Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Devs3cups]

Sanderson's new deal is potentially a good comparable for Luke's deal if he has a good season this year.

As I said in the Around The League thread, looking at our cap situation shortly, we're set up pretty nicely with the cap going up in the next few years, contracts expiring and the Kuok/Schhneids buyouts coming off the books. We should be able to set up our young pieces (Mercer, Luke, Nemec, etc.) fairly well.

 

[Bleedred]

Who gives a shit. He didn’t win anything here and he dragged out the entire situation and left the Devils with their dick in their hands after naming him captain and getting zero in return.

Part of it is on Lou, but Zach can f*** off too. He has every right to sign where he wants and as a fanbase we have a collective right to to hold it against him.

Not many elite players leave their organization in their prime with a massive deal on the table. He’s in the Tavares camp.

I'm 50/50 on how I feel about him leaving.

But after reading a perspective like this, I'm kind of on the f*** him wagon.

It also felt like he was butthurt over Kovalchuk getting a massive deal before he did, but he was clearly quoted after we were eliminated from the playoffs in 2010 that he hoped we could keep Kovalchuk because he could help us. So I don't know what to think there. Kovalchuk was a UFA on July 1st of 2010, while Parise was still a year away from being an RFA. We were eligible to sign him to a new long term deal the same exact day we were able to sign Kovalchuk to one, but Kovalchuk being a UFA had to take precedence. Zach wasn't in danger of being swept up by another team at any point in the summer of 2010 like Kovalchuk was before we signed him.

 

[Devs3cups]

I'm 50/50 on how I feel about him leaving.

But after reading a perspective like this, I'm kind of on the f*** him wagon.

It also felt like he was butthurt over Kovalchuk getting a massive deal before he did, but he was clearly quoted after we were eliminated from the playoffs in 2010 that he hoped we could keep Kovalchuk because he could help us. So I don't know what to think there. Kovalchuk was a UFA on July 1st of 2010, while Parise was still a year away from being an RFA. We were eligible to sign him to a new long term deal the same exact day we were able to sign Kovalchuk to one, but Kovalchuk being a UFA had to take precedence. Zach wasn't in danger of being swept up by another team at any point in the summer of 2010 like Kovalchuk was before we signed him.

When Zach signed that 1 year deal leading him straight to UFA, the writing was on the wall. I remember younger me being pretty devastated lol. It was obviously for the best.

 

[Bleedred]

Parise coming here today (which I know he's NOT) would be like the most Lou thing ever. Bringing back a player at the very end of their career, after they left on bad terms in some way or another.

We did exactly this with Gomez, Sykora, Shanahan, Holik and Claude Lemieux. Although Claude was still a good player as of his 2.0 stint. Gomez wound up being pretty good in his 2.0 stint, but we didn't exactly anticipate him being that good upon his last arrival, that's for sure. Same goes for Sykora.

Often times forgotten, Stephane Richer was another one we brought in for the reunion tour, and he really didn't have anything left in the tank at all.

We also did it with Tommy Albelin, although he seemed to stay on another 5 years after that.

One other guy that we brought in at the very end of his career and MANY years after his first Devils tenure (something like 16 years later) was Steve Sullivan, who we acquired at the 2013 trade deadline. Almost as long as the time between Shanahan's two stints.

 

[Bleedred]

When Zach signed that 1 year deal leading him straight to UFA, the writing was on the wall. I remember younger me being pretty devastated lol. It was obviously for the best.

I agree with you. The writing was certainly on the wall.

Now if you said this on here at the time. it did not go over well at all. People really grasped and used anything they could to talk themselves and everyone else into believing that this did not mean he was on his way out. From the fact that Zach was just coming off a major injury where he missed almost the entire season and we needed to see how he responded to that after getting a serious extension with term. And another was that this was just to get a deal done so that he's signed for this coming season and now that that is taken care of and out of the way, I'm sure a more longer term extension will eventually follow.

I didn't really argue this too much during that season, as there was no reason to really fuel all that negativity, but it was evident that he was probably not going to be here beyond that year, and that we were going into his final season as a Devil.

Where I really struck out though, was when I declared that no way he'll go to Minnesota, because they're a perennial loser (they certainly were at the time) and they've really done nothing in those 12 years, other than one been better than the Blue Jackets that came in the same year and that one Cinderella run to the conference finals 9 years earlier.

He did give us one clue about 6 months earlier when we played the Wild in Minnesota, that his dad would love it if he were to sign in Minnesota and play there.

 

[Bcap88]

Can’t fault Parise for wanting to be closer to his dying father.

I think the hate gets kicked up a little because kovalchuk dusted the devils the following year.

Went from Stanley cup finals to losing Parise and kovalchuk in basically a calendar year and being left with nothing

 

[Guttersniped]

Can’t fault Parise for wanting to be closer to his dying father.

I think the hate gets kicked up a little because kovalchuk dusted the devils the following year.

Went from Stanley cup finals to losing Parise and kovalchuk in basically a calendar year and being left with nothing

Parise and Suter went off to play together, they had interviews about that off-season a while back in the Athletic.

Minnesota was the team that worked for both them.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Who gives a shit. He didn’t win anything here and he dragged out the entire situation and left the Devils with their dick in their hands after naming him captain and getting zero in return.

Part of it is on Lou, but Zach can f*** off too. He has every right to sign where he wants and as a fanbase we have a collective right to to hold it against him.

Not many elite players leave their organization in their prime with a massive deal on the table. He’s in the Tavares camp.

We don't see eye to eye on much here, but spot on 100% here.

Can’t fault Parise for wanting to be closer to his dying father.

I think the hate gets kicked up a little because kovalchuk dusted the devils the following year.

Went from Stanley cup finals to losing Parise and kovalchuk in basically a calendar year and being left with nothing

Every Devils fan would've understood that but the way he handled it was still piss poor. But every Devils fan with a brain knew he was gone once he signed that 1 year RFA to UFA deal in 2011. And the writing on the wall was written even before that when Kovy got re-signed to that contract in 2010.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I agree with you. The writing was certainly on the wall.

Now if you said this on here at the time. it did not go over well at all. People really grasped and used anything they could to talk themselves and everyone else into believing that this did not mean he was on his way out. From the fact that Zach was just coming off a major injury where he missed almost the entire season and we needed to see how he responded to that after getting a serious extension with term. And another was that this was just to get a deal done so that he's signed for this coming season and now that that is taken care of and out of the way, I'm sure a more longer term extension will eventually follow.

I didn't really argue this too much during that season, as there was no reason to really fuel all that negativity, but it was evident that he was probably not going to be here beyond that year, and that we were going into his final season as a Devil.

Where I really struck out though, was when I declared that no way he'll go to Minnesota, because they're a perennial loser (they certainly were at the time) and they've really done nothing in those 12 years, other than one been better than the Blue Jackets that came in the same year and that one Cinderella run to the conference finals 9 years earlier.

He did give us one clue about 6 months earlier when we played the Wild in Minnesota, that his dad would love it if he were to sign in Minnesota and play there.

This is where most of this fanbase's negativity come from Bratt's talks too btw. It was literally setting up like that to a tee. Thank god Bratt's current gf/probably future wife is from NJ and probably gotten in his ear and told him to cut some of the shit

 

[Aurinko]

Parise and Suter went off to play together, they had interviews about that off-season a while back in the Athletic.

Minnesota was the team that worked for both them.

Financially it worked out for them, gameplay wise I was disappointed (did watch a lot of Wild games and all of the playoff games during their stay). Neither is currently very popular and I'm guessing it is more because they went after the big money than it is them being bad.

 

[BurntToast]

Correct me if I am wrong.

I felt like the Parise “wanting to play close to home” was a over blown narrative. At the time (and now) those were absurd contracts, but a close to home story is better. Its sucks his dad got sick, but I don’t think that was known at the time of the signing. In hindsight it has been used as his argument for why he left.

The Devils were bad for a while after he left, but with Zachs personal and health issues, I am not sure he would of helped much.

 

[Better Call Sal]

The underlying factor at that time that didn’t really come out until he sold the team was Vanderbeek. The team’s financial situation under him was not great to put it kindly, and I think it helped steer Zach away as well.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Sanderson's new deal is potentially a good comparable for Luke's deal if he has a good season this year.

As I said in the Around The League thread, looking at our cap situation shortly, we're set up pretty nicely with the cap going up in the next few years, contracts expiring and the Kuok/Schhneids buyouts coming off the books. We should be able to set up our young pieces (Mercer, Luke, Nemec, etc.) fairly well.

I have a hard time believing Luke won't totally eclipse Sanderson on his ELC. I like Sanderson but his early returns thus far have been....not really warranting either 8M AAV or 8 years in term.

This isn't a Jack Hughes situation where his underlyings are super elite and it's only a matter of time before he breaks through. Sanderson has been playing at a mid-pairing level, which isn't bad at all. But they're betting VERY heavily on him taking a huge leap forward and I'm not sure the data justifies it.

Maybe he will, he's got the talent and the pedigree, and we all know defensemen take longer to develop. Ottawa brass are clearly convinced that he's the guy and are being proactive about this. But that's a pretty huge gamble to make for a guy that's played ONE season with 'ehhh' results.

 

[JimEIV]

I like Sanderson a lot. I don't know if he'll be worth his contract but it's pretty awesome that a 20 year old rookie Defenseman led an NHL club in short handed minutes. The kid averaged over 3 minutes of short handed time per game with 252 minutes and 21:55 ATOI

 

[JimEIV]

The underlying factor at that time that didn’t really come out until he sold the team was Vanderbeek. The team’s financial situation under him was not great to put it kindly, and I think it helped steer Zach away as well.

We didn't want to believe it while he owed the team... plenty of news stories and anecdotal evidence was out there and we here attacked and refuted anyone that had anything to say about the financial situation of the team.

 

[JimEIV]

But on the short handed minutes I wonder how we are going to replace Graves PK minutes?

Graves was our #2 in minutes behind Marino with 2:24. Siegenthaler obviously moves up to the #2 but there is still 2&1/2 minutes average that needs to be filled. Miller didn't do very much PK in Dallas last year or really that much at all in his career. But I'm sure he'll factor in more this year than the 25 seconds he averaged last year.

Maybe Dougie gets some more PK time this year? He didn't kill penalties at all last year.

 

[Better Call Sal]

We didn't want to believe it while he owed the team... plenty of news stories and anecdotal evidence was out there and we here attacked and refuted anyone that had anything to say about the financial situation of the team.

I think many of us (myself included) found it hard to believe based on the contracts that continued to be offered, Kovy's prime among them. I also think Vanderbeek being a fan like one of us bought him a lot of goodwill with the fanbase until it became painfully obvious he was in over his head.

 

[Triumph]

The underlying factor at that time that didn’t really come out until he sold the team was Vanderbeek. The team’s financial situation under him was not great to put it kindly, and I think it helped steer Zach away as well.

I don't know how it took so long to get to this part of it. It's possible that even without that, he would've left regardless, but Vanderbeek's inability to make a big front-loaded offer made things so much more difficult.

 

[tailfins]

I think there were a lot of factors in the Parise departure: finances, timing, feeling valued.

One thing I wonder: could the Devils have tried to sign Suter? The Devils D needed the help. But, it would have meant three players (Kovy, Parise, Suter) taking up ~30% of the cap.

Suter said no to playing out east, but I wonder if that could have changed if Lou tried to sell him on NJ.

Edit: of course, the Vanderbeek financial situation may have eliminated the possibility of any Suter offer.

 

[JimEIV]

Parise would've been in Philadelphia, Detroit or New York if they offered the most.

Papa Parise wanted a Kovalchuk like contract for Zach and I am convinced that the Kovalchuk hoopla pissed him off. Aside from the financial state of the organization there were definitely some hurt feelings over Zach being left hanging while the circus was going on over Kovalchuk...No question about it. I also think JP saw it as an indignity that they asked Zach to show up to that press conference as a show of support with no contract or ongoing talks.

JP believed that Kovalchuk contract should have been Zach's...That press conference should have been for Zach...it's not even speculation. He was outspoken about his son not being a priority before, during and after the Kovalchuk contract fiasco.

And right after the Kovalchuk contract they geared up for Free Agency...by firing his existing agent and hiring the FA specialist Newport Sports.

Zach was as good as gone in 2010.

 

[glenwo2]

First line? Who is he playing with? Novo got it right he just labeled it wrong.

Timo and Nico?

(or is this one of those jokes that whoosh straight over my head as usual?)

 

[Nubmer6]

Timo and Nico?

(or is this one of those jokes that whoosh straight over my head as usual?)

Whoosh!!!

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Sanderson's new deal is potentially a good comparable for Luke's deal if he has a good season this year.

As I said in the Around The League thread, looking at our cap situation shortly, we're set up pretty nicely with the cap going up in the next few years, contracts expiring and the Kuok/Schhneids buyouts coming off the books. We should be able to set up our young pieces (Mercer, Luke, Nemec, etc.) fairly well.

Completely agree. I can actually see a world where we extend Luke in 10-12 months to the identical contract that Jack received. Both brothers making 8x8.

Parise coming here today (which I know he's NOT) would be like the most Lou thing ever. Bringing back a player at the very end of their career, after they left on bad terms in some way or another.

We did exactly this with Gomez, Sykora, Shanahan, Holik and Claude Lemieux. Although Claude was still a good player as of his 2.0 stint. Gomez wound up being pretty good in his 2.0 stint, but we didn't exactly anticipate him being that good upon his last arrival, that's for sure. Same goes for Sykora.

Sykora actually didn't leave on bad terms. He didn't want to be traded! And we ended up beating him in the finals 11 months later anyway.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Timo and Nico?

(or is this one of those jokes that whoosh straight over my head as usual?)

The point is that the line number labeling is irrelevant. Our top two lines are going to get a ton of ice time, doesn't really matter who is considered first, second, third, etc. Mercer playing with Nico and Timo is likely. Just as Toffoli is likely to play with Bratt and Jack.

It's all just speculating anyway.

 

[njdevils1982]

Parise would've been in Philadelphia, Detroit or New York if they offered the most.

Papa Parise wanted a Kovalchuk like contract for Zach and I am convinced that the Kovalchuk hoopla pissed him off. Aside from the financial state of the organization there were definitely some hurt feelings over Zach being left hanging while the circus was going on over Kovalchuk...No question about it. I also think JP saw it as an indignity that they asked Zach to show up to that press conference as a show of support with no contract or ongoing talks.

JP believed that Kovalchuk contract should have been Zach's...That press conference should have been for Zach...it's not even speculation. He was outspoken about his son not being a priority before, during and after the Kovalchuk contract fiasco.

And right after the Kovalchuk contract they geared up for Free Agency...by firing his existing agent and hiring the FA specialist Newport Sports.

Zach was as good as gone in 2010.

don f***ing meehan