hour to go together. They went about their business independently. People think they were talking every second. They were monitoring each other very loosely. … Just sort of two friends checking in with each other to see what was going on, and vice versa.

One of the articles themes is Suter and Parise and their agents didn’t actively work together in Free Agency before July 1st or right at the start on July 1st.

Obviously they could for sure plan on going to the same team, considering they were both up for massive contracts, but they had discussed from the beginning and it was a big factor with their eventual signings.

It was discussed before July 1st though.

Parise: I remember I talked to him after our season ended and I said, “Hey dude, do you want to come to New Jersey? We’ve got a good team. We’re just fresh off the finals.” And he wasn’t very interested in it, which I understand. And he said the same thing about Nashville, and I’m like, “Well, we’ll see where it goes.” We really kind of kept in touch throughout the thing, but never really said, “Hey, wherever we go, let’s do this.” You know what I mean? It was more, we just kind of talked at the end of each one of the days, if I remember right. Just kind of, “Hey, where’s your head at? Where are you thinking? Where are you looking at?” Again, it wasn’t really, “We’re gonna go somewhere together no matter what.” It wasn’t like that. I think that it kind of got painted like that, but it wasn’t like that at all.

And Suter wanted to play in the Midwest.

Sagissor: On July 1, the shit started to come. The first offer came in from Washington, and then it came in from Detroit, and then it came in from Pittsburgh, and then it came in from Minnesota. Then all of a sudden f***ing Philadelphia … (general manager) Paul Holmgren said to Neil, straight out, “I don’t care how much money it is, I want the player.” And Neil calls me, and he’s telling me like, “Whoa, this could be like the biggest contract ever. You’ve gotta talk to Ryan. You gotta talk to Ryan.”

So, Sagissor called Suter, told him the offer, believed to be $117 million, and Suter wasn’t interested. As much as he respected the Flyers organization and believed they had a core to win for a long time, Suter decided for family reasons he wanted to be close to the Midwest. Suter started to really zero in on Detroit — who like Philly, was ready to pay anything — and the Wild.

Sagissor: That’s when I asked Neil, “Are you comfortable if I’m talking to Craig Leipold?” And he said, “Absolutely, whatever we gotta do.” So Craig and I started talking and here’s what turned me. There was such a genuine, passionate conversation from Craig Leipold. I couldn’t believe his level of commitment. The franchise was going the wrong direction. It was languishing. Their season-ticket sales were going down, the team wasn’t playing very well. There was just a megaton of shit there, and Craig’s like, “I’m gonna turn this thing around. I need Ryan to help me.” I mean, Craig was like all-in: “We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup, and this is how we’re going to do it.” He had a clear path and a clear strategy. So, I had a chance to talk to a few other people, and then I came back to Ryan, and I said, “Ryan, after talking to Detroit, after talking to Washington, after talking to Pittsburgh, and then after talking to Minnesota, you know, you said to me six weeks ago you really wanted to be in Minnesota. Let me tell you something, it’s the right place. And let me tell you why, because of the commitment from the owner. This guy is the real deal.”

Suter has a phone call with Wild owner Craig Leopold and its love at first talk. This is one of my favorite parts because one of the reasons Guerin buys Suter’s ass out is he’s infamously super pals with Leopold, and if he had problem with a coach, GM, etc, he would go over their head to Leopold. (Suter is also infamously an asshole.)

MOST IMPORTANT ZACH POINT AND WHY HE WAS A GONER:

Here’s the problem: Suter had just gotten off the phone with Parise and he was leaning toward Pittsburgh or Chicago and wanted Suter to come there. Suter did his due diligence. A couple phone calls later, Suter began talking to Parise more seriously about Minnesota. Suter’s people say Suter did most of the convincing. Parise’s people have a different take.

Arnott: Zach had a number of objectives, and one of the objectives was to go to a team at this stage in his career with a bright, young core (In Minnesota, it would be considered Mikael Granlund, Jason Zucker, Jonas Brodin, Matt Dumba and Charlie Coyle at the time), a world-class centerman (considered to be Mikko Koivu) and a world-class defenseman. At the time, if you remember, not so much the case now, but, at the time, Minnesota didn’t really have a world-class defenseman. So, Minnesota had checked almost if not all the boxes for Zach with the exception of this one. And he was struggling with that. I remember vividly in our office, it was me who said to Zach I think on (July 2), “Why don’t you find out exactly where Ryan is and see if he wants to consider Minnesota, and maybe that checks the box here?” That’s just as simple as how that started. Ryan and Zach really compared notes the rest of the way.”

Yes, if he was weak-willed enough to let Suter bully him to go to Minnesota he was off to Pittsburgh because they had a great core. You know what team didn’t have a great core? The New Jersey Devils.

And then they told the Wild they both wanted to sign.

Sagissor: I’m in Alaska, it’s July 2, and Ryan and Zach start talking, and they’re like, “Let’s go to Minnesota together.” Zach still wasn’t convinced. Ryan calls me and said, “Do you think Craig would be interested having both Zach and me?” I said, “I don’t know, I’ve never even talked to him about it.” My understanding all along was Chuck was trying to get Zach and Chuck was also trying to get Ryan with the understanding that they would only get one or the other. So, I call Craig. I say, “How committed are you?” He says, “I’m committed.” I said, “Well, do you want both of them?” Craig goes, “They’d both sign here?” I said, “Craig, anything is possible, but you as an owner have to be willing to move forward.” He just goes, “Wow, that’d really change the organization.” I mean, this guy thought about it for 20 seconds and said, “Alright, we’ll do it.” His balls were bigger than the Liberty Bell. There was no conversation about money.

Leipold: I had been unaware that Zach and Ryan had any kind of idea that they’d go to the same team. That was never on my radar until the last second when I heard, “Hey, if you want Parise, you can get both of them.” It was a last-minute thought. Sags was really the guy who was leading the charge and driving the bus for Suter. Sags and I being friends were talking back and forth. Suter was kind of the guy that we were targeting as was a lot of other teams. I remember Sags saying, “Listen, Craig, you can get Parise and Suter — both of them — they both would like to go to the same team.” I remember Chuck and I had a conversation: “Could we make it work?” He said, “Yeah, we can make it work, but we’d have to change strategy a little bit.” I’m like, “Do it.” These kinds of decisions don’t come but once in a lifetime for a general manager or a team, for that matter. The decision was just quickly made that, let’s go for it. This is it. This is our opportunity and these kinds of decisions aren’t made for the meek and wary. They’re made for people who want to make a big move.

Sagissor: I just called Ryan and said, “OK, Craig’s committed to signing both of you. Go to work on Zach.”

Suter: He called me up and said, “OK, I’ll do it.” And we did it. He gave me the nod and I told those guys, “Hey, he’ll come, too.”

Sagissor: Ryan calls me back late July 2 and said, “Zach’s on board. Let’s go to Minnesota.” Now, I’m in the wild blue yonder of Alaska. Major problem: Ryan has made a commitment to Detroit to meet with them and that meeting is July 3 in Madison. I picked up the phone and called Craig and said, “Craig, if you want to get this deal done, you need to get that plane fired up, go pick up Neil Sheehy in International Falls, bring him back to St. Paul, and you, me, Chuck and Mike Yeo will fly to Madison and sit down with Ryan and I’ll make sure the deal’s complete.”

Sagissor flew back to Minnesota from Alaska. On July 3, Leipold’s plane picked up Sheehy and brought him back to St. Paul. In the conference room at Signature Flight Support, Sheehy and Sagissor met with Leipold and Fletcher to begin contract negotiations. Sagissor and Leipold say verbal commitments from Parise and Suter were pretty much ironed down right there during that face-to-face meeting and a phone conversation between Fletcher and Arnott. Sheehy and Arnott’s memories are different and that while it may have been looking likely that Parise and Suter were destined for Minnesota, there was still a lot of work to do toward structuring the framework for contracts. Leipold, Sagissor, Sheehy, Fletcher and Yeo boarded the plane for Madison. When they landed, what do you know, Leipold’s plane parked right next to Red Wings owner Mike Ilitch’s plane.

Leipold: We park right next to the Little Caesars plane (laughing). Suter met us at the plane and I said, “You’re not going to change your mind?” He goes, “No, no, no, no, no. I’m with ya. I’m with ya. But they came here and I should meet with them and give them that opportunity to meet with me.” And I said, “Hey, that’s the right thing to do. Just don’t change your mind!” Ryan suddenly got a text message from Chris Chelios with a picture of a Brinks truck with the comment, “We’ve arrived and we’re driving to the meeting.” I said, “Do not change your mind!”

Sagissor decided to bow out of the Red Wings meeting at the business office belonging to him and Suter. He’s tight with Chelios and didn’t want to be in the meeting knowing that Suter was probably signing with Minnesota. Suter and Sheehy met with Holland, Babcock and Chelios and they did everything to woo Suter.

Sheehy: Ryan’s intentions may have been to sign with Minnesota at that point. I don’t know that. But nothing was done. You’re talking to a lawyer. Nothing’s done until it’s done. There were two negotiations that still needed to take place and there were no parameters yet. So yes, while I believe Ryan and Zach had already decided to sign with Minnesota, it wasn’t confirmed yet and we met with Detroit. Ryan almost had tears in his eyes in the meeting. They gave him a Detroit “Suter” jersey. Detroit was a valid place for him to go. My guess is if Ryan and Zach didn’t get together that Detroit was probably the place Ryan was going to end up. That was my read on it. Detroit was a close second.

This story is another favorite part. (Suter had tears in his eyes says lawyer agent close to Chelios.)

Beta Parise asks to take less money so it could to Alpha Suter instead.

Sheehy: I don’t know all the details, but all of a sudden Chuck was selling us on Zach getting more money and I said, “Listen, that ain’t happening. These two have to come in at the same level, as equals. And Chuck told me after the fact, after it was all said and done, that I was right, that this was the right way to go.

Suter and Parise got on the phone and agreed to take identical contracts. Parise called Meehan and Arnott, his stunned agents.

Arnott: Zach was getting more money, mostly because of him being the forward and the goal-scorer and the premium on that at the time, so we had to structure both deals on the eve of the 3rd, I think. We were preparing for Zach to go back to Minnesota and announce the next day. Then, that evening, Zach called me and said, “Listen, at the end of the day, I understand clearly how there could be a difference in total compensation,” but Zach didn’t want to necessarily break the $100 million threshold at the time, which was (Ilya) Kovalchuk in New Jersey. And he was willing to give back something to even it out exactly to Ryan. So, Ryan was originally less than what he has now. So, we gave back and made them identical contracts, so that was unique. I think back now, it wasn’t easy. Again, another curveball for us that you don’t see that often. At the end of the day, we listened to Zach’s request and concerns and instructions. He’s the client, and I understood them. Obviously, at that level of compensation, the deal and length and everything else, it was probably more palatable than it might’ve been if it was at a different level, let’s say.

Zach turned down more money (and chance to screw up Pittsburgh’s cap future).

The other unique part of this was Parise and Suter taking significantly less money in Minnesota than they could have elsewhere.

Arnott: Zach had, I can remember, three deals on the table that were more than the money he has right now, so he turned down more money in total dollars, aggregate dollars than he signed for in Minnesota. But once we had the two players agree they’d go there, I structured all of Zach’s contract with Chuck. Ryan and Zach agreed that they wanted the exact same structure, another unique twist to this.

The aftermath:

A little more than two months after the signing of Parise and Suter, the owners locked out the players for the third time in commissioner Gary Bettman’s tenure and the second time in eight years. Unlike the wiped-out 2004-05 season, the league did resume in Jan. 2013 with a brand-new collective bargaining agreement that in part took aim at the type of contracts Parise and Suter signed. The maximum length of term free agents can now sign for elsewhere is seven years. Teams can re-sign their own players for no longer than eight-year terms.

The league also went after front-loaded contracts like Parise and Suter. Of the $98 million Parise and Suter signed for, $88 million comes in the first nine years of the deal with $25 million of the $35 million they made their first three years coming in signing bonuses. They make $6 million in Year 10 of the deal, then $2 million when they’re 38 years old and $1 million each when they’re 39 and 40 years old. By structuring the contracts that way, those final-year salaries lowered the Wild’s cap hit for each of the 13 years to a more manageable $7.538 million for each player.

These types of back-diving contracts can no longer occur.

Arnott: I truly believe these two contracts and this situation was the straw that broke the camel’s back for the league, 100 percent. They had to put parameters on this in the next CBA. That was a high priority for them. Once we knew we had a deal, we spent a lot of time on favorable structure. You won’t see contracts like these two again in terms of just structure. Obviously, the length of terms and total dollars were precedent-setting, but structure, you’ll never see that again.

And their Dads (and not winning the Cup)

Parise and Suter, in large part, signed with Minnesota for family reasons. In the cruelest of coincidences though, Suter’s dad, Bob, and Parise’s dad, J.P., died four months apart during the 2014-15 season.

Suter: Besides the fact I liked our team and believed and believe we can win here, I chose Minnesota over a lot of teams because of lifestyle. I wanted to raise my family in the Midwest. I wanted to be close to home for my dad to come watch games. That didn’t work out the way we thought it would. But (wife) Becky was from Minnesota. Just a lot of things. I always liked Minnesota. Playing in Minnesota. It’s a lot like Wisconsin. And I knew that if we came, we could do something. It sucks we haven’t been able to win it all. I mean, we made the playoffs, which is great, but …

Six-and-a-half years after the Parise and Suter Fourth of July blockbusters, the Wild have not won a Stanley Cup and have only won two playoff rounds. Parise and Suter aren’t getting younger. Parise is 34. Suter turns 34 later this month. And the Wild, even though they’ve won three of their last four games, are still outside the top-8 in the West as it reaches the season’s midpoint.

Suter: We’ve got to take that next step and now we’ve got to find a way to get to the ultimate prize. There is definitely (a concern). Yeah. For sure there is. We don’t run the team. People might think we do. We don’t. People say we do. We don’t. Do we want to win? Yes. Of course. Is it hard to win? Yes. Are we close? Yes. But we have to, especially the way things are going right now, we’ve got to get this thing figured out quick so that it doesn’t set us back. So, that we can improve our team and not be sellers (at the Feb. 25 trade deadline). It’s important for us to get her going here and get this team playing the way it’s capable of playing.

Parise: I will say that I’ve never looked back, for the only reason, I got to spend more time with my dad. For that reason alone, I’ll never think twice about it. It is funny, every other team that I came close to signing with has won the Cup or has been in the finals since. The team would’ve been different if I was there, but that part’s always in the back of your mind. But it’s been great, I’ve enjoyed it here and I’m still hopeful and we’re still working our way, getting to that level. I hope it can happen (during our careers here). There’s things that are out of our hands. We’re not building a team. I do believe, and I’m very optimistic and hopeful that we can still put together a team that’s capable of winning it all. And just for me personally, after a tough couple years, I feel as good as I’ve felt for 10 years. Outside of sometimes you get a little more sore the day after games, I don’t feel like I’m slowing down. I don’t. I train the right way. I take care of myself. I’m not worried about that.

Leipold: Do we wish we had won a Stanley Cup in the first half of their contract life? Sure. Absolutely. Again, I can’t reinforce more that this changed our franchise. It changed everything about how people felt about us, about the commitment that we were making to winning the Cup. It takes a whole lot more than just two players to win a Cup. Their contribution to this organization is going to be 10, 15 years from now. We still plan to win the Cup. In fact, we plan to win it while they’re still with us. Everything we do now, it’s still all growing on the fact that we got these two guys, and it’s changed our franchise.

 

[Guttersniped]

Parise would've been in Philadelphia, Detroit or New York if they offered the most.

Papa Parise wanted a Kovalchuk like contract for Zach and I am convinced that the Kovalchuk hoopla pissed him off. Aside from the financial state of the organization there were definitely some hurt feelings over Zach being left hanging while the circus was going on over Kovalchuk...No question about it. I also think JP saw it as an indignity that they asked Zach to show up to that press conference as a show of support with no contract or ongoing talks.

JP believed that Kovalchuk contract should have been Zach's...That press conference should have been for Zach...it's not even speculation. He was outspoken about his son not being a priority before, during and after the Kovalchuk contract fiasco.

And right after the Kovalchuk contract they geared up for Free Agency...by firing his existing agent and hiring the FA specialist Newport Sports.

Zach was as good as gone in 2010.

Zach almost went to Pittsburgh, he cared about playing with a core that had high end talent and New Jersey didn’t have that.

He took less money to play with Suter.

 

[JimEIV]

His dad wasn’t sick yet. The Athletic had an article where they were both interviewed.

View attachment 741507

Halfway into Parise-Suter deals, here’s the full story of how it all went down

Those involved with the blockbuster signings in July 2012 share their memories of how Zach Parise and Ryan Suter ended up in Minnesota.

theathletic.com

Key part of here:










One of the articles themes is Suter and Parise and their agents didn’t actively work together in Free Agency before July 1st or right at the start on July 1st.

Obviously they could for sure plan on going to the same team, considering they were both up for massive contracts, but they had discussed from the beginning and it was a big factor with their eventual signings.

It was discussed before July 1st though.



And Suter wanted to play in the Midwest.



Suter has a phone call with Wild owner Craig Leopold and its love at first talk. This is one of my favorite parts because one of the reasons Guerin buys Suter’s ass out is he’s infamously super pals with Leopold, and if he had problem with a coach, GM, etc, he would go over their head to Leopold. (Suter is also infamously an asshole.)

MOST IMPORTANT ZACH POINT AND WHY HE WAS A GONER:



Yes, if he was weak-willed enough to let Suter bully him to go to Minnesota he was off to Pittsburgh because they had a great core. You know what team didn’t have a great core? The New Jersey Devils.

And then they told the Wild they both wanted to sign.










This story is another favorite part. (Suter had tears in his eyes says lawyer agent close to Chelios.)

Beta Parise asks to take less money so it could to Alpha Suter instead.


Zach turned down more money (and chance to screw up Pittsburgh’s cap future).



The aftermath:



And their Dads (and not winning the Cup)

Everyone of those quotes is about 2012 Free Agency and the situation surrounding those specific events...

What's left out is how we got there....and the 2009-10 season where Parise was practically begging for an extension for a reported 48 million....none of those quotes or descriptions reference the two years leading up to Parise's free agency...basically two years of no talks or offers while spending 100 million on Kovalchuk....if anyone thinks that wasn't a factor they're nuts

 

[Cheddabombs]

Just saw a pic of Severson from the Blue Jackets account and it ruined my day. I'll miss him. He may have been a goof sometimes but he was our goof

 

[Bleedred]

Completely agree. I can actually see a world where we extend Luke in 10-12 months to the identical contract that Jack received. Both brothers making 8x8.



Sykora actually didn't leave on bad terms. He didn't want to be traded! And we ended up beating him in the finals 11 months later anyway.

Not all of them left on bad terms (Albelin and Shanahan really didn’t) and a couple of them really only left on bad terms because of who they signed with. Gomez and Holik.

But there was some controversy around a foot injury Sykora had during the 2002 playoffs, where a veteran defenseman (I bet Stevens, others have guessed Daneyko) told him back at the team hotel that if he can walk across that lobby, he can play in that night’s game. He missed two of the four games that series with the injury. It seems some weren’t happy about him missing those games.

I keep forgetting Arnott also came back in the twilight of his career.

 

[MasterofGrond]

But on the short handed minutes I wonder how we are going to replace Graves PK minutes?

Graves was our #2 in minutes behind Marino with 2:24. Siegenthaler obviously moves up to the #2 but there is still 2&1/2 minutes average that needs to be filled. Miller didn't do very much PK in Dallas last year or really that much at all in his career. But I'm sure he'll factor in more this year than the 25 seconds he averaged last year.

Maybe Dougie gets some more PK time this year? He didn't kill penalties at all last year.

The team had a total of ~394 minutes of PK time last season, or 4:48 per game. This is 9:36 of PK time across D-men per game.

The distribution last year was (and this doesn't add up to 9;36 obviously because of different games played):

Marino 3
Graves 2:24
Siegs 2:14
Sevs 1:02
Smith 1:36 (Bahl :52)
Dougie 0:10


I this this season we're going to end up seeing something like (assuming the impossible perfect health and that the team doesn't start taking a bunch more penalties, which might happen actually because they were in the bottom part of the league in 22-23).

Marino 3
Siegs 3
Bahl 2
Miller 1
Luke + Dougie :30

Miller has played around a minute of PK time per game in multiple previous seasons (Vegas 18-18, Buffalo 20-21, 21-22), with excellent results those years. He didn't kill much last season, but that's mostly because Dallas rode their top PK guys (Lindell and Hankapaa) pretty hard, because they were also really good (worse than Miller in Buffalo, actually, but Miller was primarily against 2nd units in Buffalo, I suspect as he would be here).

 

[JimEIV]

The team had a total of ~394 minutes of PK time last season, or 4:48 per game. This is 9:36 of PK time across D-men per game.

The distribution last year was (and this doesn't add up to 9;36 obviously because of different games played):

Marino 3
Graves 2:24
Siegs 2:14
Sevs 1:02
Smith 1:36 (Bahl :52)
Dougie 0:10


I this this season we're going to end up seeing something like (assuming the impossible perfect health and that the team doesn't start taking a bunch more penalties, which might happen actually because they were in the bottom part of the league in 22-23).

Marino 3
Siegs 3
Bahl 2
Miller 1
Luke + Dougie :30

Miller has played around a minute of PK time per game in multiple previous seasons (Vegas 18-18, Buffalo 20-21, 21-22), with excellent results those years. He didn't kill much last season, but that's mostly because Dallas rode their top PK guys (Lindell and Hankapaa) pretty hard, because they were also really good (worse than Miller in Buffalo, actually, but Miller was primarily against 2nd units in Buffalo, I suspect as he would be here).

Maybe we'll get lucky and PP's will go down league wide next year

 

[Devils731]

Didn’t the Devils play Nemec on the PK in Utica? I seem to remember it being brought up since he was doing PK and not PP.

Do any of the Utica fans feel like they have a handle on how they thought he did with it?

Unlike the Devils even strength defensive system, I think the Devils PK system isn’t that difficult for the defenseman so I think new guys can pick it up fast. It’s a little more complicated for the forwards.

 

[Guttersniped]

Everyone of those quotes is about 2012 Free Agency and the situation surrounding those specific events...

What's left out is how we got there....and the 2009-10 season where Parise was practically begging for an extension for a reported 48 million....none of those quotes or descriptions reference the two years leading up to Parise's free agency...basically two years of no talks or offers while spending 100 million on Kovalchuk....if anyone thinks that wasn't a factor they're nuts

Lou lock up a top player with big money before he’s a UFA? Lou just didn’t do that, even after it led to player after player walking out the door. He finally changed his policy after Parise (when it matter for us.)

So I can’t speak to what fantasy solution for what would have happened there if Lou bothered to try to keep our star RFA in a timely matter.

You said Parise signed with the highest bidder, which was wrong.

And he left as UFA because he had the freedom to go to a better team with better cores. If you’re being objective then that’s the right decision, he probably should have stuck to Pittsburgh instead of letting Suter push him into signing with the Wild. (Again, they discussed playing together before July 1st, he was a goner because he was free to go.)

Not all of them left on bad terms (Albelin and Shanahan really didn’t) and a couple of them really only left on bad terms because of who they signed with. Gomez and Holik.

But there was some controversy around a foot injury Sykora had during the 2002 playoffs, where a veteran defenseman (I bet Stevens, others have guessed Daneyko) told him back at the team hotel that if he can walk across that lobby, he can play in that night’s game. He missed two of the four games that series with the injury. It seems some weren’t happy about him missing those games.

I keep forgetting Arnott also came back in the twilight of his career.

Holik very much left on bad terms because the arbitration hearing and what was said there. He got over it.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Yeah, god forbid someone do what they've worked their whole lives for, where they want, and make a shit ton of money doing it.

God forbid we have feelings towards a player and how they screwed over a team we root for!

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Holtz needs to be given an opportunity imo. Sure, if he sh*ts the bed in camp you don't just give him a spot, but I don't see that happening given his camp last year.

His pace is definitely his weakness right now, and I don't mean his skating (which is fine imo). I mean his decision making.

He wasn't up to NHL level decision making/pace wise last season, but I'm a firm believer that to get acclimated to the NHL's pace you have to play. Holtz has less than 30 NHL games under his belt and to get acclimated to the speed of the NHL you need more than that.

It's not a question of skill or abilities with Holtz, clearly imo. He needs to play to get used to the pace and speed of the league and to learn to process the game quicker.

It's also not just getting games but not getting micro-managed / benched / scratched for the smallest things. Dude has not been given a chance whatsoever.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Parise didn't screw us. He exercised his collectively bargained rights (after spending 8! years with the organization). If anybody dropped the ball there, it was the Devils. Turned out he did the team a favor by leaving, anyway. Would have been even more of a favor if the team had a competent GM who could read the writing on the wall and rebuilt when it was time, too.

Feel how you're gonna feel about the guy, you ain't gotta like him. but the score is what the score is.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I also wouldn't be surprised at a bridge if Luke has a (typical) inconsistent year, though. One year is not a lot of data and I can see Luke maybe not wanting to settle for a lower amount given how well his brothers have done (and how relatively underpaid they are).

I mean, he wouldn't get that much more even if he waited. He's not gunna get a 10-11m / year contract. I don't see a reason to wait on his side.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I think money was certainly a factor in Parise leaving, but it clearly wasn't the factor in him leaving. And it's pretty obvious from the quotes above that Ryan Suter is the one wearing the pants in that relationship.

That being said - after seeing Martin Brodeur in a St. Louis Blues jersey, Scott Gomez in a New York Rangers jersey Brian Rafalski in a Detroit Red Wings jersey, and Scott Niedermayer in an Anaheim Ducks jersey, I just simply can't hold grudges against these players anymore. My feelings cannot possibly be hurt any more than they have been. I'm numb to it at this point.

Parise went to Minnesota and it didn't matter for Minnesota, their homecoming was a colossal failure (at least on the ice, I'm sure ownership is happy with how many tickets and sweaters they sold). And it wouldn't have mattered to New Jersey if he stayed - Kovalchuk was going to leave for Russia whether Parise was here or not, Brodeur and Elias would have gone quietly into that long good night. DeBoer was going to fall on his sword for us, and the Schneider trade probably still happens regardless.

The only real difference is that Daly and Bettman would be even MORE pissed at us for cap circumvention after pulling that shit twice in back to back years. They would have looked for an excuse to dock us even more money and draft picks. And our rebuild likely would have taken longer to get off the ground due to having an untradeable albatross on our books for the foreseeable future.

 

[Triumph]

It's more fun to think Parise screwed us because that's the fun of sports.

 

[Blackjack]

Parise didn't screw us. He exercised his collectively bargained rights (after spending 8! years with the organization). If anybody dropped the ball there, it was the Devils. Turned out he did the team a favor by leaving, anyway. Would have been even more of a favor if the team had a competent GM who could read the writing on the wall and rebuilt when it was time, too.

Feel how you're gonna feel about the guy, you ain't gotta like him. but the score is what the score is.

I’ll just go back to never thinking about him at all like Don Draper.

He never won anything. No cups, no trophies, no Olympic gold. He’s not a hall of famer, he’ll be completely forgotten not long after he retires.

 

[Triumph]

I’ll just go back to never thinking about him at all like Don Draper.

He never won anything. No cups, no trophies, no Olympic gold. He’s not a hall of famer, he’ll be completely forgotten not long after he retires.

The only reason why Parise won't get into the Hall of Fame is because of the era he played in. A lot of worse forwards who played in higher scoring eras have gotten in.

 

[Blackjack]

The only reason why Parise won't get into the Hall of Fame is because of the era he played in. A lot of worse forwards who played in higher scoring eras have gotten in.

His career just wasn’t that good. He scored 94 and 82 points when he was 24 and 25 years old, then never scored 70 points again.

Even if you look at his full season pace in the years he was injured, he was never at a 70 point pace again. His 82 game scoring average for his career is 58 points. FIFTY EIGHT. Sorry, that’s not a hall of famer. In any era.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Can we get a full list of New Jersey Devils that had two stints with the team? I'll start. Please copy/paste or quote this list to add players that I forgot!

- Jason Arnott
- Petr Sykora
- Scott Gomez
- Bobby Holik
- Brendan Shanahan
- Tommy Albelein
- Steve Sullivan
- Alexi Ponikarovsky
- Claude Lemieux
- Stephan Richer
- Mike Rupp
- Nathan Bastian
- Scott Wedgewood
- Scott Clemmensen (3 stints)

 

[Blackjack]

Rolston

 

[JrFischer54]

Everyone of those quotes is about 2012 Free Agency and the situation surrounding those specific events...

What's left out is how we got there....and the 2009-10 season where Parise was practically begging for an extension for a reported 48 million....none of those quotes or descriptions reference the two years leading up to Parise's free agency...basically two years of no talks or offers while spending 100 million on Kovalchuk....if anyone thinks that wasn't a factor they're nuts

lou botching free agency what else is new.

 

[FinnishDevil]

Can we get a full list of New Jersey Devils that had two stints with the team? I'll start. Please copy/paste or quote this list to add players that I forgot!

- Jason Arnott
- Petr Sykora
- Scott Gomez
- Bobby Holik
- Brendan Shanahan
- Tommy Albelein
- Steve Sullivan
- Alexi Ponikarovsky
- Claude Lemieux
- Stephan Richer
- Mike Rupp
- Nathan Bastian
- Scott Wedgewood
- Scott Clemmensen (3 stints)

Anssi Salmela.

 

[Nubmer6]

Can we get a full list of New Jersey Devils that had two stints with the team? I'll start. Please copy/paste or quote this list to add players that I forgot!

- Jason Arnott
- Petr Sykora
- Scott Gomez
- Bobby Holik
- Brendan Shanahan
- Tommy Albelein
- Steve Sullivan
- Alexi Ponikarovsky
- Claude Lemieux
- Stephan Richer
- Mike Rupp
- Nathan Bastian
- Scott Wedgewood
- Scott Clemmensen (3 stints)

If you're going to count Bastian, do you count Urbom too? I guess he never played another NHL game for us.

Salmela did though.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

UPDATED LIST:

- Jason Arnott
- Petr Sykora
- Scott Gomez
- Bobby Holik
- Brendan Shanahan
- Tommy Albelein
- Steve Sullivan
- Alexi Ponikarovsky
- Claude Lemieux
- Stephan Richer
- Mike Rupp
- Nathan Bastian
- Scott Wedgewood
- Scott Clemmensen (3 stints)
- Brian Rolston
- Anssi Salmela

If you're going to count Bastian, do you count Urbom too? I guess he never played another NHL game for us.

Salmela did though.

No because Urbom never played another game for us. This list is for guys who played NHL games for us, then went and played NHL games elsewhere, then came back and played NHL games for us again.